Oh Jeremy Corbyn (2 Viewers)

[Astute]

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. You're criticising Corbyn for pushing the government to follow the result of the vote. Irrespective of his personal stance if the next day he'd started saying we should ignore the vote you would have criticised him for that as well.

I expect those who run and help run the party to be up front with their views. It is no good just jumping on the winner each time after the event. I want to see passion even if I don't agree with what they say. I want there to be something I can get behind.

 

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[clint van damme]

No I just find him a hypocrite. He hates Europe with a passion and should have campaigned to leave rather than abandon one of his life long principals just to keep the rewards and benefits of his job.

I recently read a Q and A with Yanis Varoufakis (I'll try and find link later), which seemed to suggest that Corbyn and McDonnell were now in favour of remain. Either way, it would help if he had stated his position more clearly, I agree. That applies to several others as well. It's strange that you don't seem to hold Boris in similar contempt for his equally hypocritical position.

Especially when his change of heart was clearly motivated by ambition.

 

[Ian1779]

I expect those who run and help run the party to be up front with their views. It is no good just jumping on the winner each time after the event. I want to see passion even if I don't agree with what they say. I want there to be something I can get behind.

If you were Corbyn what would you do? Surely the first part of representing the electorate is that you have to honour the decision that they have made.

I voted to remain but you have to accept the will of people no matter how much you agree with or disagree. I could never support another referendum, and if there was I would probably switch my vote.

 

[Astute]

If you were Corbyn what would you do?

Resign as I would know that there are much better people in the Labour party.

If I wasn't prepared to resign I would replace my pals with people who would take the party forward. It is shocking how Abbott is still there.

 

[Sick Boy]

Resign as I would know that there are much better people in the Labour party.

If I wasn't prepared to resign I would replace my pals with people who would take the party forward. It is shocking how Abbott is still there.

As someone who likes to go on about democracy, it seems you don't like it when it doesn't suit you. He clearly has the backing of Labour voters. It wasn't long ago that you were calling for Blair II to come along.

 

[Sick Boy]

I recently read a Q and A with Yanis Varoufakis (I'll try and find link later), which seemed to suggest that Corbyn and McDonnell were now in favour of remain. Either way, it would help if he had stated his position more clearly, I agree. That applies to several others as well. It's strange that you don't seem to hold Boris in similar contempt for his equally hypocritical position.

Especially when his change of heart was clearly motivated by ambition.

He is never going to condemn the likes of Johnson and his pals

 

[clint van damme]

He is never going to condemn the likes of Johnson and his pals

I've found the article:
Yanis Varoufakis: ‘I would like to live in a world where we’re all privileged’

here is the bit I was referring to:

"Do you think in his heart Jeremy Corbyn was a Remainer?
I believe he was persuaded by the arguments of those like John McDonnell and myself. There is no incongruity between not wanting to enter the EU and saying that once you’re in, getting out is not a good idea. The criticism that he was not passionate about the EU is ludicrous. No one can be passionate about the EU. We criticise Europe fiercely but we’re not proposing to exit it. I think that’s the position Jeremy Corbyn converted to in the end."

I think it's irrelevant really after today I think the Labour party will either oust Corbyn or split over the custom union amendment vote.
If they get a pro European leader, (maybe Starmer or Umanna), I can see a few tories defecting. Anna Soubry made some very scathing comments and I think she was right.
If there isn't some sort of pro EU Labour party to support a lot of Labour voters will get behind the Lib Dems who have set there pro European stall out from day 1.

Edit: Just seen that Starmer voted with tories. Surprised at that.

Big trouble in both camps but I think particularly Labour. Although yet another Theresa fuck up when she was Home secretary has come to light today with the forensic evidence scandal. Interesting times!

 

[Astute]

As someone who likes to go on about democracy, it seems you don't like it when it doesn't suit you. He clearly has the backing of Labour voters. It wasn't long ago that you were calling for Blair II to come along.

Would you like to explain this?

And I said someone with the charisma of Bliar. But someone without the lies of Bliar. How is that asking for a Bliar ll?

So what have I said against democracy? Absolutely nothing. But you as usual twist the truth. Do you think Abbott is doing a good job? Do you think she should keep her position? Do you think that she could be losing Labour votes?

Oh no you can't be. Because if you did it would be undemocratic

 

[Sick Boy]

Would you like to explain this?

And I said someone with the charisma of Bliar. But someone without the lies of Bliar. How is that asking for a Bliar ll?

So what have I said against democracy? Absolutely nothing. But you as usual twist the truth. Do you think Abbott is doing a good job? Do you think she should keep her position? Do you think that she could be losing Labour votes?

Oh no you can't be. Because if you did it would be undemocratic

Hahaha are you on the wind up? You just said that a party leader and MP should resign from their position because you don't like them. Hahaha

 

[Astute]

Hahaha are you on the wind up? You just said that a party leader and MP should resign from their position because you don't like them. Hahaha

Trust you to have your own version.

Is your next version Abbott for PM as she always does a good job?

 

[chiefdave]

And I said someone with the charisma of Bliar.

IMO the party should have got behind Corbyn and lined up a more 'media friendly' replacement.

They were never going to win the last election, would have required a huge swing. They could have had someone waiting in the wings to take over who was to the left but without the baggage. Reckon Corbyn would have gone for that and stood down after a general election defeat.

Once they started plotting against you're only going to make him and his supporters more determined to stay.

 

[Astute]

IMO the party should have got behind Corbyn and lined up a more 'media friendly' replacement.

They were never going to win the last election, would have required a huge swing. They could have had someone waiting in the wings to take over who was to the left but without the baggage. Reckon Corbyn would have gone for that and stood down after a general election defeat.

Once they started plotting against you're only going to make him and his supporters more determined to stay.

Not stay in the EU though.

 

[skybluetony176]

IMO the party should have got behind Corbyn and lined up a more 'media friendly' replacement.

They were never going to win the last election, would have required a huge swing. They could have had someone waiting in the wings to take over who was to the left but without the baggage. Reckon Corbyn would have gone for that and stood down after a general election defeat.

Once they started plotting against you're only going to make him and his supporters more determined to stay.

Although to be fair if the party had have rallied behind him he may just have won. Not a landslide but maybe by enough. The bickering within the party made them unelectable in many people’s eyes.

 

[clint van damme]

Although to be fair if the party had have rallied behind him he may just have won. Not a landslide but maybe by enough. The bickering within the party made them unelectable in many people’s eyes.

and that's the difference with the tories. They are permanently at war with each other but they will put it all behind them during an election campaign and do anything, and I mean anything, to win.

 

[Astute]

Although to be fair if the party had have rallied behind him he may just have won. Not a landslide but maybe by enough. The bickering within the party made them unelectable in many people’s eyes.

Their dodgy past did more damage than anything else.

 

[oakey]

If you were Corbyn what would you do? Surely the first part of representing the electorate is that you have to honour the decision that they have made.

I voted to remain but you have to accept the will of people no matter how much you agree with or disagree. I could never support another referendum, and if there was I would probably switch my vote.

With the greatest respect I couldn't disagree more. This is nonsensical and certainly does not respect democracy. We vote regularly for good reasons, largely so that we can change direction when we are poorly governed. The idea that you should stick to a decision even when a majority subsequently believe it to be a mistake is fatalist not rational.
At the risk of falling into Godwin's law recall that Hitler was democratically elected and held several referendums.
If the majority of Germans had come to their senses could they not overturn his election and cancel the laws enacted by his referendums?
I am happy to accept Brexit if the majority of voters are still happy to leave but if public opinion shifts it can, indeed ought, to be reversed.
Sadly, I think the Tory party has behaved shamefully by giving in to the rabid Right wingers and have allowed Farage to get his own way. Then having promised a referendum (by 2020) they arrogantly held it at the worst possible time, allowed their cabinet to campaign on both sides of the debate, and are now failing to deliver the straightforward exit which was promised. The rest of the world think Britain has taken leave of its senses.

 

[Astute]

Not what you would expect from the Guardian.

Such is the poverty of Tory ideas that they deny poverty even exists | Zoe Williams

 

[clint van damme]

Not what you would expect from the Guardian.

Such is the poverty of Tory ideas that they deny poverty even exists | Zoe Williams

do you disagree with it?

 

[Astute]

do you disagree with it?

FFS why do you always have a dig at my posts even when you agree with them? And then in a day or two you will say I only ever defend the Tories.

 

[clint van damme]

FFS why do you always have a dig at my posts even when you agree with them? And then in a day or two you will say I only ever defend the Tories.

how was it a dig, don't be so paranoid FFS.

 

[chiefdave]

Not what you would expect from the Guardian.

Such is the poverty of Tory ideas that they deny poverty even exists | Zoe Williams

Interesting article. We've seen people say similar on here, particular that those less well off are just lazy and if you work hard you'll be fine.

There was a long interview with Saatchii a few months back, think it was on Radio 4. He's worked on recent Conservative campaigns and when asked why he thought certain demographics voted Conservative despite their polices being highly detrimental to those demographics. h

He said it was a deliberate strategy to to push that the poor, unemployed, disabled etc were just lazy and living at others expense and that anyone could be hugely wealthy they just need to keep working and get their break.

He likened it to X-Factor where people who clearly can't sing a note audition totally believing they will be the next big thing if they just get a lucky break because that's what they've been programmed to believe.

 

[oakey]

I agree about careerist politicians yes. I would say it's fair to say that whatever you think of him, that's not an accusation that can be levelled at Corbyn.

Evidence? I couldn't disagree more. Corbyn is the very epitome of any definition of a career politician.
This 'career politician' is just a lazy smear. The majority could earn much more in other jobs but have chosen a career of public service. I include Tories, who I generally find objectionable. Who would want to be a politician?

 

[Astute]

how was it a dig, don't be so paranoid FFS.

So you didn't jump straight on my back?

If it had been posted by one of your pro EU mates the back patting would have been immediate. But because I look at both sides I immediately get questioned if I agree with what I posted. If I didn't agree with it I would have called it bullshit.

But hey ho. It doesn't go with what some try to say about me being a Tory even though nobody can ever find something complementary that I have ever said about them.

 

[clint van damme]

So you didn't jump straight on my back?

If it had been posted by one of your pro EU mates the back patting would have been immediate. But because I look at both sides I immediately get questioned if I agree with what I posted. If I didn't agree with it I would have called it bullshit.

But hey ho. It doesn't go with what some try to say about me being a Tory even though nobody can ever find something complementary that I have ever said about them.

Again. It was a question but read into it what you want.

 

[clint van damme]

Evidence? I couldn't disagree more. Corbyn is the very epitome of any definition of a career politician.
This 'career politician' is just a lazy smear. The majority could earn much more in other jobs but have chosen a career of public service. I include Tories, who I generally find objectionable. Who would want to be a politician?

Being a career politician isn't just about money. It's about ambition, power and ego.
Boris didn't stab one of his best friends in the back and do a complete U-turn on Europe because of money.

 

[Astute]

Again. It was a question but read into it what you want.

That wouldn't have been a question for any of your fellow back patting mates who love the EU and love Corbyn although he hates the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

That wouldn't have been a question for any of your fellow back patting mates who love the EU and love Corbyn although he hates the EU.

Not as much as you it seems
Jeremy Corbyn says he would vote remain in a second EU referendum

 

[Astute]

Not as much as you it seems
Jeremy Corbyn says he would vote remain in a second EU referendum

Normal point scoring against each other.

Labour would take Britain out of the EU single market, Jeremy Corbyn says

 

[Sick Boy]

Normal point scoring against each other.

Labour would take Britain out of the EU single market, Jeremy Corbyn says

Haha touche. I expect that JC will come out as being anti-Brexit over the coming months. A Corbynista I know claims it has all been a masterstroke and he has been against Brexit the whole time. I'm not so certain myself and he refuses to listen to me about his anti EU past.

 

[clint van damme]

That wouldn't have been a question for any of your fellow back patting mates who love the EU and love Corbyn although he hates the EU.

normally when someone post an article they make a comment about it but you didn't really comment so I was just asking did you disagree with it. Like I said, read more into it if you want, I'm saying no more on it.

 

[Astute]

Haha touche. I expect that JC will come out as being anti-Brexit over the coming months. A Corbynista I know claims it has all been a masterstroke and he has been against Brexit the whole time. I'm not so certain myself and he refuses to listen to me about his anti EU past.

And some wonder why I don't trust any of them.

 

[clint van damme]

Haha touche. I expect that JC will come out as being anti-Brexit over the coming months. A Corbynista I know claims it has all been a masterstroke and he has been against Brexit the whole time. I'm not so certain myself and he refuses to listen to me about his anti EU past.

I think he has been weak on the issue to be honest. It could well finish him as leader in the longer term.

 

[Astute]

normally when someone post an article they make a comment about it but you didn't really comment so I was just asking did you disagree with it. Like I said, read more into it if you want, I'm saying no more on it.

You have already said it. Making out that I could be defending the Tories when I quoted something that makes them look exactly like what they are.

 

[Astute]

I think he has been weak on the issue to be honest. It could well finish him as leader in the longer term.

He hasn't been weak. He just hasn't been shouting about it.

Both parties are split on it. The voters are split on it. May is a remainer. But she is getting shit off the remainers because she is leading the leavers.

Corbyn has always wanted out of the EU. But he knows he can use the situation to his advantage. Keep all the negativity on May.

 

[Sick Boy]

I think he has been weak on the issue to be honest. It could well finish him as leader in the longer term.

I agree and have said before it'll cost him amongst the younger voters.