Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
That quote as written is factually accurate and reads a bit differently to someone saying they're all doctors and engineers so let them all in.
That quote as written is factually accurate and reads a bit differently to someone saying they're all doctors and engineers so let them all in.“Among the refugees are doctors, engineers, scientists and journalists such as myself who led stable and successful lives until we were forced to flee to survive.” To save you trawling through the article.
What do asylum seekers and refugees make of the eruption of far-right violence in the UK? We asked them
Our panel talks about the riots, their fear, the racial harassment they are experiencing and their hope that inclusive values will prevailwww.theguardian.com
We have private healthcare providers in this country as well do we not?Most doctors who leave go to countries that have an element of two tier healthcare - the system here just does not work.
You didn't talk about Grooming Gangs. You talked about a large chunk of a whole segment of the population. It's a bit of leap to go from less than 300 people being guilty of horrific crimes to implying hundreds of thousands of men of a certain heritage see white women as trash, good only for their sexual gratification.
We have private healthcare providers in this country as well do we not?
It’s more the point you started by saying “a large proportion of muslim pakistanis males” and then backed it up showing stats showing “a large proportion of sex offenders are pakistanis” if you can’t see the difference then fair enoughWell you went on some quantum leap “white people are the same” - I did talk about grooming gangs as I said this is a racially motivated form of abuse. Its tatgeted on the colour of a victims skin.
See above, I'm not wedded to the current system, what I want to preserve is free at the point of use healthcare. I've also explained my reservations about how a privately run/publicly funded system would work in this country as what's happened with education is a good indicator.Most use NHS surgeons but that’s not the point. The point is these countries do not have an NHS as we do at all
It’s more the point you started by saying “a large proportion of muslim pakistanis males” and then backed it up showing stats showing “a large proportion of sex offenders are pakistanis” if you can’t see the difference then fair enough
It’s common for the UK to have this mongrel set up of half in and half out nationalisation/privstisation. Generally, you get the worst of both worlds.I'm happy with any form of universal healthcare that remains free at the point of use, not wedded to the government owning all the buildings and employing all the staff.
The issue I have is we have seen from the education sector that privately run but publicly funded set ups have diverted funds from the frontline service and into the hands of executives and other people whose roles didn't previously exist. The frontline service has then suffered more as a result.
Cat's out of the bag there.It’s common for the UK to have this mongrel set up of half in and half out nationalisation/privstisation. Generally, you get the worst of both worlds.
Take the trains for example, in practice it is privatised because it’s run by a private company different franchises but the government owns (leases out) the equipment and the lines as a nationalised enterprise would. The government has effectively franchised the railways.
Private companies race to the bottom on price to win the contract, to then pass this onto to consumers with price increases and because the state monopolies is franchised out, there’s no real competition to provide a better service.
Taking that model and applying across different public services will have the same outcomes imo. Either fully nationalise or privatise one way or the other.
yes but that still doesn’t diverge from the fact your original statement wasn’t quite rightThe Casey report said I believe that there are 800 to 1,000 cases not even being fully investigated and most will have offenders of Pakistani origin.
Oh he also said a large proportion of white men do this as well.
It’s a race issue
yes but that still doesn’t diverge from the fact your original statement wasn’t quite right
OK and you were asked for the stats to back that statement up and produced something that didn’t. that’s all i’m pointing out.I didn’t say majority I said a large proportion are racist and view white women as inferior. I stand by that.
See above, I'm not wedded to the current system, what I want to preserve is free at the point of use healthcare. I've also explained my reservations about how a privately run/publicly funded system would work in this country as what's happened with education is a good indicator.
OK and you were asked for the stats to back that statement up and produced something that didn’t. that’s all i’m pointing out.
Can u share the post, despite this being silly whataboutismWell some people on here post that anyone who votes reform are racist, I can’t recall you challenging that?
Who’s actually verified that and as a %, is it representative? No. The Guardian are presenting this issue in an underhand way imo.That quote as written is factually accurate and reads a bit differently to someone saying they're all doctors and engineers so let them all in.
That’s an interesting distinction between grooming and paedophile groupsok
Grooming gang convictions '84% Asian', say researchers
A think-tank report finds there is a demographic link to those who sexually exploit children in grooming gangs.news.sky.com
I’m not in favour of privatising everything. There are good arguments for nationalised train services supported by private services.Cat's out of the bag there.
Well, the immigration system is being abused in the name of ‘family reunification and right to family life’.how does the government identify arranged marriages compared to non arranged
Can u share the post, despite this being silly whataboutism
Can you share the posts please.Its not at all whataboutism as I stand by what I say
But the argument was banning arranged marriages. How do you prove something is arranged.I’m not in favour of privatising everything. There are good arguments for nationalised train services supported by private services.
Well, the immigration system is being abused in the name of ‘family reunification and right to family life’.
In practice, a lot of communities will go back to countries like Pakistan, get married then bring their new wife over. In Bradford, 32% of children were have foreign-born mothers. A disproportionate amount of 2nd and 3rd generation migrants marry a spouse from their country of origin.
We can’t stop that, but clearly we should restrict those visas. It’s yet another example of; how migration is snowballing and how there are some cultures are less willing to integrate than others.
Take a read:
The quote was 'among the refugees are...' which is true. The percentage will not be super high I grant, but it's not wrong to point it out when some people are busy tarring every asylum seeker with the same brush.Who’s actually verified that and as a %, is it representative? No. The Guardian are presenting this issue in an underhand way imo.
The quote is implicitly misleading because it’s taking the exception to justify making it the rule [to accept small boats]. There will be a small
% of high skill people on these boats. In reality, most small boat migrants will end up being net-tax drains on the economy and the social impacts (crime) are too numerous to ignore.
Since 2018, at a guesstimate there’s probably been around 100-150k small boat migrants. How many journalists, computer scientists, engineers and doctors have arrived?
The policy turn back the boats, process claims in a 3rd country. If there’s are people who will be high skill individuals, fast track their claims if competency can be proved and give them a route to settlement. Low skill, genuine refugees should be granted asylum on a temporary basis and family reunification should be restricted.
That is a fair outline of a policy. Letting one and all come and then process their claims in hotels in small, local communities where is often problems with anti-social to criminal behaviour is a public policy disaster and needs a course correction.
Well you went on some quantum leap “white people are the same” - I did talk about grooming gangs as I said this is a racially motivated form of abuse. Its tatgeted on the colour of a victims skin.
The report says CEOP, an official government body, identifies two types of group-based child sexual exploitation offenders.
Type 1 offenders were those that targeted their victims based on their vulnerability (roughly equivalent of grooming gangs), whereas Type 2 offenders target children as a result of a specific sexual interest in children (roughly equivalent of paedophile rings).
CEOP found that 75% of Type 1 offenders were of Asian ethnicity, whereas 100% of Type 2 offenders were white
Sure, I just get the impression you'd prefer us to be closer to the American system than this one based on what you wrote.I’m not in favour of privatising everything. There are good arguments for nationalised train services supported by private services.
Co’mon now, use your noggin.But the argument was banning arranged marriages. How do you prove something is arranged.
So all arranged marriages are between a UK based spouse, and a foreign based spouse? Sorry, I'm a bit lost.Co’mon now, use your noggin.
If you deny the foreign spouse access into the country… they can’t settle down.
There’s no point banning the marriages per se because people will find a loophole. For example, an Islamic marriage (the same for most religions) is religious ceremony, not legal one.
There are all sorts of complexities here though.
A lot of funding I assume goes into training health professionals in this country - so others poaching them can spend more as the cost of training hasn’t been factored in.
It could I suppose be conceivable the uk offers doctors free training and if they leave abroad they then pay it back
Can u share the post, despite this being silly whataboutism
You keep going back to the conventions. They’re not legally binding so if we have to suspend/withdraw from them, that’s what we need to do.The quote was 'among the refugees are...' which is true. The percentage will not be super high I grant, but it's not wrong to point it out when some people are busy tarring every asylum seeker with the same brush.
Your other points conflict with the refugee convention which we've discussed before so won't go over old ground on that one.
Not necessarily. It can be UK-UK marriage or a UK-foreign born spouse. I don’t think a ‘ban’ is practical per se (@Grendel can argue those merits). However:So all arranged marriages are between a UK based spouse, and a foreign based spouse? Sorry, I'm a bit lost.
Sorry, don't people have to pay tuition fees for degrees in medicine? Or do you mean training after that?There are all sorts of complexities here though.
A lot of funding I assume goes into training health professionals in this country - so others poaching them can spend more as the cost of training hasn’t been factored in.
It could I suppose be conceivable the uk offers doctors free training and if they leave abroad they then pay it back
Sorry, don't people have to pay tuition fees for degrees in medicine? Or do you mean training after that?
No doctors, engineers, or journalists out of over 100,000 people? Hmmm. But OK.You keep going back to the conventions. They’re not legally binding so if we have to suspend/withdraw from them, that’s what we need to do.
In any case, most of the points do not contravene these conventions. What do you have in mind when you made this point?
Australia has signed the 1951 refugee convention and processes asylum claims in 3rd countries and turns back the boats.
On the quote, it’s not verified. The person quoted could’ve said there's Premiership footballers amongst them… doesn’t make it true.
No doctors, engineers, or journalists out of over 100,000 people? Hmmm. But OK.
I made the point as you suggested discriminating based on skills/earnings which I don't think is permitted by the convention.
ok
Grooming gang convictions '84% Asian', say researchers
A think-tank report finds there is a demographic link to those who sexually exploit children in grooming gangs.news.sky.com
Research has found that group-based child sexual exploitation offenders are most commonly white. Some studies suggest an overrepresentation of black and Asian offenders relative to the demographics of national populations. However, it is not possible to conclude that this is representative of all group-based CSE offending.
– Home Office[45]
What proportion specifically? Or is “large” as specific as we’re going to get from you on this?I didn’t say majority I said a large proportion are racist and view white women as inferior. I stand by that.
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