Do you want to discuss boring politics? (41 Viewers)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

What would “concrete evidence” be in your opinion?

I mean he’s admitted it but blamed the victims for having having a memory of it and taking it too personally. We’re up to 20 victims I think at the last count, one of his former teachers also recalled him saying similar/the same things. The founder of UKIP recalls him using the N word when they argued over letting former NF members join UKIP, Ferage was pro NF members by the way and many more examples. There’s not just examples of Ferage saying racist stuff as a silly teenager showing off to other bullies. There’s clear evidence that there’s a pattern of behaviour that followed him into adulthood and indeed his political life.

Schools keep records so ‘concrete evidence’ means reports/records of punishments and so on.

Even The Guardian hit piece, several others from his Dulwich cohort, including a teacher said he racist or an extreme right winger. Either way, what someone said between 13-18 is scarcely indicative of an adults world view.

As @StrettoBoy points out, Starmer was a Trotskyist in his 20s and no one bats an eyelid because he’s obviously moved on from supporting one of the architects of the gulag archipelago.

Either way, the ‘deeply shocking’ revelations have had no impact on Reform’s polling so the whole exercise looks like a desperate smear.

 

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[skybluetony176]

Schools keep records so ‘concrete evidence’ means reports/records of punishments and so on.

Even The Guardian hit piece, several others from his Dulwich cohort, including a teacher said he racist or an extreme right winger. Either way, what someone said between 13-18 is scarcely indicative of an adults world view.

As @StrettoBoy points out, Starmer was a Trotskyist in his 20s and no one bats an eyelid because he’s obviously moved on from supporting one of the architects of the gulag archipelago.

Either way, the ‘deeply shocking’ revelations have had no impact on Reform’s polling so the whole exercise looks like a desperate smear.

I tell you what. When it comes out that Starmer was bullying the children of the survivors of the Gulag saying Lenin got it right then you’ll have a point. Until then you’re just waffling bollocks shaped whataboutry.

Secondly you’re saying Shemima Bengham must be forgiven.

Thirdly you’re ignoring the pattern of behaviour that followed him well into adulthood and into at least the early part of his political life.

Fourthly he’s admitted it so it can’t be a smear by any definition of the word.

Fithly. The way the press has been slow in reporting this to the extent that they did when antisemitism was attached to the Labour Party under Corbyn although they’re now starting to catch up.

and finally rumours are abound that there’s more to come out.

 

[duffer]

Schools keep records so ‘concrete evidence’ means reports/records of punishments and so on.

Even The Guardian hit piece, several others from his Dulwich cohort, including a teacher said he racist or an extreme right winger. Either way, what someone said between 13-18 is scarcely indicative of an adults world view.

As @StrettoBoy points out, Starmer was a Trotskyist in his 20s and no one bats an eyelid because he’s obviously moved on from supporting one of the architects of the gulag archipelago.

Either way, the ‘deeply shocking’ revelations have had no impact on Reform’s polling so the whole exercise looks like a desperate smear.

The fact that it's had little impact speaks more to the kind of shit that Reform voters will swallow to get Nige into power, than anything else.

Farage hasn't moved on, he's simply denying it, despite a decent amount of evidence from those directly involved.

And it's not exactly a smear if it's true, is it?

Indeed, can you link to where Starmer supported Gulags, which were actually under Stalin rather than Trotsky, because that is a smear, and a lazily inaccurate one too.

Google can help explain the difference between Marxism, socialism and communism if you're struggling with the concepts.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The fact that it's had little impact speaks more to the kind of shit that Reform voters will swallow to get Nige into power, than anything else.

Farage hasn't moved on, he's simply denying it, despite a decent amount of evidence from those directly involved.

And it's not exactly a smear if it's true, is it?

Indeed, can you link to where Starmer supported Gulags, which were actually under Stalin rather than Trotsky, because that is a smear, and a lazily inaccurate one too.

Google can help explain the difference between Marxism, socialism and communism if you're struggling with the concepts.

The Gulag Archipelago refers to a book. If you’re familiar with your Soviet history, then you’ll be well acquainted with Trotsky’s ‘War Socialism’ policies and his role in setting up the Cheka, the predecessor to the NKVD and KBG as well as the crushing of the Kronstadt sailors.

One of history’s great ‘what if’ questions is whether it had been Trotsky, rather than Stalin who succeeded Lenin… my view on that, in the grand scheme of things, not much would’ve been different but, this isn’t an Alt History thread.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There’s a level of righteous indignation there imo. If you’re accused of something and you deny and it keeps getting brought up without any concrete evidence, I’d also be agitated.

Perhaps some of you are a bit more laid back. Then again, I’m quite a defensive person.

Such behaviour happens on this forum all the time.

 

[PVA]

He's spent the last however many - 20, 30 - years being able to get away with anything.

So he was able to say whatever he wants, and do whatever he wants and get away with it. Casual racism, links to Russia, etc etc. Good old Nige, one of the boys, says it like it is!

Now, although he was always very prominent previously, he's in with a shot of being PM and it's different. He will get a whole new level of scrutiny and accountability. And my goodness he will not like it. He's too thin skinned.

We're still 3 years out from an election and look how tetchy he's getting. He'll either have enough and jack it in, or the public will get so fed up of him he'll lose a ton of support.

 

[wingy]

He's spent the last however many - 20, 30 - years being able to get away with anything.

So he was able to say whatever he wants, and do whatever he wants and get away with it. Casual racism, links to Russia, etc etc. Good old Nige, one of the boys, says it like it is!

Now, although he was always very prominent previously, he's in with a shot of being PM and it's different. He will get a whole new level of scrutiny and accountability. And my goodness he will not like it. He's too thin skinned.

We're still 3 years out from an election and look how tetchy he's getting. He'll either have enough and jack it in, or the public will get so fed up of him he'll lose a ton of support.

He's a defender of Human rights of course, whichever side the equation.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

There’s a level of righteous indignation there imo. If you’re accused of something and you deny and it keeps getting brought up without any concrete evidence, I’d also be agitated.

Perhaps some of you are a bit more laid back. Then again, I’m quite a defensive person.

Fair

 

[Captain Dart]

Schools keep records so ‘concrete evidence’ means reports/records of punishments and so on.

Even The Guardian hit piece, several others from his Dulwich cohort, including a teacher said he racist or an extreme right winger. Either way, what someone said between 13-18 is scarcely indicative of an adults world view.

As @StrettoBoy points out, Starmer was a Trotskyist in his 20s and no one bats an eyelid because he’s obviously moved on from supporting one of the architects of the gulag archipelago.

Either way, the ‘deeply shocking’ revelations have had no impact on Reform’s polling so the whole exercise looks like a desperate smear.

I wonder what Zara Sultana's school record was like?

 

[Grendel]

I wonder what Zara Sultana's school record was like?

Well as a student she wanted Tony Blair assassinated

 

[Grendel]

Labour Coventry South candidate Zarah Sultana apologises for 'celebrate deaths' post - BBC News

Zarah Sultana said she was "exasperated by global suffering and needless killing" after 2015 posts emerge.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Captain Dart]

Well as a student she wanted Tony Blair assassinated

So not all bad then.

 

[PVA]

Well as a student she wanted Tony Blair assassinated

That's not what she said in the article you posted.

Is there another story where she wants Blair assassinated?

 

[Grendel]

That's not what she said in the article you posted.

Is there another story where she wants Blair assassinated?

She would celebrate his death. It’s far more accurate than your claims that Farage did made racist comments at school

you really see a gift that will forever give

 

[PVA]

She would celebrate his death.

So she didn't say she wants him assassinated then.

Glad we agree!

 

[Grendel]

So she didn't say she wants him assassinated then.

Glad we agree!

Do we agree there is there is zero evidence Mr Farage made racists comments at school?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

So she didn't say she wants him assassinated then.

Glad we agree!

Not like him to bend the truth!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Labour Coventry South candidate Zarah Sultana apologises for 'celebrate deaths' post - BBC News

Zarah Sultana said she was "exasperated by global suffering and needless killing" after 2015 posts emerge.

www.bbc.co.uk

She’s probably one the nastiest UK Parliamentarians and thankfully, she’s going to be booted out at the next election.

Goodbye Zarah, no one will miss you.

 

[PVA]

Do we agree there is there is zero evidence Mr Farage made racists comments at school?

Deflector shields: maximum

And no we don't agree, because there is evidence. A witness statement or oral testimony is evidence. It can be disputed, of course. But it is still defined as evidence.

 

[duffer]

The Gulag Archipelago refers to a book. If you’re familiar with your Soviet history, then you’ll be well acquainted with Trotsky’s ‘War Socialism’ policies and his role in setting up the Cheka, the predecessor to the NKVD and KBG as well as the crushing of the Kronstadt sailors.

One of history’s great ‘what if’ questions is whether it had been Trotsky, rather than Stalin who succeeded Lenin… my view on that, in the grand scheme of things, not much would’ve been different but, this isn’t an Alt History thread.

I'm not familiar with it, but thanks for the update.

However, despite your opinion, it still wasn't Trotsky who used the Gulags, was it? And neither did Starmer advocate for them, did he?

Like I say, for someone who is a bit keen on calling out "smears" based on first hand evidence against Farage, you're not above smearing Starmer by linking him to something that he never actually said, are you?

 

[duffer]

I wonder what Zara Sultana's school record was like?

I dunno, has she been accused of whispering 'Hitler was right' in a Jewish boy's ear, or anything along those lines? I must've missed it, perhaps you could link to some evidence?

 

[Captain Dart]

I dunno, has she been accused of whispering 'Hitler was right' in a Jewish boy's ear, or anything along those lines? I must've missed it, perhaps you could link to some evidence?

Yawn, she said "Mao did more good than bad" didn't she... hold on, no no that was Diane Abbott.

 

[Grendel]

I dunno, has she been accused of whispering 'Hitler was right' in a Jewish boy's ear, or anything along those lines? I must've missed it, perhaps you could link to some evidence?

No she was accused of anti senitism when at university. Still I’m sure there are degrees of racism when it suits. I also do state accused - so there is no evidence - same as Farage

 

[wingy]

What that we gave something like £500M to for?
Possible supporting terrorism in Drcongo who I think have gone onto win some territory that contain?Rare minerals that have likely been snaffled by US companies, that one?

Well what about that, Trump's just took credit for signing a peace deal between Rwanda and DRCongo, I guess that was easy as the CIA would have been running the terrorist group M23 I think it was.
Terrorist state USA, can't beat em join em!

 

[skybluetony176]

Things that are antisemitic. Pointing out Israel’s war crimes in Gaza.

Things that aren’t antisemitic. Telling Jews Hitler got it right. Singing gas the Jews etc etc.

The cartwheels some do on here too excuse Herr Ferage.

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I'm not familiar with it, but thanks for the update.

However, despite your opinion, it still wasn't Trotsky who used the Gulags, was it? And neither did Starmer advocate for them, did he?

Like I say, for someone who is a bit keen on calling out "smears" based on first hand evidence against Farage, you're not above smearing Starmer by linking him to something that he never actually said, are you?

The gulag archipelago is a metaphor for the USSR and its system. It’s not literal.

It is not saying Starmer supported the gulags directly, it’s not a smear at all because in his Trotskyist days, he would’ve supported the USSR at that point in time.

Which exposes another double standard.