Not just this forum, it's a general issue.
The worst kind are those who seem to want younger generations to go through hardship, as some sort of moral life lesson, rather than wanting better for future generations.
People on this forum have a tendency to try and make those aged between 16-35 the bad guy.
It’s a huge own goal too because a massive % of the pension bill is public sector pensions. IIRC, BSB and others have argued against reforming public sector pensions.You seem to be suggesting reducing pensions that are already being paid out.
The statement is not incorrect either
Are you saying that people can receive the state pension if they've never paid into the system? I've not written anywhere that the pension should be reduced.You seem to be suggesting reducing pensions that are already being paid out.
The statement is not incorrect either
And it's emotional lines like this which prevent meaningful discussion. We can't and won't ever have a serious discussion on pensions because it's too uncomfortable, so instead we'll focus on smearing the group that contributes a much smaller proportion of the total.Of course, let’s go after pensioners who have by and large, paid into the system their entire lives.
And it's emotional lines like this which prevent meaningful discussion. We can't and won't ever have a serious discussion on pensions because it's too uncomfortable, so instead we'll focus on smearing the group that contributes a much smaller proportion of the total.
I want everyone to have a strong pension.I assume you are also referring to public sector workers here so would want doctors teachers etc to have reduced pensions?
underclass huh
I want everyone to have a strong pension.
Out of interest where have you and MMB got the idea from that anyone can get the state pension even if they haven't paid in? That's simply wrong.
Pension credit is separate to the state pension.Unemployment still gives you pension credits. Stay at home parents and carers also get pension contributions included
You say you want strong pensions but you are aware the biggest burden on the state regarding pensions is the public sector pension arrangement which is massively in debt?
Pension credit is separate to the state pension.
The way we finance pensions and the big problems we have on the horizon related to that are what I think should be our biggest focus since we're spending half our welfare bill on it. It's curious to call wanting to discuss how we solve these problems an 'own goal' as he put it.
You get a state pension based on national insurance contributions. If you claim job seekers allowance or employment and support allowance a national insurance contribution is made on your behalf.Children don’t get state handouts and pensioners qualify for state pension based on tax they’ve paid. As for severely disabled people who can’t work, they need state support. Not people with low level ADHD and Austin’s/Aspergers.
Why doesn’t it apply to migrants because the social contract is between British citizens and the British state? If a foreign national cannot sustain themselves, they should leave and if their circumstances change, reapply to enter the country. This is a v basic concept practiced globally. If I wanted to relocate to UAE, Australia and Thailand, do you think they’d be paying be benefits if I run out of money after 5 years?
Your correct, not everyone is paid the state pension, its not an automatic payment to everyone who reaches state retirement age.I want everyone to have a strong pension.
Out of interest where have you and MMB got the idea from that anyone can get the state pension even if they haven't paid in? That's simply wrong.
Then there is Pension Credits.You get a state pension based on national insurance contributions. If you claim job seekers allowance or employment and support allowance a national insurance contribution is made on your behalf.
I find it funny how you speak with such authority on subjects yet get a lot of things wrong.
Why do you keep putting words in my mouth on wanting to slash pensions?My wife as an example will get a state pension despite not working for the period we were able to clam child benefit as it qualifies you for NI credits (as does carers allowance and unemployment benefit)
Given we have Public Sector strikes in the Health Service already then its hardly realistic to suddenly start slashing their pensions - I am amazed you are suggesting it as its pretty right wing!
Also you were in favour of paying doctors more money as they demand? You do realise that this also down the line adds to the State Sector Pension Burden?
The clue is in the name ‘Working class’…underclass huh
This is a rabbit hole, but if we’re splitting hairs, the minimum state pensions eligibility is 10 years of NI contributions…I want everyone to have a strong pension.
Out of interest where have you and MMB got the idea from that anyone can get the state pension even if they haven't paid in? That's simply wrong.
V much splitting hairs here rather than dealing with fundamentals. Eligibility for state pension is qualified through NI contributions for 10 years, as you point out, you get those credits even if you’re on various benefits.You get a state pension based on national insurance contributions. If you claim job seekers allowance or employment and support allowance a national insurance contribution is made on your behalf.
I find it funny how you speak with such authority on subjects yet get a lot of things wrong.
It’s because you keep mentioning the need for pension reform. An observation I’ve (and probably Grendel) made is that you seem unaware just how much of the 50% figure you mentioned earlier is made up of public sector worker pensions.Why do you keep putting words in my mouth on wanting to slash pensions?
Why do you keep putting words in my mouth on wanting to slash pensions?
And that in turn links to a trend on the right to substitute 'reform' of something for when they actually mean 'cut'. I want to look at how we can sustainably fund a respectable standard of living for pensioners, not cut what is already a meagre sum if the figures G posted earlier are correct.It’s because you keep mentioning the need for pension reform. An observation I’ve (and probably Grendel) made is that you seem unaware just how much of the 50% figure you mentioned earlier is made up of public sector worker pensions.
The current gap on public sector pension pay outs v contributions is £93.8bn over the last 20 years, 2006-2026.
And that in turn links to a trend on the right to substitute 'reform' of something for when they actually mean 'cut'. I want to look at how we can sustainably fund a respectable standard of living for pensioners, not cut what is already a meagre sum if the figures G posted earlier are correct.
I've learned something new on NI credits and pension credits today, so thanks to the posters who've explained it and pointed it out anyway. It doesn't change the problem that I've said we're facing as a country though: people are living longer but having fewer children. It's a very dangerous combination that is going to cause a lot of pain (probably when you and I reach retirement age!) when it reaches a critical mass of not enough people paying in to support those who need the benefit.
Far from 'wanting to target pensioners' this strikes me as a huge threat to the social safety net that we can't avoid discussing just because unemployed people are a more politically convenient target.
And that in turn links to a trend on the right to substitute 'reform' of something for when they actually mean 'cut'. I want to look at how we can sustainably fund a respectable standard of living for pensioners, not cut what is already a meagre sum if the figures G posted earlier are correct.
I've learned something new on NI credits and pension credits today, so thanks to the posters who've explained it and pointed it out anyway. It doesn't change the problem that I've said we're facing as a country though: people are living longer but having fewer children. It's a very dangerous combination that is going to cause a lot of pain (probably when you and I reach retirement age!) when it reaches a critical mass of not enough people paying in to support those who need the benefit.
Far from 'wanting to target pensioners' this strikes me as a huge threat to the social safety net that we can't avoid discussing just because unemployed people are a more politically convenient target.
Which ironically, will bring down the entire system over time.The biggest pension cost is the burden of public sector workers on pensions the private sector can never now fund.
Unfortunately your “strong unions” would just strike if any reduction even got new entrants into these positions was even suggested so it’s not a conversation governments can have.
And that in turn links to a trend on the right to substitute 'reform' of something for when they actually mean 'cut'. I want to look at how we can sustainably fund a respectable standard of living for pensioners, not cut what is already a meagre sum if the figures G posted earlier are correct.
I've learned something new on NI credits and pension credits today, so thanks to the posters who've explained it and pointed it out anyway. It doesn't change the problem that I've said we're facing as a country though: people are living longer but having fewer children. It's a very dangerous combination that is going to cause a lot of pain (probably when you and I reach retirement age!) when it reaches a critical mass of not enough people paying in to support those who need the benefit.
Far from 'wanting to target pensioners' this strikes me as a huge threat to the social safety net that we can't avoid discussing just because unemployed people are a more politically convenient target.
It's about 6 years longer from what I can see which adds up to over £70k extra per head of pension payments.People aren’t living that much longer than 35 years ago in reality
It's about 6 years longer from what I can see which adds up to over £70k extra per head of pension payments.
It’s because you keep mentioning the need for pension reform. An observation I’ve (and probably Grendel) made is that you seem unaware just how much of the 50% figure you mentioned earlier is made up of public sector worker pensions.
The current gap on public sector pension pay outs v contributions is £93.8bn over the last 20 years, 2006-2026.
The government have offered a defined contribution scheme for the last 25 years alongside the 'alpha' scheme to be clear.Do you understand the differences between how public service pensions differ from the private sector?
Public sector pensions should be defined contributions plan rather than a guaranteed income. The problem the government faces is that public sector pensions aren’t fully funded, it’s a 10% deduction from your pay packet and the end pension is an IOU. It is effectively an accountancy trick to cook the treasury’s books and it’s a ticking time bomb.
Private pensions, I choose what % to contribute, employer matches it and it goes into a fund that is fully visible and to an extent, can choose what to invest in, for better or worse.
The government have offered a defined contribution scheme for the last 25 years alongside the 'alpha' scheme to be clear.
What is also missing from this is that for similar roles, private sector jobs will typically pay a fair bit better than public sector ones. The more generous pension scheme offsets some of that difference so if you make both the pay and pension less attractive, you can't be surprised if what you're left with are at best demotivated and at worst both demotivated and incompetent staff.
Snarky comments don’t wish the problem away unfortunately.Open up the workhouses again!
The biggest con job is PIP which is just handing people money who can already pay what is covers. It should just be scrapped
The number of people paying in makes no difference what so ever. Its a complete myth to suggest that too many pensioners drawing cash out of the system and not enough workers paying in will bankrupt the economy.And that in turn links to a trend on the right to substitute 'reform' of something for when they actually mean 'cut'. I want to look at how we can sustainably fund a respectable standard of living for pensioners, not cut what is already a meagre sum if the figures G posted earlier are correct.
I've learned something new on NI credits and pension credits today, so thanks to the posters who've explained it and pointed it out anyway. It doesn't change the problem that I've said we're facing as a country though: people are living longer but having fewer children. It's a very dangerous combination that is going to cause a lot of pain (probably when you and I reach retirement age!) when it reaches a critical mass of not enough people paying in to support those who need the benefit.
Far from 'wanting to target pensioners' this strikes me as a huge threat to the social safety net that we can't avoid discussing just because unemployed people are a more politically convenient target.
Good that you think my wife is pulling a con with a visual impairment GThe biggest con job is PIP which is just handing people money who can already pay what is covers. It should just be scrapped
Rather than again going into anecdotes, put up some evidence about how many people are milking the system and choosing a life of unemployment.Yep, I know several people who have milked their diagnosis of mental health/behavioural disorders to get PIP.
^ not even a moral judgement, it’s what the individuals say themselves.
Again, plenty of people who actively choose to live on welfare benefits rather than work minimum wage. Why would work 30+ hours a week to earn marginally more on UC?
The only people who don’t seem to get that these people exist are middle-class lefty types whose exposure to real poverty is limited.
I have numerous times.Rather than again going into anecdotes, put up some evidence about how many people are milking the system and choosing a life of unemployment.
There's no argument that some people do do this...but for the umpteenth time, make work pay and provide the opportunities to do it. Take former mining communities as one example, what if there really is no work going?
Snarky comments don’t wish the problem away unfortunately.
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