If no ground agreement

Discussion in 'Coventry City General Chat' started by zuni, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. Neutral Fan

    Neutral Fan Member

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    They set a precedent when they allowed Wimbledon FC to be franchised. Birmingham would be SISU's most likely destination for their club. Or West London? Wasps in reverse.
     
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  2. dongonzalos

    dongonzalos Well-Known Member

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    The rules are there.

    They have stuck to their guns in the past.

    They demanded a million pound bond off SISU last time.

    That was to move to Notthampton temporarily whilst we built our own stadium.
    We then returned to the Ricoh temporarily, whilst we built our own stadium.
    4 years later without a blade of grass bought, If we ask to go off on our travels again. I can't see the FL league asking for less in terms of assurance from the owners that we will return.
     
  3. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    The football league were involved with the butts and happy with it weren't they? Wether we think it was viable or not they were involved with that, and will have all the documents "blocking" it.
     
  4. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    This is along the lines of my thoughts too. It's possible SISU could win *more* by hanging on, than by outbidding Wasps then.

    The only precedents we have to look at really are US Sports, and stadium moves, franchise moves are a fraught business. Some stadia find their price cycling down and down through a succession of teams. That's not to say, of course, that Wasps will fail... far from it - it's entirely possible that they will succeed and the SISU play will fail dismally. It does however stagger me that so many people blithely accept Wasps will succeed in embedding when so much is up in the air at present.
     
  5. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    Which part of the rules would be a problem?
     
  6. dongonzalos

    dongonzalos Well-Known Member

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    The local area one.
    They have blocked in the past because a club couldn't give concrete enough assurance.
    What was the point of the million pound bond last time.
    If this time they will just say of course off you go.
    Also how do they safeguard against franchising if they just let people go without such assurances?

    Non of this really answers the main question why would SUSU move unless it is somewhere local
     
  7. skyblue1991

    skyblue1991 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you have my guarantee that they will charge us more for rent than the current rate.

    Bookmark my response for future reference.

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
     
  8. Sky Blue Kid

    Sky Blue Kid Well-Known Member

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    Now let me get this right... The only way you could guarantee anything is if you already were privvy to the Wasps inside information... Are you?
     
  9. skyblue1991

    skyblue1991 Well-Known Member

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    Let me take a leaf out of your book and answer a question with a question:

    Can you guarantee to me that Wasps will offer a rental deal that equals the current rental deal as of today?

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
     
  10. Sky Blue Kid

    Sky Blue Kid Well-Known Member

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    Sorry mate wrong poster for that, you need to reply to Nick :)
    Oh and BTW, where have I said I would guarantee anything? I simply replied to your post(Which about 7-8 of you have done to my post whilst talking to someone else) when you asked someone if they would guarantee a price. My reply was to say to you "Could you guarantee the opposite, nothing more ;)
     
  11. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    Well if the rent goes up then so the CCFC cut of parking & F&B needs to increase to compensate and provide enhanced income potential.
    Then it is more important for CCFC to drive up crowds, which in my opinion wouldn't be a bad thing.
     
  12. Frankley

    Frankley Active Member

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    Your history of the Brighton and Hove Albion ground saga misses the point that the club was ultimately moved to Gillingham for the 1997-8 and 1998-99 seasons and that this move was allowed despite the fact there was no 'concrete evidence' of a plan to return the club to the Brighton and Hove area (they hadn't even identified a site for a ground to be built).

    When the Seagulls did return to Brighton and Hove for the 1999-2000 season it was to the Withdean Stadium (capacity c.9000). Brighton and Hove Albion played at the adapted athletics site until 2011 and didn't move to Falmer until 2011, a full 14 seasons after they left the Goldstone.
     
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  13. skyblue1991

    skyblue1991 Well-Known Member

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    I never said you can guarantee anything, I am simply asking you a question.

    Yet again avoiding what has been asked

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
     
  14. Sky Blue Kid

    Sky Blue Kid Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that what I said too? I didn't avoid any question mate... Just for you Ahemmmm, I couldn't guarantee anything.... Not too fast for you is it?
     
  15. dongonzalos

    dongonzalos Well-Known Member

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    Why didn't they move the first season and why did they end up paying £480k a year rent instead of £200k a year that they wanted to?
    Because the FL said they couldn't move because they could give the FL enough assurances about their plan to return
    So their choice was to go under it get ripped off by the property company.
    The FL were prepared for them to go under.
    If they were not Brighton would not have paid over double what they wanted to in rent.
     
  16. dongonzalos

    dongonzalos Well-Known Member

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    I am saying that's not relevant.
    What guarantees can we provide that we will return to the 'Coventry area in an acceptable time frame'
    Last time we staked a million pound on it.
    I wonder if that million was potentially at risk if Wasps came in and said you are not welcome back here.
    Remember we put a million down as we were going to build our own new stadium.
    Why wouldn't the FL ask for a million again?
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  17. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    I think you're making a valid point that many are missing. The door was always open at the Ricoh before Wasps owned it so the £1M wasn't a gamble, it was safe. If we leave of our own accord again there's zero guarantee that any door will be left open at the Ricoh, there is no guarantee of that default position to safeguard the £1M. SISU won't risk it again without a concrete plan B and it's clear there isn't one. They've thrown some shit to see if any of it sticks and it don't. It's the Ricoh or nothing and I doubt that they're fooling anyone on that.
     
  18. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    Would they gamble the £1m against potential compensation in the legal action? Is there anyway they could use having to forfeit a bond to strengthen their legal position?
     
  19. rupert_bear

    rupert_bear Well-Known Member

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    Another thing to take into consideration that seems to be missed, there are rules and there are other members in the FL who can complain if rules are not adhered to, there will be two current members getting relegated out of the football league into the conference. If I was chairman of one of those two I would be making a lot of noise to stay in the league. I hope I'm wrong but the more I look into it the more we seem to be behind the black ball unless this litigation is stopped.
     
  20. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    They'd be better of gambling on a double promotion than any legal case that might never even reach court I would think. Given their track record on winning court case's. Mind you their track record on winning promotion is no better. Probably best that they just don't gamble.
     
  21. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    There is little chance the FL would close the club if this deal expires at the ground without renewal.

    Sisu and their litigation history will at least prevent that.
     
  22. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    All hail SISU and their litigation history.

    The only history we've witnessed personally is failure. Are you sure that the FL would be concerned? Especially given the large number of false dawns that they've fed the FL (and us) over the last few years? I think SISU would have a hard time convincing a judge that the FL won't work with them given how much they have gone out of their way to bend the rules and make allowances for CCFC and it's owners thus far.
     
  23. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    Look at the FL accounts. They don't have millions in reserves that they can use to fund a court case even if they know they will win. They've openly stated in the past thats why the fit and proper persons test isn't stricter, they couldn't afford it if anyone challenged it in court.
     
  24. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    I think the FL would be supportive of the owners as they see them as members.
     
  25. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    So on what basis could SISU take them to court then?
     
  26. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    If that's the case perhaps you can stop telling people that SISU aren't the club and what SISU do doesn't effect the club. You clearly don't believe it.
     
  27. rupert_bear

    rupert_bear Well-Known Member

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    It may be considerably more than a million as dongonzalos said the circumstances have changed the Ricoh had a different owner
    The FL will not close the club, but could refuse its membership into it's competition. Which means us playing in the conference, if there's places.
     
  28. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Er...for closing the club down when there was no suitable options as the club were refused permission to look at an alternate ground in the city and the current ground refuses to talk to them.

    Oh and they didn't close one club down that since thrived and prospered.
     
  29. stupot07

    stupot07 Well-Known Member

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    If wasps refuse to negotiate, then the club wouldn't be leaving of their own accord.

    Tbh I find all this "the FL will kick us out the league, we're going to be liquidated, etc etc " just pure scaremongering.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
     
  30. Frankley

    Frankley Active Member

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    Well, there's more to this story than you suggest and the example of Brighton isn't directly comparable with the Sky Blues.

    One of the key things was what the owners of Brighton did and the reaction this prompted from the FA. The constitution of the club was altered by the key shareholders to allow individuals to benefit from the sale of the Goldstone Ground and the winding up of the club (I seem to remember that the previous terms had allowed for any excess monies to by distributed between various sporting clubs in the area). The FA intervened to block this change.

    The owners said they planned to build a stadium at a site on the South Downs (Waterhall) and they wanted to groundshare at Portsmouth in the meanwhile. In fact, planning permission had already refused for a stadium at this site a couple of weeks before the owners publicly announced their plans to build there.

    It was against this backdrop of the above two events that the Football League said they wouldn't sanction the ground-share unless they received guarantees that the club will be building a new stadium in Brighton or Hove.

    The above explains why the club paid to lease back the Goldstone Ground and the circumstances clearly aren't really directly comparable with those of the Sky Blues.
     
  31. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    How would the FL close the club?
     
  32. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    SISU, or Otium I guess as they are the owners, could take the FL to court if the FL expel us from the league. They would no doubt claim that there was no viable option for them to remain in the city and that the FL's actions have cost them a huge amount of money.
     
  33. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    That's why I said if we leave on our own accord. I was deliberately making the distinction.
     
  34. stupot07

    stupot07 Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, but don is including the wasps refusing to negotiate in his scenario.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
     
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  35. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    Surely SISU would have to prove that there's no viable option acceptable to the FL, flying in the face of what they've been telling/selling the FL for 3+ years. The boy that cried wolf once again spring's to mind. I suspect they've claimed to much on the record already to be taken serious enough for it to be considered. Would it even get to court?
     

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