Motor Vehicle for Robins

Esoterica

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Aug 21, 2013
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true, but if they sort out where we're playing and can demonstrate some sort of viable long term plan for improving the club I'll live with it. If they actually care then that would be a massive bonus but I don't want to ask for too much!!
But you're a reasonable person ;) Aside from actually selling us or changing their spots, I'd say SISU as zombie owners is just about the best thing they could do for us when we look back at how their involvement in everything else has turned to shit e.g. Orange Ken, Fisher being a provocative nob for years etc. 18 months ago everyone wanted Fisher to stfu and get out the limelight and now that's happened it's levelled as some kind of criticism. And then despite all the shit we've been through people are still banging on about speculating money we don't have to accumulate. Have we learnt nothing through this whole sorry saga? I hope whenever they do go, Hoffman, or whoever it is makes it clear from the start that we are going to be a well run family club, that we will operate with as much transparency as we are legally allowed and that if we want our team invested in then the fans need to get up the Ricoh regularly.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

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Jul 26, 2012
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Ask yourself. Could Sisu do more to get us out of here ?
Why don’t you address my points?

We’ve signed 15+ players, completely rebuilt a squad that is good enough to compete with the top 3 in this division - it’s our results against the FGR’s of this league that’s derailing our efforts. We have had injuries to our best players, most notably Jones, who before he was injured was seemingly involved in all our goals.

I don’t think the club could’ve done much more over such a short time. Instead of making vague comments, be precise in how the club could’ve done more.
 

italiahorse

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Nov 23, 2011
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Why don’t you address my points?

We’ve signed 15+ players, completely rebuilt a squad that is good enough to compete with the top 3 in this division - it’s our results against the FGR’s of this league that’s derailing our efforts. We have had injuries to our best players, most notably Jones, who before he was injured was seemingly involved in all our goals.

I don’t think the club could’ve done much more over such a short time. Instead of making vague comments, be precise in how the club could’ve done more.
It's not the quantity its the quality of the players we want and to build a squad rather than change it continuously.
We do the same every year and clear them out the following year.
The club are doing what they can within the constraints of the owners.
The club and players are doing their best but overall the team is now going to struggle (again) through lack of quality in depth.
Real owners would show more interest or move on when they loose it.
 

NorthernWisdom

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Apr 23, 2013
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and to build a squad rather than change it continuously.
I will say the good thing Robins has done is get most on a two year contract, so there *ought* to be some stability next season.

The fact they're just about *all* on a two year contract concerns me slightly that after *next* season we'll end up with no squad, but guess this pre-season will go some way to answering that one!
 
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Nick

Administrator
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It's not the quantity its the quality of the players we want and to build a squad rather than change it continuously.
We do the same every year and clear them out the following year.
The club are doing what they can within the constraints of the owners.
The club and players are doing their best but overall the team is now going to struggle (again) through lack of quality in depth.
Real owners would show more interest or move on when they loose it.
We have given them pretty much all 2 year contracts and the youngsters even longer.

Every player we have needs paying, that goes for Jones and Andreu too and now Davies who will be out for the season.

You still havent addressed his points or actually shown you have a clue, it's just aimless rantings like the pissed up old boy in the pub who everybody steers clear of.

There's not much wrong with the quality of the players when we beat teams is there?

You are going on about chucking money in then just dropping it and walking away if it doesn't work, at least try and be a little bit realistic. Whether it's SISU or not it isn't going to happen.

It's as if you can't think past "Throw more money in" or "walk away" as 2 options as if anybody is going to want to throw money in, more money in and if it doesn't work just say "ah it was sort of fun, dont worry about the cash".
 

italiahorse

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We have given them pretty much all 2 year contracts and the youngsters even longer.

Every player we have needs paying, that goes for Jones and Andreu too and now Davies who will be out for the season.

You still havent addressed his points or actually shown you have a clue, it's just aimless rantings like the pissed up old boy in the pub who everybody steers clear of.

There's not much wrong with the quality of the players when we beat teams is there?

You are going on about chucking money in then just dropping it and walking away if it doesn't work, at least try and be a little bit realistic. Whether it's SISU or not it isn't going to happen.

It's as if you can't think past "Throw more money in" or "walk away" as 2 options as if anybody is going to want to throw money in, more money in and if it doesn't work just say "ah it was sort of fun, dont worry about the cash".
Me ranting ?
Closer to home I think.
 

oucho

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Feb 28, 2015
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debating the managers decisions on a football forum, crazy eh?
Yes, it's crazy when we're having our best season in years and when, for the first time in a long time, there's such a good feeling about the club. But one bad result and it's back to this topic = massive over-reaction.

If we don't go up this season it isn't a disaster. Provided we go up in the next 3 years, that's fine. We just need stability as a club and a long-term manager to rebuild the internal structure of the club and get some long term foundations in place. That seems to be happening, which is great, so why sacrifice that by getting shot of the manager. Short-termism doesn't get you anywhere other than League Two.
 

Nick

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Yes, it's crazy when we're having our best season in years and when, for the first time in a long time, there's such a good feeling about the club. But one bad result and it's back to this topic = massive over-reaction.

If we don't go up this season it isn't a disaster. Provided we go up in the next 3 years, that's fine. We just need stability as a club and a long-term manager to rebuild the internal structure of the club and get some long term foundations in place. That seems to be happening, which is great, so why sacrifice that by getting shot of the manager. Short-termism doesn't get you anywhere other than League Two.
Read what he said.

debating the managers decisions on a football forum, crazy eh?
How is it crazy to question a manager's decisions after a match?
 

clint van damme

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May 3, 2015
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Yes, it's crazy when we're having our best season in years and when, for the first time in a long time, there's such a good feeling about the club. But one bad result and it's back to this topic = massive over-reaction.

If we don't go up this season it isn't a disaster. Provided we go up in the next 3 years, that's fine. We just need stability as a club and a long-term manager to rebuild the internal structure of the club and get some long term foundations in place. That seems to be happening, which is great, so why sacrifice that by getting shot of the manager. Short-termism doesn't get you anywhere other than League Two.
it's not one bad result. We have won 1 out of 5 away in the league and have 3 league away games on the spin, (not counting the cup game), coming up after Accrington.

And I have said repeatedly, I don't want rid of the manager though you and others appear to be deliberately ignoring that.
 
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italiahorse

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I was asking you things about what you keep saying, as usual though you can't seem to be able to expand on what you are saying or go into detail.
It's an opinion on how I see it.
Your welcome to yours even though it seems to remove Sisu from the equation.
If you have all the details your kidding yourself.
 

Nick

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It's an opinion on how I see it.
Your welcome to yours even though it seems to remove Sisu from the equation.
If you have all the details your kidding yourself.
When you are talking about a decision a manager has made off his own back where he has had the same things but arranged them differently the owners don't come into it so aren't in the equation.

How about you expand and go into detail about the things you keep going on about?
 

italiahorse

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Nov 23, 2011
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When you are talking about a decision a manager has made off his own back where he has had the same things but arranged them differently the owners don't come into it so aren't in the equation.

How about you expand and go into detail about the things you keep going on about?
I have.
He has to work around his limited options,
He may have made a mistake bringing Kelly in but once it was made his options are limited.
It's easy to look back after the event.
 

Nick

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I have.
He has to work around his limited options,
He may have made a mistake bringing Kelly in but once it was made his options are limited.
It's easy to look back after the event.
It isn't just that event, it's multiple games he has got the same thing wrong. The same thing was happening months ago and people were blaming McNulty for being shit.

It's the same for every football manager, once they put a team out it's hard to change it but that's what makes a good proactive manager.
 

italiahorse

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It isn't just that event, it's multiple games he has got the same thing wrong. The same thing was happening months ago and people were blaming McNulty for being shit.

It's the same for every football manager, once they put a team out it's hard to change it but that's what makes a good proactive manager.
It's experience we lack for him to draw on.
The defence is statistically the best in the league yet we lost to schoolboy errors on Saturday.
If we are relying on an 18 year old midfielder then we are in trouble.
 

mechaishida

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Nov 2, 2015
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We should be miles clear , it’s embarrassing
Are you for real?

Have you even looked at the table properly, and noticed that it's extraordinarily tight, points-wise?

This is the first time in years that we haven't began a post Xmas nosedive, so I'm guessing you're exceedingly difficult to please.
 

mechaishida

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I am not winding you up , we are hanging on coat tails of clubs that in all fairness have the same history of some pub teams. We should be flying this .

I ask again why ?
Flying????

Given the detritus of last season, I'm pleasantly surprised that we're still in and around the playoffs. Under SISU's 'rule', this is new territory.

Will you be pleased if we fail to make the play offs?
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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but that's what makes a good proactive manager.
So the owners have employed a useless manager then. Is that what you’re saying? Maybe we can blame the board instead? Who employed them?

I don’t agree that Robins isn’t a good productive manager and I’ll tell you why. He’s had to adapt the whole team to deal with the Tony Andrews injury and to an even larger extent JJ, he’s also had to do this while trying to get MM firing on all cylinders and nurture MB from a hard working striker to one who can find the net while adapting to the pro game.

He might not get every decision correct every game but then which manager does? Ferguson was one game away from the boot before going on to be one of the greatest managers if not the greatest in Man U’s history. If you’d have been in charge he would never have got that opportunity and all that history would have been lost.
 

Nick

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It's experience we lack for him to draw on.
The defence is statistically the best in the league yet we lost to schoolboy errors on Saturday.
If we are relying on an 18 year old midfielder then we are in trouble.
What do you mean lack of experience? We have one of the most experienced squads in recent years all over the pitch.

We aren't relying just on Bayliss, but if he is available and playing well there's no reason to stop that is there?

You aren't making any sense.
 

Nick

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So the owners have employed a useless manager then. Is that what you’re saying? Maybe we can blame the board instead? Who employed them?

I don’t agree that Robins isn’t a good productive manager and I’ll tell you why. He’s had to adapt the whole team to deal with the Tony Andrews injury and to an even larger extent JJ, he’s also had to do this while trying to get MM firing on all cylinders and nurture MB from a hard working striker to one who can find the net while adapting to the pro game.

He might not get every decision correct every game but then which manager does? Ferguson was one game away from the boot before going on to be one of the greatest managers if not the greatest in Man U’s history. If you’d have been in charge he would never have got that opportunity and all that history would have been lost.
He got MM firing on all cylinders when he dropped the 2 x DM's didn't he, which seemed to be by accident.

Again, I have pointed out things he got wrong and I also point out things he gets right. I also don't want him sacked and want him to have chance to learn from it and build on it. It's the same as I get pissed off when Burge can't kick straight and then when he kicks it well and puts a player through I say it was good.

Maybe read what I am actually saying rather than trying to tell me what I am saying.
 

oucho

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Feb 28, 2015
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Read what he said.



How is it crazy to question a manager's decisions after a match?
I was referring to the overall thread which seems to be debating MR's position at the club. He does make mistakes as you have pointed out, especially the two DMCs thing, but I think we should allow people to make mistakes without questioning whether they ought to be sacked.
 

Esoterica

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Aug 21, 2013
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I have.
He has to work around his limited options,
He may have made a mistake bringing Kelly in but once it was made his options are limited.
It's easy to look back after the event.
There is literally nothing you can say that can pin Saturday's performance and result, when taken in context with our other results away at the bottom 7 and our results against the top 7, on the owners of the club. There's not a shred of logic to it. How you have managed 50 posts trying to do so is incredible.
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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He got MM firing on all cylinders when he dropped the 2 x DM's didn't he, which seemed to be by accident.

Again, I have pointed out things he got wrong and I also point out things he gets right. I also don't want him sacked and want him to have chance to learn from it and build on it. It's the same as I get pissed off when Burge can't kick straight and then when he kicks it well and puts a player through I say it was good.

Maybe read what I am actually saying rather than trying to tell me what I am saying.
You’re certainly building up to him getting sacked. You continually fail to see the full picture, you’re in denial about the negative effect of our owners and how this hamstrings every good manager we have.

Robins is a decent manager at this level, Mowbray is a good manager at this level and higher. Both experienced managers. SP was a decent rookie manager who did a hell of a job for a period of time under very difficult circumstances. Both SP and TM had periods of success followed by abject failure. Robins is more steady than both of them for my money but that doesn’t mean that he’s untouchable from this invisible force that keeps turning managers from hero to zero at our club. I hope he’ll maintain his average over a long period of time for the duration of the season as that will give us every chance of the playoffs, I’d love it if he could improve performances so we get a playoff place with games to spare or dare I dream an automatic place. If we have turned a corner though down a dark alley of decline sooner or later you and a few others are going to have to realise that the problem that keeps us repeating this pattern is bigger than the manager getting his tactics wrong one game in however many. I doubt you will though as that would require a complete change of tack and we all know Nick is never wrong.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Apr 16, 2010
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I would qualify the "if we don't go up this season it isn't a problem". If we don't go up having been part of the play offs it is possibly not a problem. However if we fail to reach those play offs I think the knock on effect will be to make the finances much harder next season and potentially even smaller crowds. If they are struggling to get to a 9000 average crowd this season when we are in the mix it would be reckless to budget for anything similar next season ............... which of course has a knock on effect when building a squad in the summer

Pointing to 15 players signed on is a little misleading............. there had to be a significant number brought in during the summer simply to have a squad, following the departures end of last season.

I think Robins is doing ok so far. I wouldn't advocate sacking him based on what has been achieved to date. He is however not the most financially handicapped manager in L2 by some distance. If he has the 8th best budget that means 16 that are worse off. As I pointed out earlier success has been achieved on much lower turnovers than ours and no great owner investment so it is not just about throwing money at the team. Blaming the budget or finances for not going up really doesn't wash. Yes we have had injuries, but that's the same as all the other teams so again isn't really an excuse.

Could the owners put more money in, well yes but do they need to when we already have enough funds to compete, and perhaps they no longer have access to funds appropriate to football investment so cant. Hard to see lots of investors falling over themselves to put money in given the CCFC track record and lack of assets. From what I have seen of the SISU accounts there isn't lots of spare cash, and if their investors have been burnt already where do they get these sums demanded from?

The club (ie the structure up to and including Boddy) seems to be a little more proactive and transparent. They have been left to sort it out and in that sense the non involvement of SISU is welcome. Of course more funds might help, but how many teams throw money at the squad and fail, I would suggest many. What people do not look at is the increased debt, which increases risks which is a problem if it is other peoples money. There also seems to be a general impression that football investment should be free money - why? especially why if it is purely an investment not a love of the club.

For now we have to live with the set up we have. That means living within our means in L2. It would seem to be agreed that those means are in the top 8 or so in the division based on TF statements at the start of the season. So we should be in the mix, a bit of luck and decent decision making then the play offs are still there to grab

Just a thought but if our crowds have dropped off what about everyone elses? L2 the main income for any club is matchday income, not all benefit from player sales or add ons. Small crowds also means lower interest and lower alternative incomes too. The rules of finance don't just apply to CCFC

Robins has the means to achieve, given a little luck he could. He gets things wrong as does everyone else, I don't think we should be calling for his head.
 
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Skybluedar

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We have the 3rd best clean sheets.

Above us are Luton and Cambridge from when I last checked.
This was a tongue in cheek quip at those slating everything Coventry City. I am sure that you realise my point was that we have the least goals conceded in the division. What good is Cambridge’s clean sheets record when they’ve leaked 18 goals more than we have?
 

Nick

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You’re certainly building up to him getting sacked. You continually fail to see the full picture, you’re in denial about the negative effect of our owners and how this hamstrings every good manager we have.

Robins is a decent manager at this level, Mowbray is a good manager at this level and higher. Both experienced managers. SP was a decent rookie manager who did a hell of a job for a period of time under very difficult circumstances. Both SP and TM had periods of success followed by abject failure. Robins is more steady than both of them for my money but that doesn’t mean that he’s untouchable from this invisible force that keeps turning managers from hero to zero at our club. I hope he’ll maintain his average over a long period of time for the duration of the season as that will give us every chance of the playoffs, I’d love it if he could improve performances so we get a playoff place with games to spare or dare I dream an automatic place. If we have turned a corner though down a dark alley of decline sooner or later you and a few others are going to have to realise that the problem that keeps us repeating this pattern is bigger than the manager getting his tactics wrong one game in however many. I doubt you will though as that would require a complete change of tack and we all know Nick is never wrong.
Why are you trying to tell me what I am building up to? I have said from the start on that other taxi thread I don't want him sacked and want him to have chance to learn from mistakes and help us build.

It isn't just one game is it? The issue was there earlier in the season. I want him to take note of that and stop being so stubborn and doing the random changes, the same with the DKE's vanishing out of the squad completely for weeks and then in for a start and then vanishing again.

You continually fail to acknowledge anything when the talk turns to football as it must be the owners fault the sa\me as italia, it can't be the manager making wrong decisions or messing things like recruitment up.
 

Hobo

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May 13, 2013
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Frankly when you start saying you can’t have an opinion on an individual without a ready made replacement is absurd. Managers success and failure is all down to luck and timing most of the time.

Mowbray should have been sacked in the first season in February. Most clubs would have seen the signs. There was no forward momentum at all and promotion was gone unless a change was made.

I haven’t said sack him now. However perhaps you’d like to explain how success would be achieved by a manager who failed first time at promotion when the second time the resources will be thinner and the main reasons for any success st all this season will be long gone.

Can you answer that?
Joe Royle took several seasons to build Oldham due to injuries and General development and gave them their most successful period ever ...so yes you can do it on second and third attempt.

We have had your model, sack managers and hope for a bounce, since the Championship; we are now in League 2 (old 4th Division).

I agree we NW, the whole organisation is responsible for building a successful environment.

Without that you are right "Managers success is down to luck and timing" and Mowbray agreed with you "I got tired of just flipping coins on players."

So the club have a choice, build properly for the future in the long term, or join most the other clubs in the flipping coins lottery.
 

Hobo

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Any owner could. An owner could lend its club a couple of million and it could still fail - then what?

If it’s to be believed Mansfield have ploughed a lot into the club. It’s still not definitely going to succeed.

Do you want our debt mountain to increase again?
No, so sensible investment within our revenue streams is the answer, building our revenue by embracing our fan base is key, along with along term plan and corporate philosophy is the way to go. A new manager and new squad of rejects every 15 months get you nowhere
 
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Nick

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No, so sensible investment within our revenue streams is the answer, building our revenue by embracing our fan base is key, along with along term plan and corporate philosophy is the way to go. A new manager and new squad of rejects every 15 months get you nowhere
I'd say since Boddy that has improved massively to be fair to him. Hopefully we see more of that rather than him getting the boot and another Fisher doing it.