Do you want to discuss boring politics? (12 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

The true measure of our character is how we treat the poor, the disfavored, the accused, the incarcerated, and the condemned.

 

---

[Sky Blue Pete]

The true measure of our character is how we treat the poor, the disfavored, the accused, the incarcerated, and the condemned.

That’s what government could be but I think Grendel and someone else is right it can’t so I should probably grow up and accept any change I want to see starts with me

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

That’s what government could be but I think Grendel and someone else is right it can’t so I should probably grow up and accept any change I want to see starts with me

The full talk

https://sdsuwriting.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/140494602/Stevenson%20TED%20Need%20Talk%20About%20an%20Injustice.pdf

 

[tisza]

The true measure of our character is how we treat the poor, the disfavored, the accused, the incarcerated, and the condemned.

No the true measure of our character is how we treat everyone.

 

[shmmeee]

Fair crack
Conservatives 14 years
Labour 10 months
Lol

BALANCE

 

[shmmeee]

No the true measure of our character is how we treat everyone.

That’s the same thing.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No the true measure of our character is how we treat everyone.

Measure of truth in that

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Exactly. Middle class socialists / social democrats can be some of the most envious people I’ve come across. I had the pleasure of sharing a politics seminar with a Labour Counsellor at uni. That person didn’t care about addressing the ills of the working class but was driven by envy of rich.

Or it is annoyance at the damage the greed of the wealthy does. Already have loads, causing problems for billions of people worldwide not to mention every other living being, yet still want more.

It really isn't envy. That's suggests we want to be like them. We REALLY don't.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Or it is annoyance at the damage the greed of the wealthy does. Already have loads, causing problems for billions of people worldwide not to mention every other living being, yet still want more.

It really isn't envy. That's suggests we want to be like them. We REALLY don't.

The tone of this post alone tells me you’re driven by hatred/envy of the rich than concern for the poor.

Free market capitalism has lead to the largest expansion of living standards. Like you, I agree capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others.

 

[PVA]

Fair crack
Conservatives 14 years
Labour 10 months
Lol

Yeah, whether you like them or not and whether you think they're doing a good job or not is subjective.

But to say they've had a fair crack of the whip is nuts.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Yeah, whether you like them or not and whether you think they're doing a good job or not is subjective.

But to say they've had a fair crack of the whip is nuts.

Unfortunately tor you, the electorate disagrees pretty strongly.

 

[PVA]

Unfortunately tor you, the electorate disagrees pretty strongly.

Doesn't make it correct though. They clearly haven't had a fair crack of the whip yet - as Pete points out it's 10 months vs 14 years.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Doesn't make it correct though. They clearly haven't had a fair crack of the whip yet - as Pete points out it's 10 months vs 14 years.

By definition, the electorate is correct.

The public are generally fed with the traditional parties. Labour landslide was a loveless marriage (their vote share was lower than under Corbyn) and the early blunders in government has soured public opinion against them further. What didn’t help is that on the campaign trail, Labour didn’t articulate that ‘unpopular decisions’ had to be made and the public can smell BS when Labour said they didn’t know the public finances were in such a bad state (the info was publically available).

Labour isn’t cut out to navigate the country through its biggest challenges. Too committed to legalism to address concerns over immigration and too committed to the ‘OBR’ economic status quo hence Reeves has made some terrible policy choices as Chancellor.

Without tooting my own horn, I’ll leave a comment I left in June 2024:

Agreed. Labour will win this election purely because the public have had enough of the Tories. In my view, a lot of people are going to be disappointed.

Rachel Reeves is an ex-banker, she will not deviate from the orthodoxy at the OBR. The same orthodoxy that’s led to low growth, soaring asset prices and wage stagnation.

There will be tax increases this parliament and without a plan to cut public expenditure it’ll be a perpetual cycle.

If Labour squander this parliament, they could face a real challenge from the left (Greens) at the next election just as Reform is challenging the tories. We’re fed up with politicians delivering the same policies and continually failing.

Whatever people’s views on Brexit, the 2016 referendum was supposed to reset our political system. That is yet to happen.

 

[shmmeee]

By definition, the electorate is correct.

The public are generally fed with the traditional parties. Labour landslide was a loveless marriage (their vote share was lower than under Corbyn) and the early blunders in government has soured public opinion against them further. What didn’t help is that on the campaign trail, Labour didn’t articulate that ‘unpopular decisions’ had to be made and the public can smell BS when Labour said they didn’t know the public finances were in such a bad state (the info was publically available).

Labour isn’t cut out to navigate the country through its biggest challenges. Too committed to legalism to address concerns over immigration and too committed to the ‘OBR’ economic status quo hence Reeves has made some terrible policy choices as Chancellor.

Without tooting my own horn, I’ll leave a comment I left in June 2024:

The electorate elected Labour with a massive landslide. The rest of your post is just you claiming to be right.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The tone of this post alone tells me you’re driven by hatred/envy of the rich than concern for the poor.

Free market capitalism has lead to the largest expansion of living standards. Like you, I agree capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others.

Average life expectancy in the USA in 1950 was 68, by 1990 it was 74

In Russia in 1950 it was 50.2 and was 69 in 1990

It Russia it declined after 1990 and only recovered to 1990 levels 25 years later

 

[PVA]

These local councillors that have been elected for Reform up and down the country haven't got a clue what they are doing.

They are not serious people with serious policies.

‘Special’ council meeting called for flag debate

It will be the first meeting of the new cabinet

www.leicestermercury.co.uk

Reform UK struggles to find friends to share council power

Newbie councillors are navigating how to deal with other parties on councils in no overall control.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Nick]

These local councillors that have been elected for Reform up and down the country haven't got a clue what they are doing.

They are not serious people with serious policies.

‘Special’ council meeting called for flag debate

It will be the first meeting of the new cabinet

www.leicestermercury.co.uk

Reform UK struggles to find friends to share council power

Newbie councillors are navigating how to deal with other parties on councils in no overall control.

www.bbc.co.uk

Could say the same about any of the parties.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The electorate elected Labour with a massive landslide. The rest of your post is just you claiming to be right.

Not this again. 35% of the popular vote is lowest vote share for winning party in living memory. Reform’s vote share cost the Tories around 90-100 seats, allowing Labour to sneak through with a small majority. Examples of this include the High profile Tories who lost their seats such as Rees-Mogg, Penny Mordaunt and Liz Truss.

 

[Grendel]

Could say the same about any of the parties.

At least they aren’t splurging millions on an out of time rugby club that was a financial car crash wherever it went.

Anne Lucas saying who wouldn’t want big beefy rugby players in town.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Could say the same about any of the parties.

You can’t Nick come on thats gove level of we don’t need expert shit

 

[Grendel]

You can’t Nick come on thats gove level of we don’t need expert shit

Yes the Labour Party in Birmingham council had really demonstrated expertise

 

[Captain Dart]

These local councillors that have been elected for Reform up and down the country haven't got a clue what they are doing.

They are not serious people with serious policies.

‘Special’ council meeting called for flag debate

It will be the first meeting of the new cabinet

www.leicestermercury.co.uk

Reform UK struggles to find friends to share council power

Newbie councillors are navigating how to deal with other parties on councils in no overall control.

www.bbc.co.uk

I am sure the same was said about Labour and the Greens when they first achieved electoral sucesses. So what nearly all politicians are bad for us, a despicable, interfering class.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I am sure the same was said about Labour and the Greens when they first achieved electoral sucesses. So what nearly all politicians are bad for us, a despicable, interfering class.

The calibre of counsellors of all parties is generally low. A Labour MP candidate (and Coventry counsellor at the time) came into my politics A-level class and was she was genuinely unimpressive. They were my thoughts at the time despite being a Labour voter then.

The electorate want to punish Labour and the Tories.

 

[Grendel]

I am sure the same was said about Labour and the Greens when they first achieved electoral sucesses. So what nearly all politicians are bad for us, a despicable, interfering class.

I think the residents of the one Green led council would wish the only concern was a debate on flags

Monthly bin collections and road closures: furious Bristol residents turn on Greens over council cuts

Guerrilla protest against low-traffic neighbourhood is latest backlash against newly-elected council

www.theguardian.com

 

[SBT]

Councillors are naturally one of the lowest calibre of politician out there, and obviously the list of failures is long, but the mentality of ‘they’re all as bad as each other’ is such a lazy and cynical view of the world. Seeking untested alternatives for the sake of it is no guarantee of success.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The tone of this post alone tells me you’re driven by hatred/envy of the rich than concern for the poor.

Free market capitalism has lead to the largest expansion of living standards. Like you, I agree capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others.

Except we don’t live in a pure free market capitalist society, we live in a social democracy. The question is not whether or not to have socialism in our society, it’s about how much.

Unless you think that we should allow the free market to also take care of emergency services, the military, healthcare, education etc, but I don’t think you do. The happiest countries on the planet seem to manage with a mix also.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The electorate want to punish Labour and the Tories.

Now this I do agree with and count myself in that category also. I just fail to see a viable alternative.

 

[Nick]

You can’t Nick come on thats gove level of we don’t need expert shit

You really can. It's really easy to notice and point out when you aren't emotionally attached to any party.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Now this I do agree with and count myself in that category also. I just fail to see a viable alternative.

If Labour lurches to the right to fend off Reform, it risks exposing its left flank to the Lib Dems and/or Greens. As of this moment, it is a remote possibility, but so too was Reform supplanting the Tories was the dominant right wing party.

I have quite a few mates who have flipped to the Greens already. Iirc, you’ve done the same or at least considering it?

A ‘Blue Labour’ policy prospectus would probably do v well electorally. Economic left wing populism and socially conservative (particularly on immigration) would go down quite well. Even 52% of Green voters support deportation of violent criminals and that raises to 65% where sexual crimes are involved and this is by far the most liberal party on this issue.

 

[Grendel]

Councillors are naturally one of the lowest calibre of politician out there, and obviously the list of failures is long, but the mentality of ‘they’re all as bad as each other’ is such a lazy and cynical view of the world. Seeking untested alternatives for the sake of it is no guarantee of success.

Remaining with the status quo isn’t either.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You really can. It's really easy to notice and point out when you aren't emotionally attached to any party.

No point then fuck everything

 

[Nick]

No point then fuck everything

What's that got to do with what I said?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If Labour lurches to the right to fend off Reform, it risks exposing its left flank to the Lib Dems and/or Greens. As of this moment, it is a remote possibility, but so too was Reform supplanting the Tories was the dominant right wing party.

I have quite a few mates who have flipped to the Greens already. Iirc, you’ve done the same or at least considering it?

A ‘Blue Labour’ policy prospectus would probably do v well electorally. Economic left wing populism and socially conservative (particularly on immigration) would go down quite well. Even 52% of Green voters support deportation of violent criminals and that raises to 65% where sexual crimes are involved and this is by far the most liberal party on this issue.

I flipped to the Greens locally, but nationally I don’t trust them. Old Labour is what you describe in the second half of your post.

 

[shmmeee]

Not this again. 35% of the popular vote is lowest vote share for winning party in living memory. Reform’s vote share cost the Tories around 90-100 seats, allowing Labour to sneak through with a small majority. Examples of this include the High profile Tories who lost their seats such as Rees-Mogg, Penny Mordaunt and Liz Truss.

OK and when “vote share” is a thing in general elections I’ll care. Meanwhile Labour won a massive landslide.

If you want the arguments just look back to 2017 and 19 and look for replies to Fernandos posts.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

OK and when “vote share” is a thing in general elections I’ll care. Meanwhile Labour won a massive landslide.

If you want the arguments just look back to 2017 and 19 and look for replies to Fernandos posts.

They won a landslide because of our niche electoral system. I didn’t vote for Labour but it was good they got a majority because they should have pressed ahead with their agenda of NHS reform, ‘smashing the gangs’ and so on. I like that electoral system gives the winners large majorities.

However, it would be misguided to conclude that Labour was voted in enthusiastically. If this wasn’t obvious back then, their polling has tanked pretty aggressively since the election which hasn’t even been a year yet. That first 12 months is typically a ‘honeymoon period’ for most governments, it doesn’t tend to get much better.