lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Pro-zone was loss making anyway, and he certainly didn't walk away with any losses, the only person to make any money out of the club.
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Pro-zone was loss making anyway, and he certainly didn't walk away with any losses, the only person to make any money out of the club.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
He also announced sisu had done a deal for half the stadium and would have the full stadium in weeks.
3 months ago
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
after reading the esteemed posts from all, would it not be pertinent to throw weight behind the 'sky blue trust' who, it would seem/appear, have the best interests of CCFC as their mantra ?
especially considering that they crave input from professionals with a financial and/or legal knowledge,
as pointed out, we do not know what the endgame is, but i fear it would be to the detriment of our club,
PUSB
especially considering that they crave input from professionals with a financial and/or legal knowledge,
as pointed out, we do not know what the endgame is, but i fear it would be to the detriment of our club,
PUSB
Astute
Well-Known Member
So this legal action that has been taken. What is it?
Could it be a legal letter threatening action? If a solicitor sends you a letter within the law it can be counted as a legal letter. If the letter threatens legal proceedings then legal action has started. Don't mean anything serious yet........
Could it be a legal letter threatening action? If a solicitor sends you a letter within the law it can be counted as a legal letter. If the letter threatens legal proceedings then legal action has started. Don't mean anything serious yet........
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
It's 'time' they are buying and jockeying for position. ACL are in a tight corner.
I have no idea what the full terms of the lease are and unless you have seen it, no one commenting on here can make any valid argument.
I would have thought a court would only make a judgement to uphold the escrow account and make that good within a period of time. As asbyjan said the rent has been paid. As for the Olympic 'receipts' - again will depend on what that lease says.
Some precedent was set with Ipswich and previous owners who signed that lease on behalf of CCFC are no longer around are they?
Frankly the one thing set in stone is that they will eventually pay the rent or there would be no point in continuing as a football club today or tomorrow if they meant never to pay it. ACL operate with the council looking over their shoulder and the council wanted CCFC to show new commitment and inward investment so talks could be actuated about the stadium shares and rent. So far the club have shown lots of commitment to doing just that. We were all expecting a drab transfer window yet we have sold and bought a plenty.
Storm in a tea cup. Part of every day business. It's not a domestic household lease and can't be argued in the same sphere.
I have no idea what the full terms of the lease are and unless you have seen it, no one commenting on here can make any valid argument.
I would have thought a court would only make a judgement to uphold the escrow account and make that good within a period of time. As asbyjan said the rent has been paid. As for the Olympic 'receipts' - again will depend on what that lease says.
Some precedent was set with Ipswich and previous owners who signed that lease on behalf of CCFC are no longer around are they?
Frankly the one thing set in stone is that they will eventually pay the rent or there would be no point in continuing as a football club today or tomorrow if they meant never to pay it. ACL operate with the council looking over their shoulder and the council wanted CCFC to show new commitment and inward investment so talks could be actuated about the stadium shares and rent. So far the club have shown lots of commitment to doing just that. We were all expecting a drab transfer window yet we have sold and bought a plenty.
Storm in a tea cup. Part of every day business. It's not a domestic household lease and can't be argued in the same sphere.
RichieGunns
New Member
No point arguing about it.
We all know SISU need to buy the ground. It's been discussed before and it'll no doubt be discussed again.
What ACL do in the next few months will, i believe, determin the future of our club.
I personally hope that Hoffman hasn't been blowing hot air and that these Chinese/Japanese investors are on the horizon.
But until that happens, ill just enjoy watching my club play and giving the support they need!
We all know SISU need to buy the ground. It's been discussed before and it'll no doubt be discussed again.
What ACL do in the next few months will, i believe, determin the future of our club.
I personally hope that Hoffman hasn't been blowing hot air and that these Chinese/Japanese investors are on the horizon.
But until that happens, ill just enjoy watching my club play and giving the support they need!
Astute
Well-Known Member
From what we have seen there are no investors, but they are still looking for them.
Whilst we are Div3 not many will want us. The Prem is where the money is. If we go up this season we would be a more attractive purchase. A possible 1 season away from making serious money. ATM we are at least 2 seasons from it, and the amount of money wanted for us would be seen as excessive.
Whilst we are Div3 not many will want us. The Prem is where the money is. If we go up this season we would be a more attractive purchase. A possible 1 season away from making serious money. ATM we are at least 2 seasons from it, and the amount of money wanted for us would be seen as excessive.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Bang on with Richardson. As for Sisu, they are trying to reverse that failure by selling any decent player we have. So it's catch 22. We have to sell because of Richardson's failures, but people blame Sisu without thinking how the situation arose in the first place.
I think we all agree in how this problem started but it doesn t make every owner from here on in free from blame. People have to take some responsibility or this club will die. Otherwise Sisu become to Richardson as thorn is to Sisu. "literally working with their hands tied behind their back" " nobody could do any better" etc etc
I'mARealWizard
New Member
Still some way to go to match that 80+ pages of the Portsmouth thread... :slap:
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I agree Macca. However, what I don't agree with is when the blame gets placed solely with SISU. They've certainly not helped, but they weren't the cause of our problems.
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skyblueman
New Member
ACL won't let it go as they need this income to make their business viable - so any rent reduction comes straight off their bottom line - they will have factored in the rent from CCFC into all of their future budgets as a dead cert - not wise in the football world.
For the size and cost of building the ground the rent is fair to be honest - if we were in the upper league it wouldn't be an issue at all - but were not and income has dived as a result - NOT ACLs fault at all.
Forget all the blame games - Bottom line is the rent has to be paid as long as the agreement remains in place - only way out is to put the club into Administration
ACL will be looking at the other costs the club IS paying, specifically wages, and to be fair to them if it's millions a year and thats ok then pay the god damn rent!
CCFC HAVE to pay - SISU HAVE to fund it one way or another or walk away - end of
It's a dire position to be in as none of know their intentions
ACL should maybe look at a deferment on some of the rent in the short term to help the club's cash flow - alternatively open up the terms so the club gets the benefit of income from more of the facilities - that's as far as we can reasonable expect them to go
I do not hold SISU responsible for the original mess - we all know who is to blame for that - but I resent hugely the gamble they are now taking with the club - legally theirs but morally ours
If you really want to blame someone blame the ones who are at the root of all this financial mess in football - blame SKY - they are the ones that have ruined the national game - save for a handful of elite top clubs the rest of the teams have been left with shattered dreams and huge unsustainable debts
For the size and cost of building the ground the rent is fair to be honest - if we were in the upper league it wouldn't be an issue at all - but were not and income has dived as a result - NOT ACLs fault at all.
Forget all the blame games - Bottom line is the rent has to be paid as long as the agreement remains in place - only way out is to put the club into Administration
ACL will be looking at the other costs the club IS paying, specifically wages, and to be fair to them if it's millions a year and thats ok then pay the god damn rent!
CCFC HAVE to pay - SISU HAVE to fund it one way or another or walk away - end of
It's a dire position to be in as none of know their intentions
ACL should maybe look at a deferment on some of the rent in the short term to help the club's cash flow - alternatively open up the terms so the club gets the benefit of income from more of the facilities - that's as far as we can reasonable expect them to go
I do not hold SISU responsible for the original mess - we all know who is to blame for that - but I resent hugely the gamble they are now taking with the club - legally theirs but morally ours
If you really want to blame someone blame the ones who are at the root of all this financial mess in football - blame SKY - they are the ones that have ruined the national game - save for a handful of elite top clubs the rest of the teams have been left with shattered dreams and huge unsustainable debts
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Bottom line is that for the good of both businesses (CCFC & ACL) this matter needs to be resolved sooner rather than later. Both businesses cannot plan properly at the moment, one doesn't know its income the other doesn't know its costs. There is room, I believe, for a compromise that will suit both parties but that requires flexibility and openness by the all concerned..... not something SISU are known for.
BUT just to be clear even if CCFC paid no rent they would still be making losses of a couple of million at the moment ..... unless they are able to sell players to finance operations. Also the market rent of the facilities enjoyed by CCFC are not going to be cheap unless ACL agrees to discount below market value - and why should they do that ? indeed given both charity and council have to prove worth in their investments how can they do that ?
just some previous thoughts on value of the rent etc ....
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/18691-city-protest?p=229335#post229335
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threa...e-players-are-needed-quot?p=218774#post218774
there is plenty to talk about so why are they not talking ?
BUT just to be clear even if CCFC paid no rent they would still be making losses of a couple of million at the moment ..... unless they are able to sell players to finance operations. Also the market rent of the facilities enjoyed by CCFC are not going to be cheap unless ACL agrees to discount below market value - and why should they do that ? indeed given both charity and council have to prove worth in their investments how can they do that ?
just some previous thoughts on value of the rent etc ....
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/18691-city-protest?p=229335#post229335
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threa...e-players-are-needed-quot?p=218774#post218774
there is plenty to talk about so why are they not talking ?
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
What is the market value of the Stadium without the club though?
How much would ACL get as sponsorship income from Ricoh if there was no professional football club in residence, and the exposure that it gets as a consequence?
You could easily make a case that whatever sponsorship income that ACL receive is as a direct result of CCFC being there, take them away and they're down whatever amount Ricoh pay(Don't know the figures, but expect a considerable amount).
Probably had to knock some of that income off due to the Olympics and the rebranding to City of Coventry Stadium anyway.
Lord_Nampil
Well-Known Member
Here's a question, did we pay the same amount of rent pre December 2007?? Before SISU took over
Lord_Nampil
Well-Known Member
Here's a question, did we pay the same amount of rent pre December 2007?? Before SISU took over
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
could argue that the only positive press that the Ricoh gets is from anything but the football club LS. Certainly the Ricoh doesnt get things like the Olympics, the Rugby World Cup, the various pop concerts, the exhibition or event income, the hotel or casino because of CCFC being there. Ricoh get a fair amount of advertising from the stadium through a lot of stuff totally unrelated to CCFC. In fact you could argue with all the uncertainty surrounding CCFC/SISU that the connection with the club tarnishes the Ricoh brand.
We are also now League 1 and the exposure that CCFC gets like it or not will now be a bit more restricted. A bigger chunk of the exposure will now be associated to other events and activities
No one involved wants CCFC gone ...... they/we just need them to be successful and pay their way.
not a chartered surveyor but say the rent for the CCFC used parts of the stadium were £519k like in my link above and a rent roll multiple of 20 that would value the stadium part alone at £10m ...... thats not unreasonable (is it ?), and probably holds if CCFC not there (but may well be more with CCFC in place). Whole site say is worth £20m on the long lease..... and a lot more freehold
We are also now League 1 and the exposure that CCFC gets like it or not will now be a bit more restricted. A bigger chunk of the exposure will now be associated to other events and activities
No one involved wants CCFC gone ...... they/we just need them to be successful and pay their way.
not a chartered surveyor but say the rent for the CCFC used parts of the stadium were £519k like in my link above and a rent roll multiple of 20 that would value the stadium part alone at £10m ...... thats not unreasonable (is it ?), and probably holds if CCFC not there (but may well be more with CCFC in place). Whole site say is worth £20m on the long lease..... and a lot more freehold
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Have seen nothing to say we didnt ......... it is still the same lease that CCFC originally signed when moving in to the stadium.
The only thing that goes through my mind is a recollection that the club couldnt pay its rent before in 2006 or 2007 and that the rent was reduced for a period ............ but i might be totally wrong on that
BigadamL
Well-Known Member
I don't think it bothers SISU one bit about going to court, they are a very hard hitting hedge fund company who are prob in court for their other little companies more than often.
If SISU were worried they wouldn't of let it get tm this stage. Somehow SISU will win in court because this is what they do!
I wish it wasn't the case but I can't see anything else happening
If SISU were worried they wouldn't of let it get tm this stage. Somehow SISU will win in court because this is what they do!
I wish it wasn't the case but I can't see anything else happening
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
this sounds dubious to me, I am sure the agreement would have conflict resolution and possibly arbitration clause before going down the legal route.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
think it is wrong to assume that there is no similar expertise on the side of ACL etc. They will bring people in to deal with this they wont deal with it themselves
skyblueman
New Member
Would I be right in thinking the old CCFC Finance Director works for ACL?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I don't think it bothers SISU one bit about going to court, they are a very hard hitting hedge fund company who are prob in court for their other little companies more than often.
If SISU were worried they wouldn't of let it get tm this stage. Somehow SISU will win in court because this is what they do!
I wish it wasn't the case but I can't see anything else happening
It costs SISU money to go to court, doesn't look good for their investors.
Have some idea we payed more than £1.2 m. on move in ,no link though ,maybe something in one of Fletchers interviews ,£2m. pa seems to resonate .Wonder if the contractors £400k.penalty for late completion bares any relationship to the rent we were paying,and in fact got passed onto the club through ACL?:thinking about:
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
i believe so .... guy called John Street .... joined in 2011 and not sure that is to ACL advantage really..... there has been a lot of changes etc since he left CCFC
skyblueman
New Member
Think that will give ACL a pretty good insight into how it all operated until relatively recently - might be that he was actually the guy who signed the rent agreement - point is I think with him inside ACL it will be difficult for CCFC to claim they were hoodwinked somehow - think ACL will be very well prepared for this action
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
fair point skyblueman
coundonskyblue
New Member
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...r-unpaid-rent-for-ricoh-arena-92746-31585658/
What has happened to Fisher?
He didnt once use the phrase 'normal business practice'
What has happened to Fisher?
He didnt once use the phrase 'normal business practice'
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
On the QT, they got paid ASAP, using CHAPS, AFAIK.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I think you would find the charge is set at £1.2m for CCFC usage but they are allowed to pay it over 12 months.... but am guessing
skyblueman
New Member
Yes OSB bound to be that
