Immigration and Asylum (12 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Really @Ccfcisparks ? I know you weirdos like to club together, but I'm dragged in by name a day after no post and labelled stupid, but you emoji poo me asking him about City? Strange, but not surprised.

I didn’t drag you in by name, I replied to a post you made with some facts as a favour because what you posted made you look stupid. As usual you can’t take that help gracefully so went to attack the man as you can’t attack the points being made. You always have the choice to not believe the lies you’re repeating. As I just said, no one thinks you’re more stupid than the politicians who you buy into. They know what they’re spouting is BS, they just think you’re stupid enough to buy into it. You don’t have to indulge them.

 

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[rob9872]

I think this is the problem with the likes of Reform being far right and the likes of Labour being centre to centre right. Just because everyone (apart from the greens) seem to have moved to the right does not mean that is the new centre - we just have more right wing thinking (despite when asked about most issues the public tend to be more progressive). Tories are most definitely right wing in terms of economics and culture.

Just out of interest what about the Tories makes you think they aren't right wing in their ideology?

I dont think their policies are necessarily centrist and economically i agree, but with Greens moving one way and Reform/Restore the other, who between them are likely to collect about 60% of the vote between them if polls are to be believed, then anything left by definition is more central. The general direction might have moved, but if you go back to your school days for mean, mode and median, it would be interesting to see where they all fall.

 

[rob9872]

I didn’t drag you in by name, I replied to a post you made with some facts as a favour because what you posted made you look stupid. As usual you can’t take that help gracefully so went to attack the man as you can’t attack the points being made. You always have the choice to not believe the lies you’re repeating. As I just said, no one thinks you’re more stupid than the politicians who you buy into. They know what they’re spouting is BS, they just think you’re stupid enough to buy into it. You don’t have to indulge them.

Wrong again Tony, you replied to Dougins post about Ball Hill which had nothing to do with me and mentioned me 24 hours after my last post and brought me in again. You did the same on Grenners post the day before which I let slide as it was more timebound. I still disagree with your 'facts' because again you chose a specific period of time to suit your argument as always.

Eccles or Torp?

 

[CCFCSteve]

I think this is the problem with the likes of Reform being far right and the likes of Labour being centre to centre right. Just because everyone (apart from the greens) seem to have moved to the right does not mean that is the new centre - we just have more right wing thinking (despite when asked about most issues the public tend to be more progressive). Tories are most definitely right wing in terms of economics and culture.

Just out of interest what about the Tories makes you think they aren't right wing in their ideology?

There is no way the current Labour government is centre right. This is just a social media driven misconception by many on the left, which Polanski is also trying to leverage.

Here’s a few centre left/left policies and decisions off the top of my head; increasing resident docs pay without any prerequisites/commitments immediately following election, increasing taxes on all (even stricter tax on non doms), freezing tax thresholds for higher earners, removing two child benefit cap, substantial minimum wage increases especially for youth, workers rights bill, free school meals, no attempt to reduce/reform welfare spending, increasing taxes on businesses and overall increasing borrowing/spending by tens of billions per annum.

I actually agree with a couple of the above but I literally could not name any centre right policies or decisions they’ve implemented

 

[rob9872]

If wanting no net immigration whatsoever is moderate then…crikey. Don’t think even Reform have pushed that have they?

You're misquoting me again. As you very well know my net migration theory is purely economical and I've mentioned nothing about any repatriation and simply had a time limit. Its unsustainable. I said pause net migration until we have the infrastructure eg housing and services, we simply dont have enough resources currently for what we have, every additional headcount makes that worse. That's not left, right or anything else, but imo reasonable. Net zero also means we continue to accept but only based on the number who emigrate, which is currently stoll about 500k per year.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You're misquoting me again. As you very well know my net migration theory is purely economical and I've mentioned nothing about any repatriation and simply had a time limit. Its unsustainable. I said pause net migration until we have the infrastructure eg housing and services, we simply dont have enough resources currently for what we have, every additional headcount makes that worse. That's not left, right or anything else, but imo reasonable. Net zero also means we continue to accept but only based on the number who emigrate, which is currently stoll about 500k per year.

How have you been misquoted? No net immigration is what I had you down as saying.

None of the parties with a chance of forming the next government are advocating that (currently), so it’s not a moderate position.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There is no way the current Labour government is centre right. This is just a social media driven misconception by many on the left, which Polanski is also trying to leverage.

Here’s a few centre left/left policies and decisions off the top of my head; increasing resident docs pay without any prerequisites/commitments immediately following election, increasing taxes on all (even stricter tax on non doms), freezing tax thresholds for higher earners, removing two child benefit cap, substantial minimum wage increases especially for youth, workers rights bill, free school meals, no attempt to reduce/reform welfare spending, increasing taxes on businesses and overall increasing borrowing/spending by tens of billions per annum.

I actually agree with a couple of the above but I literally could not name any centre right policies or decisions they’ve implemented

Free school meals remain heavily means tested, they should be universal. There is however a big mischaracterisation of progressive tax policies which I think you’re guilty of here: the assumption that ‘the left’ want higher taxes across the board. That grinds my gears a fair bit.

 

[rob9872]

How have you been misquoted? No net immigration is what I had you down as saying.

None of the parties with a chance of forming the next government are advocating that (currently), so it’s not a moderate position.

By adding the word 'whatsoever', as I've clearly pointed out to you many times there is a difference between pause and being forever.

I also think that if many potential Reform voters didn't believe the answer was at least zero then they would lose a lot of credibility, but the grifters have never been brave enough to actually put a number to it, which is actually a smart thing to do since they are pretty much a one policy party.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

By adding the word 'whatsoever', as I've clearly pointed out to you many times there is a difference between pause and being forever.

I also think that if many potential Reform voters didn't believe the answer was at least zero then they would lose a lot of credibility, but the grifters have never been brave enough to actually put a number to it, which is actually a smart thing to do since they are pretty much a one policy party.

Whatsoever in the sense of the number zero rather than however long you see it going for.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

There is no way the current Labour government is centre right. This is just a social media driven misconception by many on the left, which Polanski is also trying to leverage.

Here’s a few centre left/left policies and decisions off the top of my head; increasing resident docs pay without any prerequisites/commitments immediately following election, increasing taxes on all (even stricter tax on non doms), freezing tax thresholds for higher earners, removing two child benefit cap, substantial minimum wage increases especially for youth, workers rights bill, free school meals, no attempt to reduce/reform welfare spending, increasing taxes on businesses and overall increasing borrowing/spending by tens of billions per annum.

I actually agree with a couple of the above but I literally could not name any centre right policies or decisions they’ve implemented

Their immigration approach is a bit right

 

[CCFCSteve]

Free school meals remain heavily means tested, they should be universal. There is however a big mischaracterisation of progressive tax policies which I think you’re guilty of here: the assumption that ‘the left’ want higher taxes across the board. That grinds my gears a fair bit.

My point was more that those things listed aren’t centre right policies/decisions so the attempts by those on the more ideological left to portray the government as that are at best disingenuous. Polanski also smells blood so he’s leaning into that rhetoric in the hope of picking up disenchanted and ill informed Labour voters

 

[rob9872]

Whatsoever in the sense of the number zero rather than however long you see it going for.

Semantics really, but adds a level as net zero is net zero and doesn't need anything adding, other than I've consistently said only for a time period until our own house is in order.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

My point was more that those things listed aren’t centre right policies/decisions so the attempts by those on the more ideological left to portray the government as that are at best disingenuous. Polanski also smells blood so he’s leaning into that rhetoric in the hope of picking up disenchanted and ill informed Labour voters

That makes sense and I agree it’s what Polanski is aiming for. I’d still characterise this government as centrist though.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Their immigration approach is a bit right

I’d not say so Pete. They need to get proper control of the asylum situation. By all accounts some of the stuff they’re looking to bring in isn’t dissimilar to Denmarks government (left leaning). Whether the PLP allows it, who knows

If you want further right, have a look at the recent EUs vote on asylum/deportations

European Parliament approves return hubs outside the EU

MEPs approved a law enabling member states to build deportation centres outside the EU, endorsing talks with non-recognised third-country entities and imposing entry bans on returned migrants. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

or Merz (Germany) saying he expects 80% of Syrian refugees to return home within three years