Immigration and Asylum (9 Viewers)

[PVA]

People on this forum have a tendency to try and make those aged between 16-35 the bad guy.

Not just this forum, it's a general issue.

The worst kind are those who seem to want younger generations to go through hardship, as some sort of moral life lesson, rather than wanting better for future generations.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

You seem to be suggesting reducing pensions that are already being paid out.

The statement is not incorrect either

It’s a huge own goal too because a massive % of the pension bill is public sector pensions. IIRC, BSB and others have argued against reforming public sector pensions.

Without being too harsh, there’s a certain cowardice to reform various systems that obvious dysfunctional. Labour was founded as a party for trade unionist, working people… not the underclass for do not work. Loss of this focus is why centre-left parties across Europe are being decimated, priorities are all over the place.

1m UC claimants had no requirement to work in 2021, that’s no 4m in 2025. In 4 years it’s quadrupled...

Of course, let’s go after pensioners who have by and large, paid into the system their entire lives.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You seem to be suggesting reducing pensions that are already being paid out.

The statement is not incorrect either

Are you saying that people can receive the state pension if they've never paid into the system? I've not written anywhere that the pension should be reduced.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Of course, let’s go after pensioners who have by and large, paid into the system their entire lives.

And it's emotional lines like this which prevent meaningful discussion. We can't and won't ever have a serious discussion on pensions because it's too uncomfortable, so instead we'll focus on smearing the group that contributes a much smaller proportion of the total.

 

[LarryGrayson]

underclass huh

 

[Grendel]

And it's emotional lines like this which prevent meaningful discussion. We can't and won't ever have a serious discussion on pensions because it's too uncomfortable, so instead we'll focus on smearing the group that contributes a much smaller proportion of the total.

I assume you are also referring to public sector workers here so would want doctors teachers etc to have reduced pensions?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I assume you are also referring to public sector workers here so would want doctors teachers etc to have reduced pensions?

I want everyone to have a strong pension.

Out of interest where have you and MMB got the idea from that anyone can get the state pension even if they haven't paid in? That's simply wrong.

 

[PVA]

underclass huh

Open up the workhouses again!

 

[Grendel]

I want everyone to have a strong pension.

Out of interest where have you and MMB got the idea from that anyone can get the state pension even if they haven't paid in? That's simply wrong.

Unemployment still gives you pension credits. Stay at home parents and carers also get pension contributions included

You say you want strong pensions but you are aware the biggest burden on the state regarding pensions is the public sector pension arrangement which is massively in debt?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Unemployment still gives you pension credits. Stay at home parents and carers also get pension contributions included

You say you want strong pensions but you are aware the biggest burden on the state regarding pensions is the public sector pension arrangement which is massively in debt?

Pension credit is separate to the state pension.

The way we finance pensions and the big problems we have on the horizon related to that are what I think should be our biggest focus since we're spending half our welfare bill on it. It's curious to call wanting to discuss how we solve these problems an 'own goal' as he put it.

 

[Grendel]

Pension credit is separate to the state pension.

The way we finance pensions and the big problems we have on the horizon related to that are what I think should be our biggest focus since we're spending half our welfare bill on it. It's curious to call wanting to discuss how we solve these problems an 'own goal' as he put it.

My wife as an example will get a state pension despite not working for the period we were able to clam child benefit as it qualifies you for NI credits (as does carers allowance and unemployment benefit)

Given we have Public Sector strikes in the Health Service already then its hardly realistic to suddenly start slashing their pensions - I am amazed you are suggesting it as its pretty right wing!

Also you were in favour of paying doctors more money as they demand? You do realise that this also down the line adds to the State Sector Pension Burden?

 

[Grendel]

To clarify on NI credits

National Insurance credits​

National Insurance credits are essential for protecting your future entitlement to state benefits and the state pension. These credits can be received even if you are not working, and they count towards some, but not all entitlements. The main benefit they count towards is the state pension. To be eligible for National Insurance credits, you must be aged 16 or over and below state pension age for the year in which you may be credited. There are different types of National Insurance credits, and the type you might receive depends on your individual circumstances. For example, if you are responsible for a child or children, you may be able to get National Insurance credits that count towards the state pension. If you are aged 16 or over and claim child benefit for looking after a child under the age of 12, you will automatically receive class 3 National Insurance credits.

Acumen Financial Partnership™

 

[fernandopartridge]

Children don’t get state handouts and pensioners qualify for state pension based on tax they’ve paid. As for severely disabled people who can’t work, they need state support. Not people with low level ADHD and Austin’s/Aspergers.

Why doesn’t it apply to migrants because the social contract is between British citizens and the British state? If a foreign national cannot sustain themselves, they should leave and if their circumstances change, reapply to enter the country. This is a v basic concept practiced globally. If I wanted to relocate to UAE, Australia and Thailand, do you think they’d be paying be benefits if I run out of money after 5 years?

You get a state pension based on national insurance contributions. If you claim job seekers allowance or employment and support allowance a national insurance contribution is made on your behalf.

I find it funny how you speak with such authority on subjects yet get a lot of things wrong.

 

[fatso]

I want everyone to have a strong pension.

Out of interest where have you and MMB got the idea from that anyone can get the state pension even if they haven't paid in? That's simply wrong.

Your correct, not everyone is paid the state pension, its not an automatic payment to everyone who reaches state retirement age.

However, for those who havnt paid any NI contributions (or stamp) and dont qualify for an automatic pension, they can claim almost the exact same amount of money through the benefits system. (Off the top of my head its about £1 a week less than the state pension)

 

[Captain Dart]

You get a state pension based on national insurance contributions. If you claim job seekers allowance or employment and support allowance a national insurance contribution is made on your behalf.

I find it funny how you speak with such authority on subjects yet get a lot of things wrong.

Then there is Pension Credits.
Pension Credit tops up: your weekly income to £227.10 if you’re single, your joint weekly income to £346.60 if you have a partner
The full rate of new State Pension is £230.25 a week.

Pension Credit

Pension Credit is extra money for pensioners to bring your weekly income up to a minimum amount - what you'll get, apply, eligibility.

www.gov.uk

So sod all difference.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

My wife as an example will get a state pension despite not working for the period we were able to clam child benefit as it qualifies you for NI credits (as does carers allowance and unemployment benefit)

Given we have Public Sector strikes in the Health Service already then its hardly realistic to suddenly start slashing their pensions - I am amazed you are suggesting it as its pretty right wing!

Also you were in favour of paying doctors more money as they demand? You do realise that this also down the line adds to the State Sector Pension Burden?

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth on wanting to slash pensions?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

underclass huh

The clue is in the name ‘Working class’…

I want everyone to have a strong pension.

Out of interest where have you and MMB got the idea from that anyone can get the state pension even if they haven't paid in? That's simply wrong.

This is a rabbit hole, but if we’re splitting hairs, the minimum state pensions eligibility is 10 years of NI contributions…

As @fernandopartridge points out, NI credits are paid on claimants behalf. In practice, it’s v difficult to not be eligible for state pensions if you’re UK born.

You get a state pension based on national insurance contributions. If you claim job seekers allowance or employment and support allowance a national insurance contribution is made on your behalf.

I find it funny how you speak with such authority on subjects yet get a lot of things wrong.

V much splitting hairs here rather than dealing with fundamentals. Eligibility for state pension is qualified through NI contributions for 10 years, as you point out, you get those credits even if you’re on various benefits.

You’ve actually not undermined my point at all, but took a pot shot because I weren’t aware NI credits were given on certain benefits. Whoopy doo, the picture is still the same as I presented in that post.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth on wanting to slash pensions?

It’s because you keep mentioning the need for pension reform. An observation I’ve (and probably Grendel) made is that you seem unaware just how much of the 50% figure you mentioned earlier is made up of public sector worker pensions.

The current gap on public sector pension pay outs v contributions is £93.8bn over the last 20 years, 2006-2026.

 

[Grendel]

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth on wanting to slash pensions?

You said it’s the biggest cost therefore needs looking at?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s because you keep mentioning the need for pension reform. An observation I’ve (and probably Grendel) made is that you seem unaware just how much of the 50% figure you mentioned earlier is made up of public sector worker pensions.

The current gap on public sector pension pay outs v contributions is £93.8bn over the last 20 years, 2006-2026.

And that in turn links to a trend on the right to substitute 'reform' of something for when they actually mean 'cut'. I want to look at how we can sustainably fund a respectable standard of living for pensioners, not cut what is already a meagre sum if the figures G posted earlier are correct.

I've learned something new on NI credits and pension credits today, so thanks to the posters who've explained it and pointed it out anyway. It doesn't change the problem that I've said we're facing as a country though: people are living longer but having fewer children. It's a very dangerous combination that is going to cause a lot of pain (probably when you and I reach retirement age!) when it reaches a critical mass of not enough people paying in to support those who need the benefit.

Far from 'wanting to target pensioners' this strikes me as a huge threat to the social safety net that we can't avoid discussing just because unemployed people are a more politically convenient target.

 

[Grendel]

And that in turn links to a trend on the right to substitute 'reform' of something for when they actually mean 'cut'. I want to look at how we can sustainably fund a respectable standard of living for pensioners, not cut what is already a meagre sum if the figures G posted earlier are correct.

I've learned something new on NI credits and pension credits today, so thanks to the posters who've explained it and pointed it out anyway. It doesn't change the problem that I've said we're facing as a country though: people are living longer but having fewer children. It's a very dangerous combination that is going to cause a lot of pain (probably when you and I reach retirement age!) when it reaches a critical mass of not enough people paying in to support those who need the benefit.

Far from 'wanting to target pensioners' this strikes me as a huge threat to the social safety net that we can't avoid discussing just because unemployed people are a more politically convenient target.

The biggest pension cost is the burden of public sector workers on pensions the private sector can never now fund.

Unfortunately your “strong unions” would just strike if any reduction even got new entrants into these positions was even suggested so it’s not a conversation governments can have.

 

[Grendel]

And that in turn links to a trend on the right to substitute 'reform' of something for when they actually mean 'cut'. I want to look at how we can sustainably fund a respectable standard of living for pensioners, not cut what is already a meagre sum if the figures G posted earlier are correct.

I've learned something new on NI credits and pension credits today, so thanks to the posters who've explained it and pointed it out anyway. It doesn't change the problem that I've said we're facing as a country though: people are living longer but having fewer children. It's a very dangerous combination that is going to cause a lot of pain (probably when you and I reach retirement age!) when it reaches a critical mass of not enough people paying in to support those who need the benefit.

Far from 'wanting to target pensioners' this strikes me as a huge threat to the social safety net that we can't avoid discussing just because unemployed people are a more politically convenient target.

People aren’t living that much longer than 35 years ago in reality