Mean while back in court (4 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Morally because you support Coventry City Football Club. I see where you are coming from and I am as frustrated as you are; but plenty of non fans see it differently. CCC don't just represent the football fans.

So the council agreed a consensus with the public in their decision to merge with Birmingham then?

 

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[stupot07]

And based on average attendances it's a tiny minority!

Like I keep saying. SISU need to move on to move forward!

The problem about using average attendance's is it presumes that its the same people attending every home game. I remember Ashdown saying a year or so ago that there were 150k individual customers on the ccfc database. Average attendance's dont tell you anything.

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[Hobo]

I am referring to an allegation a saints fan changed allegiance when wasps arrived. I don't believe that to be the case. Do you?

Most people I know going to Wasps are rugby fans not Coventry City fans. Or people who never went to see City play.

Against Coventry v Southend I got talking to a father and son. Father was from Coventry and had never seen Coventry City play. He now' lives and works in Leicestershire. His adult son was a Leicester City fan having grew up in Leicester.

I asked why were they watching Coventry v Southend?

They said they went to the Ricoh to see Wasps v Tigers. They enjoyed it so much they decided to come and watch some football at the stadium.

It can work both ways as a venue. A good venue can draw for all its revenue streams.

 

[Hobo]

Most of us got hooked as kids and try and give our kids the bug.

But the club has to try and hook kids because they might also hook a dutiful adult who previously Samantha football fan.

I can't understand some on this forum who bemoan our supposed lack of support. Then moan about bumper high profile match attendance. Each one of those extra fans are a potential avid fan. But the team has to deliver to keep them...not win...just deliver the effort and excitement.

 

[Moff]

I know quite a few People from across the midlands who are now regularly attending the Ricoh as Wasps fans. I also know quite a few ex saints fans now going to the Ricoh. It's all a bit weird for me but the loyalty in Rugby certainly is of a different nature.
Still don't agree that the RFC allows clubs to move. The FA were right to ban it after Wimbledon for foitball. Must be a reason why it's not banned in the rules of rugby?

Do you think if Manchester United or Chelsea moved to coventry they would attract any support from the local community?

As for ex saints fans they are as passionate as football fans so that my friend is a lie.

His post is indeed full of shit. I would hazard he only mentioned Saints as he read my post firts, before he posted.

I cant abide clueless drivel written by people about a sport and its fans that they clearly know nothing about.

 

[rupert_bear]

There are football fans and rugby fans I don't know many who do both and none who have given up CCFC for Wasps

 

[Hobo]

So the council agreed a consensus with the public in their decision to merge with Birmingham then?

CCC and like any other council nationally, along with the elected party in national government don't agree consensus with the electorate on most decisions. I have expressed my dissatisfaction about Coventry being merged with Birmingham direct to CCC on more than one occasion. I can do that because unlike you I actually live in Coventry

Cameron's Government have done about 11 u turns on important policies since elected.

You I believe are a Senior Manager. That title alone suggests you don't get a consensus from your work force on every decision you make. In support of my view on that, your pompus attitude on this forum illustrates how it is not in your nature to go with the consensus

 

[Hobo]

His post is indeed full of shit. I would hazard he only mentioned Saints as he read my post firts, before he posted.

I cant abide clueless drivel written by people about a sport and its fans that they clearly know nothing about.

If you are a genuine football fan and rugby fan (like me) I bet you have been to football and rugby matches (like me) that hasn't involved a team from Coventry?

Now don't talk drivel.

 

[Hobo]

Moff rugby is a slightly different beast and if you know as much as you make out you know franchising exists in rugby. I have certainly read articles on it.

It takes a slightly different form in rationalisation, look at Welsh teams and Irish teams in the Pro 12. Scottish rugby ploughed money into Glasgow a non rugby city at the cost of another team/region now out of existence. Wasps aren't the only team trying to move out of London or trying to change leagues to get a different market are they?

If you are not aware of these facts you are not a rugby fan.

 

[dongonzalos]

Do you think if Manchester United or Chelsea moved to coventry they would attract any support from the local community?

As for ex saints fans they are as passionate as football fans so that my friend is a lie.

Is not a lie when to you want to come for a beer and meet one of them?
Still classes himself as a saints fan goes to the Ricoh every second week to watch Wasps.
Makes no sense to me.
Man Utd move into Coventry. We would lose fans no question.
I am not saying the wasps move should have been allowed it shouldn't.
Just saying my experience of rugby fans is bizzare

 

[dongonzalos]

His post is indeed full of shit. I would hazard he only mentioned Saints as he read my post firts, before he posted.

I cant abide clueless drivel written by people about a sport and its fans that they clearly know nothing about.

All due respect Moff do one.
If you would like to meet my friend who is a Saints fan who attends Wasps every second week and still maintains he is a saints fan then PM me.
Otherwise your post is full of shit.

I don't give a toss about Rugby or Wasps. I don't get the various people I know who live throughout the Midlands who now attend Wasps. It is their business not mine. From my experience people are happy to go wherever is easiest for them and they can watch good rugby . Whether that is the team they profess to support or not.

 

[dongonzalos]

Indeed but for things to move forward someone has to make the first move. As he's new in the role he is in the ideal position to offer the olive branch. Just say can we get together and see if there's a way to resolve things.

Yes Dave I forgot you always want someone else to offer the olive branch. Only one side can do that, the side who keep attacking.
They should ditch the legal battles and start negotiating with Wasps.

 

[dongonzalos]

He's not saying what I think mate. If the council gave a shit about the club they'd have done what they promised and given it some time to build trust rather than jumping straight into bed with Wasps. I'd rather he just shut up about the club and quit pretending to care - it's crocodile tears.

If the Council want to draw a line under it maybe they could help by trying to find somewhere in or near the city for a new ground.

Sorry I should have said what most of the voters think.
Yes I agree the council should find a site I agree

 

[dongonzalos]

Really? Stating Sports Clubs (not just football clubs) shouldn't be moved from their communities yet sell to Wasps.

Publically stating ownership would be discussed but trust needs to be built up first despite having already done a deal with Wasps?

I'm sure if that was SISU your attitude would be v totally different.

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Don't agree with Wasps moving.
RFC allow it, not sure why?
Council needed to ensure the charity got as much if their money back as they could and not be left with an empty 32k arena.
Not sure which decision morally is more important
Piss off 9k wasps fans and
Generate 2.75 million for a charity. Secure ACL as an asset.
Or
Refuse to allow wasps to come

 

[dongonzalos]

True fans don't care if the charity got a single penny back. They made the investment the same as sisu.

Yes Grendel I remember the football club over everything else in life. Then you are a true fan

 

[dongonzalos]

Yes and would still draw a crowd from elsewhere because Glory hunters will travel. Plenty of people in the local community support those teams. Manchester United could move anywhere and be supported but that is not the point. The point is is they/ are MANCHESTER UNITED.

Does your Saints fan live in Northampton, are they from Northampton. I have an avid and passionate one next door to me with no connection to Northampton. So how is he part of the Northampton community.

He's not he is the same as one if my work colleagues and a mate
One from the Black Country one from Coventry
Both Saints fans. Both now go to the Ricoh
Both still say they are saints fans
Neither born in Northampton or have any connection there.
I also know of Leicester fans doing the same thing.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I've obviously missed something, who compared Mutton ,Sepalla and Lucas with regard
to there personal wealth and success.

Didn't you know he is on a 6 figure salary that makes him a better person then the rest of us.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Not the "they wanted it for free line", what bollocks.

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Well didn't they?

What was it Sir Tim and Co said?
Not worth anything will give the Charithy some money as a good gesture:laugh:?
Will move to Northampton and the fans will come:laugh:?

No one else will want it?
Will build our own ground:laugh:?
Will let you all know in Three weeks:laugh:?
Nobody will talk to us:facepalm:?
We only need 12.000 fans to break even, sorry make that 14,000, sorry put up season ticket prices:thinking about:?

For fans of other clubs we are like a sketch from the "Comedy Club".

For us it is more like "A Nightmare on Elms Street"

 

[Astute]

Do you think if Manchester United or Chelsea moved to coventry they would attract any support from the local community?

As for ex saints fans they are as passionate as football fans so that my friend is a lie.

Let me think a minute.

Who would get the best attendances. CCFC or a big club that is one of the best in the country that has a chance of winning something every season?

Can you remind me what it is like trying to get a ticket to a game like Chelsea?

 

[martcov]

Indeed but for things to move forward someone has to make the first move. As he's new in the role he is in the ideal position to offer the olive branch. Just say can we get together and see if there's a way to resolve things.

I would have thought Joy would have most to gain by admitting defeat. The future of her asset would be better served by not following up a JR involving past and present landlords. She needs a relationship with the Council and the citizens of Coventry and Wasps.
The rot has stopped on the pitch. Attendances are going up. We have TM's Football experience and CA's modern Big Data background which may move us forward - without the personality problems of the past. Now would be a good time to put 'commercial advantage' before personal pride. The council have nothing to gain by offering an olive branch. They may even have their hand bitten off by SISU's legal team turning it into an admission of guilt or being afraid of losing the JR.

 

[Shakeitup]

Moff rugby is a slightly different beast and if you know as much as you make out you know franchising exists in rugby. I have certainly read articles on it.

It takes a slightly different form in rationalisation, look at Welsh teams and Irish teams in the Pro 12. Scottish rugby ploughed money into Glasgow a non rugby city at the cost of another team/region now out of existence. Wasps aren't the only team trying to move out of London or trying to change leagues to get a different market are they?

If you are not aware of these facts you are not a rugby fan.

This!

People need to stop comparing CCFC and Wasps and focus on City!

 

[kmj5000]

Properly exposing council decisions regarding £14.4m of public money to scrutiny has nothing to do with going to the polls - so that's a pretty easy straw man to demolish. What the council seemingly did here is pressurise the CET to the point of costing a decent journalist his job, just so they could make the bailout in secret.

It most certainly is not standard business practice to go to the press saying that you want to take time to build trust with someone, whilst behind their back doing a deal with someone else. That unless you're in a particularly shitty, lying kind of business, and you don't give a bollocks about your reputation. That isn't (or at least shouldn't be) the same as the business as running local government.

When Tony, when exactly did SISU get the opportunity to bid for the Ricoh on the same terms as Wasps? On a 250-year lease, and at a similar price?

That question I'll answer for you, because I'm heartily sick of the bullshit here. Never, is when.

Anyone who thinks that this I'm saying this in defence of SISU is a dribbling idiot frankly, but I'm amazed that there are still so many in denial about what the council have done here. SISU will be gone one day, and I'll have a bottle of Champagne ready for when they go. However unless Wasps fail, they'll own the arena for the next 250 years.

SISU might have battered the club, but by doing what they've done the council have pretty much killed it.

I assume that the 'decent journalist' you refer to is Les (It's the Butts, you read it here exclusive.... Oh, I've been sold a pup) Reid?

 

[Hobo]

He's not he is the same as one if my work colleagues and a mate
One from the Black Country one from Coventry
Both Saints fans. Both now go to the Ricoh
Both still say they are saints fans
Neither born in Northampton or have any connection there.
I also know of Leicester fans doing the same thing.

Sorry my reply was to Grendels first paragraph about Chelsea or Manchester United moving.

Rugby fans, or at least the hundreds I know, seem to be different. They will go to a top game regardless of who is playing. Especially if say Northampton played on Saturday and Wasps on Sunday. Most rugby players I know seem to follow the sport rather than a particular team. Perhaps that is a Coventry experience as we haven't had a top flight team for years. Probably different in Leicester or Northampton.

 

[stupot07]

Well didn't they?

What was it Sir Tim and Co said?
Not worth anything will give the Charithy some money as a good gesture:laugh:?
Will move to Northampton and the fans will come:laugh:?

No one else will want it?
Will build our own ground:laugh:?
Will let you all know in Three weeks:laugh:?
Nobody will talk to us:facepalm:?
We only need 12.000 fans to break even, sorry make that 14,000, sorry put up season ticket prices:thinking about:?

For fans of other clubs we are like a sketch from the "Comedy Club".

For us it is more like "A Nightmare on Elms Street"

And thus proving my point about " wanting it for free" being a crock of shit. A) they constantly spout bs, and b) no one would ever truly think they would get it without paying an amount of money for it.

Now it's just a lazy soundbite that gets thrown out on here every so often.

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[stupot07]

There are football fans and rugby fans I don't know many who do both and none who have given up CCFC for Wasps

I know a few they are/were cov fans but don't go to the Ricoh anymore to watch cov, they're now wasps fans and go and watch them instead.

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[italiahorse]

Really? Stating Sports Clubs (not just football clubs) shouldn't be moved from their communities yet sell to Wasps.

Publically stating ownership would be discussed but trust needs to be built up first despite having already done a deal with Wasps?

I'm sure if that was SISU your attitude would be v totally different.

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Trust works both ways.
How do you know that SISU would not just continue to go for the freehold of the stadium once Wasps were out the way.
All the indications were that they would and CCC could not take the chance.

 

[stupot07]

Trust works both ways.
How do you know that SISU would not just continue to go for the freehold of the stadium once Wasps were out the way.
All the indications were that they would and CCC could not take the chance.

But they said they wanted to build trust before talking about ownership whilst they were already doing the wasps deal behind their back. Regardless if whether they could trust sisu or not, they outright lied.

CCC could take that chance? Acl was washing its face, the council loan was being repaid, and they only got £3.77m (inc. 200 year extension). That's a drop in the ocean by council budgets. If acl went bust (unlikely) the lease would have referred back to the council and they could have tendered the lease on the open market.

They could have and should have waited for ccfc to be in a position to buy it. This has now fucked us over for generations.

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[italiahorse]

This!

People need to stop comparing CCFC and Wasps and focus on City!

Before we focus on City we need a plan from Sisu to follow.

 

[torchomatic]

Amusingly, I remember many people on here (who've actually posted on this thread) saying don't sell to SISU as they will just borrow against it, they can't be trusted, yet cheer on the Wasps franchise, who within months borrowed against the stadium.

And yes, I'm talking about fools like you. CCC should have sold to CCFC owners whoever they were and put in provision that the stadium could not be sold, borrowed against, etc.

As I've said many times before SISU have screwed us up for a decade or two, CCC have screwed us for generations.

We will never recover. The "could not take the chance" line is pathetic.

Trust works both ways.
How do you know that SISU would not just continue to go for the freehold of the stadium once Wasps were out the way.
All the indications were that they would and CCC could not take the chance.

 

[tisza]

Won't the latest proposed legal moves probably take us past the expiry date of the current rental agreement?

 

[tisza]

Before we focus on City we need a plan from Sisu to follow.

i'm with this.
New stadium - yes or no.
Stadium plans on hold still all legal avenues explored - yes or no.
Compensation claims for the benefit of the owners or the football club?
is it still all or nothing regarding Ricoh "ownership"?

 

[Hobo]

Amusingly, I remember many people on here (who've actually posted on this thread) saying don't sell to SISU as they will just borrow against it, they can't be trusted, yet cheer on the Wasps franchise, who within months borrowed against the stadium.

And yes, I'm talking about fools like you. CCC should have sold to CCFC owners whoever they were and put in provision that the stadium could not be sold, borrowed against, etc.

As I've said many times before SISU have screwed us up for a decade or two, CCC have screwed us for generations.

We will never recover. The "could not take the chance" line is pathetic.

But CCC couldn't sell to the owners of CCFC because the owners of CCFC couldn't agree on a deal. They kept changing the parameters of any deal being discussed....for one purpose to distress ACL and drive the price down. It is clear to everyone who looks at it except fools like you.

We are where we are Torch and the solutions are ahead of us. Continually raking over the past will not move the club forward.

 

[torchomatic]

But CCC couldn't sell to the owners of CCFC because the owners of CCFC couldn't agree on a deal. They kept changing the parameters of any deal being discussed....for one purpose to distress ACL and drive the price down. It is clear to everyone who looks at it except fools like you.

We are where we are Torch and the solutions are ahead of us. Continually raking over the past will not move the club forward.

Well don't sell the stadium until SISU had fucked off then. At the time they were telling us thatbrhe stadium ans acl were in fine shape.

The stadium was built for Coventry City. We paid more in rent in ten years than Wasps paid.

And i want the best for ccfc, not wasps, acl or the local authority like you and others seem to want. If that makes me a fool then I'm a fool.

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[letsallsingtogether]

This!

People need to stop comparing CCFC and Wasps and focus on City!

Amen and Hallelujah to that☺☺☺☺☺

 

[Hobo]

Well don't sell the stadium until SISU had fucked off then. At the time they were telling us thatbrhe stadium ans acl were in fine shape.

The stadium was built for Coventry City. We paid more in rent in ten years than Wasps paid.

And i want the best for ccfc, not wasps, acl or the local authority like you and others seem to want. If that makes me a fool then I'm a fool.

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It's nothing to do with what I wanted for the club I was commenting on what happened. I don't want Wasps there but it seems lots of local rugby fans do. There are only two occasions that would get me to a Wasps game.
1. They play against Coventry sometime in the future.
2. They play against Ulster.
and I wouldn't be supporting Wasps.