Max v Baka (2 Viewers)

Legia Sky Blue · Dec 8, 2020

CanuckSkyBlue said:
Never got the Carl Baker fan boys, overrated. I doubt either will be here next year should we survive.

Carl Baker had, and still has his share of 'haters' just as Biamou has. I was lucky enough to meet Baker and he came across as a genuinely nice guy, with a proper affection for our club, and who having played non league had a proper appreciation of his good fortune in making it as a pro. For some reason some of our fans resented his use of social media. As a player while he struggled to impose himself in the Championship , he was quality in League 1, not just with us but also with MK Dons afterwards.

Sick Boy · Dec 8, 2020

Colin Steins Smile said:
I seem to recollect that Regis didn't score loads of goals for us, but when he played the other team mates tended to score more often.
I await the statistical gurus to prove me wrong....as I said it's a recollection. Perhaps Biamou adds more than just goals

...and yet another bizarre and over the top comparison.

Evo1883 · Dec 8, 2020

Last thing il say, he's a solid proffessional and a great ambassador of our club

DannyThomas_1981 · Dec 8, 2020

Evo1883 said:
I think ultimately most people including me support whoever wears the shirt, however max has never excelled here, showed just glimpses of what maybe could be...

He has scored an important goal here and there no doubt, but for example somebody like godden who basically fired us back into the championship, doesn't get the level of respect or love... Some suggesting he may not get back into the team when fit... Which is ludicrous

There has never nor will there ever be a rational logical discussion about max biamou... Some fans admit he's almost a cult hero which is odd

I'd be delighted should he score 10 goals this season in the league, I would still hope the club looks to get better next season

I hear you Evo. But I would equally argue that he has excelled and stepped to the higher levels year after year after being written off by many; and as man of the match in the last game I'm not sure why we continue to doubt that Max brings real value to the squad.

Goals per minute in this division (Max is ahead of anyone in our team), and in terms of assists (which should have been converted) - I'm sure he's way ahead. He's also hit the woodwork at least 3 times this season - which is just unlucky and happens to all top strikers.

It's actually not about being a cult hero (although I seriously do love Max and the back story); it's really from my perspective about what Max brings to the team.

I'm probably alone but it's also pretty classless (not aiming this at you in any way) to demand the removal of a player from next year's squad after the week-end performance - why anyone would want to do that as a supporter I just don't get it.

DannyThomas_1981 · Dec 8, 2020

Sick Boy said:
...and yet another bizarre and over the top comparison.

What's really bizarre is your constant need to be always critical and derisory about a player who was the best player on the pitch on Saturday.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 8, 2020

DannyThomas_1981 said:
I hear you Evo. But I would equally argue that he has excelled and stepped to the higher levels year after year after being written off by many; and as man of the match in the last game I'm not sure why we continue to doubt that Max brings real value to the squad.

Goals per minute in this division (Max is ahead of anyone in our team), and in terms of assists (which should have been converted) - I'm sure he's way ahead. He's also hit the woodwork at least 3 times this season - which is just unlucky and happens to all top strikers.

It's actually not about being a cult hero (although I seriously do love Max and the back story); it's really from my perspective about what Max brings to the team.

I'm probably alone but it's also pretty classless (not aiming this at you in any way) to demand the removal of a player from next year's squad after the week-end performance - why anyone would want to do that as a supporter I just don't get it.

He is basically doing a much better job of what Kevin Kyle was signed to do

CanuckSkyBlue · Dec 8, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
He is basically doing a much better job of what Kevin Kyle was signed to do

He who shall not be named, stole a living off us.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 8, 2020

CanuckSkyBlue said:
He who shall not be named, stole a living off us.

By his own admission too

DannyThomas_1981 · Dec 8, 2020

CanuckSkyBlue said:
He who shall not be named, stole a living off us.

Kyle was a panic signing by Adams. Very overpriced for sure. Didn’t fit our system. But you can’t blame the player for Adams paying such a ridiculous fee and wages. And whatever your view of Kyle - lack of effort was not something he could be charged with.

no_loyalty · Dec 8, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
He is basically doing a much better job of what Kevin Kyle was signed to do

What about Clive Platt?

Ccfcisparks · Dec 8, 2020

Talking about Kevin Kyle, he seems like a genuinely nice bloke. Really been enjoying him on Open Goal with Si Ferry.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 8, 2020

no_loyalty said:
What about Clive Platt?

Not really a physical player despite being taller than most

Evo1883 · Dec 8, 2020

DannyThomas_1981 said:
I hear you Evo. But I would equally argue that he has excelled and stepped to the higher levels year after year after being written off by many; and as man of the match in the last game I'm not sure why we continue to doubt that Max brings real value to the squad.

Goals per minute in this division (Max is ahead of anyone in our team), and in terms of assists (which should have been converted) - I'm sure he's way ahead. He's also hit the woodwork at least 3 times this season - which is just unlucky and happens to all top strikers.

It's actually not about being a cult hero (although I seriously do love Max and the back story); it's really from my perspective about what Max brings to the team.

I'm probably alone but it's also pretty classless (not aiming this at you in any way) to demand the removal of a player from next year's squad after the week-end performance - why anyone would want to do that as a supporter I just don't get it.

in the league max has a worse goal to minute ratio than both walker and godden this season ,walker actually has the best , godden played alone an awful lot too....its not by alot though granted

DannyThomas_1981 · Dec 8, 2020

Evo1883 said:
in the league max has a worse goal to minute ratio than both walker and godden this season ,walker actually has the best , godden played alone an awful lot too....its not by alot though granted

Not according to the BBC stats Evo - have a look. I agree with you on Godden - thankless task playing up front alone when the team is not controlling the game.

shmmeee · Dec 8, 2020

DannyThomas_1981 said:
Not according to the BBC stats Evo - have a look. I agree with you on Godden - thankless task playing up front alone when the team is not controlling the game.

BBC doesn’t distinguish between league and cup games.

Sick Boy · Dec 8, 2020

DannyThomas_1981 said:
What's really bizarre is your constant need to be always critical and derisory about a player who was the best player on the pitch on Saturday.

I just want the club to evolve and progress, it’s a strange concept, I know...

DannyThomas_1981 · Dec 8, 2020

shmmeee said:
BBC doesn’t distinguish between league and cup games.

Got it and thanks.

Sick Boy · Dec 8, 2020

DannyThomas_1981 said:
I hear you Evo. But I would equally argue that he has excelled and stepped to the higher levels year after year after being written off by many; and as man of the match in the last game I'm not sure why we continue to doubt that Max brings real value to the squad.

Goals per minute in this division (Max is ahead of anyone in our team), and in terms of assists (which should have been converted) - I'm sure he's way ahead. He's also hit the woodwork at least 3 times this season - which is just unlucky and happens to all top strikers.

It's actually not about being a cult hero (although I seriously do love Max and the back story); it's really from my perspective about what Max brings to the team.

I'm probably alone but it's also pretty classless (not aiming this at you in any way) to demand the removal of a player from next year's squad after the week-end performance - why anyone would want to do that as a supporter I just don't get it.

Emotional and way over the top - it’s not all about him, the club is bigger and more important than he is.

DannyThomas_1981 · Dec 8, 2020

Sick Boy said:
I just want the club to evolve and progress, it’s a strange concept, I know...

Supporting our own players who are performing on the pitch might also allow us to progress vs. constant criticism and derision - strange concept for you i agree...

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 8, 2020

Evo1883 said:
Wouldn't shut people up, we'd be disappointed we aren't looking for better.

That form you're describing over a season hasn't happened before so would be an anomoly

tbf, he's currently doing about as well as you could hope for the third / fourth choice striker.

Only reason to move him on would be to free up space for a youngster to develop, who has first team potential - or if he wants more regular football.

We're never going to have a superstar at third / fourth choice, though. Potentially you'd only play five games a season in that position, if the first two were lucky with injuries.

Sick Boy · Dec 8, 2020

DannyThomas_1981 said:
Supporting our own players who are performing on the pitch might also allow us to progress vs. constant criticism and derision - strange concept for you i agree...

...strange how you ignore over the top criticism of all others players apart from a certain one

DannyThomas_1981 · Dec 8, 2020

Sick Boy said:
...strange how you ignore over the top criticism of all others players apart from a certain one

Nope. I have a track record of defending any of our players if I see uninformed and continuous criticism/derision. Feel free to look at my posting history and then deny it.

Sick Boy · Dec 8, 2020

DannyThomas_1981 said:
Nope. I have a track record of defending any of our players if I see uninformed and continuous criticism/derision. Feel free to look at my posting history and then deny it.

It looks like you’ve got a busy few months ahead now

TomRad85 · Dec 8, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
tbf, he's currently doing about as well as you could hope for the third / fourth choice striker.

Only reason to move him on would be to free up space for a youngster to develop, who has first team potential - or if he wants more regular football.

We're never going to have a superstar at third / fourth choice, though. Potentially you'd only play five games a season in that position, if the first two were lucky with injuries.

I was formerly all in favour of letting him go when his contract expires but if he keeps up the form I'm be more than happy to give him another year as backup striker. If he earns it then fair play to him.

Baka on the other hand, I really hoped would kick on this season. He hasn't and should be let go.

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shmmeee · Dec 8, 2020

Got to say I’ve been disappointed in Baka. Send him to play some rugby or something and learn how to use his frame.

TomRad85 · Dec 8, 2020

shmmeee said:
Got to say I’ve been disappointed in Baka. Send him to play some rugby or something and learn how to use his frame.

I think a lot of us hoped, perhaps without any evidence that he was set to do so, that he might start to make use of his raw ingredients. Alas...

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Deleted member 5849 · Dec 8, 2020

TomRad85 said:
I was formerly all in favour of letting him go when his contract expires but if he keeps up the form I'm be more than happy to give him another year as backup striker. If he earns it then fair play to him.

Baka on the other hand, I really hoped would kick on this season. He hasn't and should be let go.

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Yep, I'd assume the ultimate plan is Bapaga develops to be third choice striker next season, all being well. Baka has long gone, it seems (never was?) so that leaves the need for a fourth choice. Who, other than a relatively cheap former non league striker, are we likely to get for that role?

Evo1883 · Dec 8, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
tbf, he's currently doing about as well as you could hope for the third / fourth choice striker.

Only reason to move him on would be to free up space for a youngster to develop, who has first team potential - or if he wants more regular football.

We're never going to have a superstar at third / fourth choice, though. Potentially you'd only play five games a season in that position, if the first two were lucky with injuries.

i dont dislike max and i want him to do well , hope he bangs 4 tonight ...i just think what think

TomRad85 · Dec 8, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Yep, I'd assume the ultimate plan is Bapaga develops to be third choice striker next season, all being well. Baka has long gone, it seems (never was?) so that leaves the need for a fourth choice. Who, other than a relatively cheap former non league striker, are we likely to get for that role?

Agreed, I can't imagine we pay him a significant sum.

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covboy1987 · Dec 8, 2020

Evo1883 said:
League games

Baka 11 in 54 in league 1

Cup and other. 2 in 15

5 assists in 69

Minutes played 3572

Biamou 9 in 62 in league 2 and 1

Cup and other 11 in 18

8 assists in 80

Minutes played 3991

I can't provide heat maps but I'd imagine Baka puts in alot more work

Argue away

It would be very interesting to know a stat that is not mentioned - How many games have these guys started ? How many goals particularly would Max have scored if he had a decent run in the team –In the main these players have been used as bench warmers- Have they been given the opportunity such as Godden and the like – No basically coming on the pitch anything from 5 mins to 20 mins not playing for weeks on end - is this a fair way of evaluating what they could really do- There are numerous players that have looked less than ordinary at one club and world beaters at other clubs – Patrick Bamford springs to mind in that category –

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2020

I would much rather have Biamou in the team than Bakayoko. At least with the former you know you will get a 100% effort and something might happen. I agree with the queries about the quality, but he was awesome on Saturday so I'll be encouraging more of the same.

For me Bakayoko is a complete waste of space and we never should have signed him in the first place.

Irish Sky Blue · Dec 8, 2020

Evo1883 said:
I mean, this is the problem when discussing max... No matter what is said... What stats we discuss.. Etc etc etc.

We go round in circles on the issue, so in reality what is the point discussing it, nobody can have a rational chat about the player so why bother

I hope he continues to score and play well...
But I still want us to get better next season,that's just how I feel

I never liked adebola, cov fans think he's Comparible to Pele because he scored a couple of cup bangers and the odd league goal, same thing here

I have never heard any City fan say that Adebola was comparable to Pele. I liked Adebola. He had power and pace and was skilful for a big man. I also liked the way that he came ‘back from the dead’ loaned out, written off but came on as a sub in his first game back and immediately got fans on his side. It turned out that he had been playing with an injury when he first arrived which held him back. We have had a lot of centre forwards better than Adebola and Biamou. I think that for the levels they have played at they have been good players for us.
You say that you support Biamou when he has the shirt and want him to do well, put it seems that post after post in this thread you are typing it through gritted teeth. You say that admiration for Max is irrational, that if people only looked at the facts they would see things differently, as you see them in fact.
I want our team to do well. I think that when all fit, our best team would have two strikers, probably Godden and Walker.I wouldn’t want Max to play if we have a better alternative. However, I think that Max gives us something different to the other two that might mean that on occasion he is used as first choice over one of the other two. I don’t know what you see when you watch Biamou play, I think that you have a different rationale to what I see. To me Biamou has a real physical presence. He wins a lot of aerial challenges, often playing the ball on to team mates. He is skilful on the deck and is good at holding up the ball and bringing other players into play. Take out his first non-scoring half season at the club and his minutes/ goals ratio is good. He scores the sort of goals that no one else in the team is capable of scoring (ie Peterborough away) This season, I think Max has played well, got into good scoring positions, started to score goals and has not looked out of place in the Championship.
I’m not interested in selfies, his social media or how much he proclaims his love for the club. I’m only interested in what he does on the pitch (although it does please me how he is written off so many times but keeps coming back. Most of us love the underdog).
What I don’t get is that straight after what was probably his best performance for the club, you and a few others seem intent on telling everyone that for the club to progress he needs to go in the summer, comments that could be construed as trying to justify past views and opinions on this player.
You may be right, this may be his last season. I know that the club were prepared to let him go to Swindon in the summer if Swindon had been prepared to pay more of his wages. However, wouldn’t it be better to wait and see what happens over the next few months? If Max gets a run of games, something he has never really had for various reasons, he may actually justify another contract.

Irish Sky Blue · Dec 8, 2020

Sick Boy said:
I just want the club to evolve and progress, it’s a strange concept, I know...

I want the same. You seem to think that anyone who thinks differently than you about Biamou puts him above the club. Not true.

Evo1883 · Dec 8, 2020

Irish Sky Blue said:
I have never heard any City fan say that Adebola was comparable to Pele. I liked Adebola. He had power and pace and was skilful for a big man. I also liked the way that he came ‘back from the dead’ loaned out, written off but came on as a sub in his first game back and immediately got fans on his side. It turned out that he had been playing with an injury when he first arrived which held him back. We have had a lot of centre forwards better than Adebola and Biamou. I think that for the levels they have played at they have been good players for us.
You say that you support Biamou when he has the shirt and want him to do well, put it seems that post after post in this thread you are typing it through gritted teeth. You say that admiration for Max is irrational, that if people only looked at the facts they would see things differently, as you see them in fact.
I want our team to do well. I think that when all fit, our best team would have two strikers, probably Godden and Walker.I wouldn’t want Max to play if we have a better alternative. However, I think that Max gives us something different to the other two that might mean that on occasion he is used as first choice over one of the other two. I don’t know what you see when you watch Biamou play, I think that you have a different rationale to what I see. To me Biamou has a real physical presence. He wins a lot of aerial challenges, often playing the ball on to team mates. He is skilful on the deck and is good at holding up the ball and bringing other players into play. Take out his first non-scoring half season at the club and his minutes/ goals ratio is good. He scores the sort of goals that no one else in the team is capable of scoring (ie Peterborough away) This season, I think Max has played well, got into good scoring positions, started to score goals and has not looked out of place in the Championship.
I’m not interested in selfies, his social media or how much he proclaims his love for the club. I’m only interested in what he does on the pitch (although it does please me how he is written off so many times but keeps coming back. Most of us love the underdog).
What I don’t get is that straight after what was probably his best performance for the club, you and a few others seem intent on telling everyone that for the club to progress he needs to go in the summer, comments that could be construed as trying to justify past views and opinions on this player.
You may be right, this may be his last season. I know that the club were prepared to let him go to Swindon in the summer if Swindon had been prepared to pay more of his wages. However, wouldn’t it be better to wait and see what happens over the next few months? If Max gets a run of games, something he has never really had for various reasons, he may actually justify another contract.

You know the Pele reference was tongue in cheek right?

BTW... Dele wasn't my cup of tea... Didn't rate him, what can I say

I can back every player on the pitch even if I don't rate some as much as others in terms of ability, i still want them to do well and the team to win

No gritted teeth here

There been many players over the years that I just didn't rate as much as other fans and vice versa

Evo1883 · Dec 8, 2020

Irish Sky Blue said:
I want the same. You seem to think that anyone who thinks differently than you about Biamou puts him above the club. Not true.

IL give you some context, I've seen some people who rate biamou very highly that have also said that Harry kane is overrated on this very forum I've seen people on twitter, on here actually say biamou is better than godden... Somebody on twitter referred to biamou as our tierry Henry the other day... I mean come on man it's a cult

Max v Baka (2 Viewers)

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