rob9872
Well-Known Member
Is NQ non qualified? Sorry if not, only guessing.
Immigration and Asylum (16 Viewers)
- Thread starter mmttww
- Start date
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Newly qualified.
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
My partner is middle band 6 as a midwife and is on circa 45k
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Ok thanks. Also you said Band 5. I know she's only newly qualified, but also band 6 so I don't know how that differs in salary, but also why more than one entry level?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Mine got up to band 6 and then we left - I think she was on about 36k at that point.
DT-R
Well-Known Member
Id take a guess at newly qualified. Could be wrong though
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rob9872
Well-Known Member
Ah that's similar to what i just posted, but also is only newly qualified, so I don't know how that stacks up or if it's different by region. She's Worcestershire if that has any bearing.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
No idea! As far as I’m aware band 5 is for newly qualified. She was only early 20s though so maybe an age thing/other wider work experience ?
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
Mine is Birmingham, shes been band 6 about 3 years now, but did train as a midwife in Uni
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Increase funding to train more domestically and scale down the need to import the labour.
You can’t justify the immigration system on the NHS. Particularly when the government is cutting funding for training spaces and trainee roles in the NHS, such as nurses and doctors.
Why do you and others dumb the argument down to nurses and midwives? They and their dependents are not free. There was an example where there was an average of 9 dependents arriving with Zimbabwean migrants via the health care visa route. This is an obvious abuse and not even a good economic trade off. I doubt many of the male small boat migrants will be doing courses in midwifery.
You’ve missed the point. The citizenship routes were most likely a historical legacy from having huge numbers of Italian/Irish people leave the home land and your population declining.
My point was these laws probably aren’t tenable in the context where net migration is in the hundreds of thousands because this will probably open up a can of worms down the line.
Citizenship, imo shouldn’t be granted automatically upon birth. Even today, you need a ILR before your children are naturalised at birth. Personally, I’d bump that up to citizen status and only grant citizenship whereby people have clean criminal records, financially self-sufficient. What most countries do.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Funnily enough the babies have the same issuesloads of problems getting sheet and shit mixed up
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Once again today we're about 3 pages in arguing who is to blame, who is racist, which flavour of politician is culpable, wages, shortages in professions and other wide-ranging points.
Not a single post on how to tackle what is clearly a problem and only Pete acknowledging the victims, which is the saddest and most important point.
I'm not absolving my own responsibility in this either, I'm as guilty for as much of that as most of you who I'm calling out on the same, but these circular trends are apparent on this thread, the politics and many others.
I think I need to do what shmmeee has done and take a break from off-topic. Nothing is ever solved, it's not why I use this forum and it only winds me up even more tbh
Not a single post on how to tackle what is clearly a problem and only Pete acknowledging the victims, which is the saddest and most important point.
I'm not absolving my own responsibility in this either, I'm as guilty for as much of that as most of you who I'm calling out on the same, but these circular trends are apparent on this thread, the politics and many others.
I think I need to do what shmmeee has done and take a break from off-topic. Nothing is ever solved, it's not why I use this forum and it only winds me up even more tbh
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
The issue is just as much about wages.
Not enough local people are willing to go through all that for the wages offered for the position. So if you want that you've got to increase the wages and conditions. But suggest that and it's "Oh no! That would cause inflation and be bad!"
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I’m happy to provide it. Are you happy to have an indentikit system if the countries that can pay these salaries?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Migrant arrives aged 25 to retirement (modelled up to 100)… how much tax they pay v cost of public services they consume. Frankly speaking, the costs seem to focus on the pensions.
I’m note entirely sure how they modelled the exact costings of schooling (migrants have children too) and the NHS (if at all).
Likewise, the costs of building infrastructure such as roads and housing seem to have gone completely under the radar. It becomes apparent that the economic assumptions of immigration held in the 90-00s are increasingly coming into question.
Not all migrants are of equal economic value, even in the EU, a western EU migrant (Benelux, France and Germany) tended to be higher skill and income than one of the 2004 expansion countries. Since Brexit, we’ve gone further and supplanted EEA migration with non-EEA migration. Generally, lower income and lower skill than EEA migration.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
On the contrary I think it's actually shown there's a lot more overlap between people's views on this topic than they thought which has to be a useful thing. Compare it to what gets exchanged in other social media sites and although it's sometimes heated it's generally far more respectful.Once again today we're about 3 pages in arguing who is to blame, who is racist, which flavour of politician is culpable, wages, shortages in professions and other wide-ranging points.
Not a single post on how to tackle what is clearly a problem and only Pete acknowledging the victims, which is the saddest and most important point.
I'm not absolving my own responsibility in this either, I'm as guilty for as much of that as most of you who I'm calling out on the same, but these circular trends are apparent on this thread, the politics and many others.
I think I need to do what shmmeee has done and take a break from off-topic. Nothing is ever solved, it's not why I use this forum and it only winds me up even more tbh
Nobody is on team grooming gang on here, that goes without saying.
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
I posed the question on how do we decide who in families of groomers to deport as you suggested, as well as the question where do you deport UK born but 2nd/3rd generation immigrants.Once again today we're about 3 pages in arguing who is to blame, who is racist, which flavour of politician is culpable, wages, shortages in professions and other wide-ranging points.
Not a single post on how to tackle what is clearly a problem and only Pete acknowledging the victims, which is the saddest and most important point.
I'm not absolving my own responsibility in this either, I'm as guilty for as much of that as most of you who I'm calling out on the same, but these circular trends are apparent on this thread, the politics and many others.
I think I need to do what shmmeee has done and take a break from off-topic. Nothing is ever solved, it's not why I use this forum and it only winds me up even more tbh
Did you respond?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What does such a system look like?
The table below details the starting and top-of-band salaries for an NHS Band 5 employee in England for 2015/16 and 2025/26 (salaries may vary in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland).
| Pay Point | 2015/16 Salary | 2025/26 Salary |
|---|---|---|
| Entry (Starting) | £21,692 | £31,049 |
| Mid | £25,783 (approximate) | £33,487 |
| Top of Band | £28,462 (approximate) | £37,796 |
The NHS Band 6 salary has seen a significant increase between 2015 and 2025, with the
starting salary rising from approximately £25,783 in April 2015 to £38,682 in April 2025in England. This represents an increase of approximately 50% over the decade.
add the benefits like pensions etc and guessing band 5 is £35k+ package
The beauty of Google !!
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Do you think importing labour from low income countries is conducive for wage growth?
What causes wage growth? Typically the market corrects itself when it’s competing for labour. Remember the HGV driver shortage a few years ago? Wages spiked.
In any case, the government is in all sorts of problems on ‘the budget’ and the only thing it’s really done is increase public sector pay… let’s see how unions like it when income tax increases wipes out a significant % of the pay rises negotiated.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Unions and other people don't mind paying higher tax if there's something tangible in return. The problem in this country for a long time has been paying through the nose for most things but getting a shitter deal year on year.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I mean if you can find quotes of people saying that then crack on
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Canada and Australia have socialised insurance systems. We’re one of the only countries where healthcare is completely socialised, all the healthcare workers are government employees and the buildings are owned by the government. As of right now, I just think that’s too much to be responsible for.
Probably a radical idea, but the NHS should be for UK citizens only. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect foreign-born residents to be self-sufficient and have their own private health insurance.
The NHS wasn’t created with the challenges of the 21st century in mind; net migration was on average 50k per year and we had a much younger population.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
ok
Grooming gang convictions '84% Asian', say researchers
A think-tank report finds there is a demographic link to those who sexually exploit children in grooming gangs.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well you can ban all faith schools for a start. Also look at banning oppressive clothing. Ban arranged marriages etc
Marty
Well-Known Member
ok
Grooming gang convictions '84% Asian', say researchers
A think-tank report finds there is a demographic link to those who sexually exploit children in grooming gangs.news.sky.com
I wouldn't waste your time, he'll only start crying about how he can't afford to live in Kenilworth again and that they're all such nasty people.
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
how does the government identify arranged marriages compared to non arranged
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I'm happy with any form of universal healthcare that remains free at the point of use, not wedded to the government owning all the buildings and employing all the staff.
The issue I have is we have seen from the education sector that privately run but publicly funded set ups have diverted funds from the frontline service and into the hands of executives and other people whose roles didn't previously exist. The frontline service has then suffered more as a result.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I didn't tbf so I will then I'm out. this is my opinion only, no sources, so if people disagree fine. Right tin hat on here goes:
If the person in the grooming gang is UK born, but the parents were immigrants, then deport them too and siblings. If that means those who come here bring the children up to know it's a risk of all being deported, then I'd like to think it would be drummed into them the risk and how that might affect the wider family and reduce it almost immediately. From my very limited knowledge, most of the Muslim community even those who possibly view white teenage girls as trash, are often very family orientated in all other ways and wouldn't risk bringing harm or shame or deportation on their wider family.
If they are second generation British born, then as far as I'm concerned they are British and should be dealt with through the court system like you or I and serve an appropriate jail sentence.
For third generation they are of course all British so it's conviction and prison.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Most doctors who leave go to countries that have an element of two tier healthcare - the system here just does not work.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
Grooming gang convictions '84% Asian', say researchers
A think-tank report finds there is a demographic link to those who sexually exploit children in grooming gangs.
You didn't talk about Grooming Gangs. You talked about a large chunk of a whole segment of the population. It's a bit of leap to go from less than 300 people being guilty of horrific crimes to implying hundreds of thousands of men of a certain heritage see white women as trash, good only for their sexual gratification.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
“Among the refugees are doctors, engineers, scientists and journalists such as myself who led stable and successful lives until we were forced to flee to survive.” To save you trawling through the article.
What do asylum seekers and refugees make of the eruption of far-right violence in the UK? We asked them
Our panel talks about the riots, their fear, the racial harassment they are experiencing and their hope that inclusive values will prevail