Do you want to discuss boring politics? (39 Viewers)

[Nuskyblue]

I've just found out that my partner and I are entitled to £70 per month child benefit that I had no idea that we were entitled too! I'm surprised that we are entitled tbh.

 

---

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Watched a documentary on this recently. Part of the plan involves moving immigrants from 'ghettos', poor area's with a large percentage of immigrants, to more wealthy area's with low levels of immigrants. This is all funded by the goverenment.

I can imagine there would be absolute uproar if Starmer said the government were going to fund similar here.

Suspect people will only want to copy parts of the plan that involve encouraging immigrants to leave and restricting numbers coming in.

It’s interesting, the scale of our migrations means that this element of the plan is unpractical. How would even go about doing this for 900k new arrivals in 2023 or 476k last year… you can’t.

There are undoubtedly areas in major cities that have changed beyond recognition hence there is so much anger up and down the country.

The battle with immigration is giving the public faith that our borders are controlled, arrivals are economically productive, fulfil the conditions of their visas and any criminals are deported. This isn’t ’left v right’ stuff.

 

[Nick]

Ultimately if brits don’t want to have kids then the options are quick decline or immigration.

A lot of it is the financial side of having kids, childcare etc.

Is the answer to draft people in from elsewhere who have no issue firing out loads of kids for the tax payer to pay for?

 

[chiefdave]

The battle with immigration is giving the public faith that our borders are controlled, arrivals are economically productive, fulfil the conditions of their visas and any criminals are deported. This isn’t ’left v right’ stuff.

Not sure there's an easy answer there. Even if we magically found a 'perfect' system so much politically messaging these days is basically vibes there's every chance a Farage like character would spin it as a disaster for their own self interest

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Ultimately if brits don’t want to have kids then the options are quick decline or immigration.

I’d be very careful about taking anything Cummings says as gospel, like Musk he talks a good game but when given the chance cried off. The boats are a distraction, tens of thousands at most. The problems people have with immigration aren’t caused by asylum seekers, they’re just emblematic. They’re caused by the rapid demographic change they see around them caused by mass non European migration. And as non Europeans are the only fuckers fucking these days the proportion of them anywhere in the world will increase. At least until Africa and Asia become as rich as Europe and stop fucking like Europe.

The electorate has consistently voted for lower migration, does their voice not matter?

Even so, the first port of call is addressing the root causes of declining fertility. How can governments make policies that support families should be top of the agenda rather than importing people.

The way you talk on this topic, it’s as if there is no cultural costs involved here. The economic costs are mounting, and crime statistics paint a bleak picture too. There’s been episodes of far away regional conflicts erupting into violence in our streets and even sectarian politicians elected to our parliament.

On the Dominic Cummings point, I actually think he’s on the money. The civil service has at times been openly resistant to government policies and on the issue of immigration specifically, the Home Office is either criminally negligent or hiding details (e.g. migrant hotels have been revised upwards 3 times the original projections) from the public. Side note on Musk, achieved some decent cost savings but his agenda was always somewhat at odds with the wider MAGA movement and his relationship with Trump showed early signs of tension.

On another tangent, those same tensions exist with Reform’s constituency. On immigration, Farage and Reform is strong but economically ill, a lot of Reform would-be voters (and 2019 Conservative voters) generally want ‘big state’ spending which goes against Reform’s Thatcherite roots. Who knows, Reform may be about to implode after today’s news.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Not sure there's an easy answer there. Even if we magically found a 'perfect' system so much politically messaging these days is basically vibes there's every chance a Farage like character would spin it as a disaster for their own self interest

If Labour got net migration to sub 100k p/a, tightened entry requirements, ‘stopped the boats’, deported arrivals such as; foreign criminals, people no longer meeting their visa conditions and denied asylum seekers…

… Farage and Reform would be out of business. Given Starmer’s background, he was never going to take the steps necessary to address this. No one believes Starmer when he says he’s angry about the small boat crossings.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If Labour got net migration to sub 100k p/a, tightened entry requirements, ‘stopped the boats’, deported arrivals such as; foreign criminals, people no longer meeting their visa conditions and denied asylum seekers…

… Farage and Reform would be out of business. Given Starmer’s background, he was never going to take the steps necessary to address this. No one believes Starmer when he says he’s angry about the small boat crossings.

Even if they did all that there would still be problems in society and people will want someone to blame. And for too many of them the easy answer will still be foreigners.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Even if they did all that there would still be problems in society and people will want someone to blame. And for too many of them the easy answer will still be foreigners.

… so do nothing?

One thing that fascinates me about the liberal-left is that on immigration, there almost no limit on numbers coming into the country.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

… so do nothing?

One thing that fascinates me about the liberal-left is that on immigration, there almost no limit on numbers coming into the country.

Of course we shouldn't do nothing.

Even though I'm quite left wing and libertarian some of the things I'd try to do would be considered quite draconian, especially regarding those that break the law. Though first things first, employ more people so processing happens quicker. The big thing is how do we encourage more Brits to take on the huge number of care jobs that are required to be filled by migrants?

Anyway, the point I was arguing was you saying if migration was more controlled the likes of Reform and Farage would be out of business. I really doubt that.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Of course we shouldn't do nothing.

Even though I'm quite left wing and libertarian some of the things I'd try to do would be considered quite draconian, especially regarding those that break the law. Though first things first, employ more people so processing happens quicker. The big thing is how do we encourage more Brits to take on the huge number of care jobs that are required to be filled by migrants?

Anyway, the point I was arguing was you saying if migration was more controlled the likes of Reform and Farage would be out of business. I really doubt that.

Farage was put out of business in 2017 and 2019 when a) Brexit was settled and b) Boris Johnson promised an Australian points system.

There’s an argument that Reform (Brexit Party) loaned that support, particularly in the north and midlands. Ultimately, the massive failures in immigration eroded trust in the Tories amongst people who deserted them for Reform. Amongst other things, the country were just disgusted with them.

I don’t know about you, this Labour government has a lot of similarities with the 2019 Tory government. Anyone I know who’s remotely left wing is disgusted at this government… there’s a real threat that if the Green party went all in on a left wing populist platform, they could seriously hurt Labour.

The above paragraph is caveated by the fact we’ve got 3.5 years until the next election. If anyone told you Reform would be polling at 30% by 2025 in 2020, you’d have been referred to a psychiatric ward.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The electorate has consistently voted for lower migration, does their voice not matter?

Even so, the first port of call is addressing the root causes of declining fertility. How can governments make policies that support families should be top of the agenda rather than importing people.

The way you talk on this topic, it’s as if there is no cultural costs involved here. The economic costs are mounting, and crime statistics paint a bleak picture too. There’s been episodes of far away regional conflicts erupting into violence in our streets and even sectarian politicians elected to our parliament.

On the Dominic Cummings point, I actually think he’s on the money. The civil service has at times been openly resistant to government policies and on the issue of immigration specifically, the Home Office is either criminally negligent or hiding details (e.g. migrant hotels have been revised upwards 3 times the original projections) from the public. Side note on Musk, achieved some decent cost savings but his agenda was always somewhat at odds with the wider MAGA movement and his relationship with Trump showed early signs of tension.

On another tangent, those same tensions exist with Reform’s constituency. On immigration, Farage and Reform is strong but economically ill, a lot of Reform would-be voters (and 2019 Conservative voters) generally want ‘big state’ spending which goes against Reform’s Thatcherite roots. Who knows, Reform may be about to implode after today’s news.

Apart from brexit

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Farage was put out of business in 2017 and 2019 when a) Brexit was settled and b) Boris Johnson promised an Australian points system.

There’s an argument that Reform (Brexit Party) loaned that support, particularly in the north and midlands. Ultimately, the massive failures in immigration eroded trust in the Tories amongst people who deserted them for Reform. Amongst other things, the country were just disgusted with them.

I don’t know about you, this Labour government has a lot of similarities with the 2019 Tory government. Anyone I know who’s remotely left wing is disgusted at this government… there’s a real threat that if the Green party went all in on a left wing populist platform, they could seriously hurt Labour.

The above paragraph is caveated by the fact we’ve got 3.5 years until the next election. If anyone told you Reform would be polling at 30% by 2025 in 2020, you’d have been referred to a psychiatric ward.

Does it not strike you as odd that reform are saying starmer is Marxist and the most left wing prime minister ever and Corbyn and Zara and other socialists are saying he’s the most right wing labour leader ever

????

 

[shmmeee]

I've just found out that my partner and I are entitled to £70 per month child benefit that I had no idea that we were entitled too! I'm surprised that we are entitled tbh.

Were you not aware you had a child?

 

[shmmeee]

Does it not strike you as odd that reform are saying starmer is Marxist and the most left wing prime minister ever and Corbyn and Zara and other socialists are saying he’s the most right wing labour leader ever

????

Like the BBC being pretty normal and middle of the road these days just ends up with the 30% of loons at each end shouting at you.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Does it not strike you as odd that reform are saying starmer is Marxist and the most left wing prime minister ever and Corbyn and Zara and other socialists are saying he’s the most right wing labour leader ever

????

Pretty much the same phenomenon for Rishi Sunak. He was simultaneously right wing and a ‘socialist’. It hasn’t happened yet, but my gut feeling is that Starmer will swing to the left rapidly if the Greens grow more support - their 9% is significant.

In my view, the country needs a new ‘market for ideas’ because the main parties have stuck to policies that aren’t too dissimilar.

Only the treasury could look at the balance books and conclude cutting the winter fuel allowance was a good idea. As low as my opinion is of Rachel Reeves, I don’t believe a Labour politician would think it’s a good idea to scrap this for pensioners.

 

[shmmeee]

Pretty much the same phenomenon for Rishi Sunak. He was simultaneously right wing and a ‘socialist’. It hasn’t happened yet, but my gut feeling is that Starmer will swing to the left rapidly if the Greens grow more support - their 9% is significant.

In my view, the country needs a new ‘market for ideas’ because the main parties have stuck to policies that aren’t too dissimilar.

Only the treasury could look at the balance books and conclude cutting the winter fuel allowance was a good idea. As low as my opinion is of Rachel Reeves, I don’t believe a Labour politician would think it’s a good idea to scrap this for pensioners.

You’re believing your own propaganda

Comparing Sunak and unreconstructed Thatcherite with Starmer who is as soft left as you get

Pensioner poverty was a Labour priority like child poverty. If they’re not in poverty they aren’t a Labour priority. The only reason to court pensioners is electoral not ideological.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You’re believing your own propaganda

Comparing Sunak and unreconstructed Thatcherite with Starmer who is as soft left as you get

Pensioner poverty was a Labour priority like child poverty. If they’re not in poverty they aren’t a Labour priority. The only reason to court pensioners is electoral not ideological.

Where was the policy to scrap the winter fuel allowance in the manifesto?

You’re muddling their personal views with how they have governed. This dyed in the wool Thatcherite took Britain’s tax burden to the highest point since WW2. Likewise, Starmer has initiated welfare ‘cuts’ and unleashed his inner Enoch Powell calling Britain ‘an island of strangers’…

Tory voters abandoned them for Reform because they weren’t governing as ‘conservatives’. Likewise, at 9% for the Greens, it could be v dangerous for Labour if that support grows further.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Pretty much the same phenomenon for Rishi Sunak. He was simultaneously right wing and a ‘socialist’. It hasn’t happened yet, but my gut feeling is that Starmer will swing to the left rapidly if the Greens grow more support - their 9% is significant.

In my view, the country needs a new ‘market for ideas’ because the main parties have stuck to policies that aren’t too dissimilar.

Only the treasury could look at the balance books and conclude cutting the winter fuel allowance was a good idea. As low as my opinion is of Rachel Reeves, I don’t believe a Labour politician would think it’s a good idea to scrap this for pensioners.

As a life long socialist who has become more centre left and pragmatic as life’s challenges present themselves in reality and perception the decision to stop wfa for everyone with income of £11k or more or something like that was a massive backward step as was the inheritance tax on farmers at the level it was put at.

I’d have been happy with both of it only affected those on higher rate tax or something or at a level for farms that screwed Clarkson and Lowe and others like them who are using it for legitimate tax avoidance.

We need that market for ideas to come from sensible successful professional people who understand how to make things work.
I’ve friends who have given their working lives to govern locally and some nationally and they’re genuinely doing their best in an almost impossible job

This labour government and starmer haven’t been given a fair crack of the whip. It started before the end of the election and affected the size of their vision to tinkering rather than boldly doing things that a centre left party believes in

 

[chiefdave]

Farage was put out of business in 2017 and 2019

Except he wasn't. He never went away. Literally the morning after the Brexit result he was on TV moaning about it and setting up his next 'the wrong brexit' grift.

The fact is you could put a dome over the UK and not let a single person in and, as it wouldn't solve all the countries problems, you'd have the likes of Farage finding their next target. Suspect we'd first be on get all the foreigners out before they move on to first and second generation immigrants.

Only way you shut the likes of Farage up is to 'fix' the country. If people see their standard of living increasing, are able to access healthcare, see their elderly loved ones properly cared for the issue goes away.

Its not a coincidence that the popularity of people like Farage increases in times of economic hardship.

 

[Grendel]

The Scottish parliament result was interesting.

Labour won and the winner spent most time in his speech saying it shows Scotland don’t want reform.

Until this election reform have made zero effort in Scotland

Labour vote declined by 2%, SNP 15% and the conservatives 11%

Reform grew by 26%

 

[chiefdave]

It hasn’t happened yet, but my gut feeling is that Starmer will swing to the left rapidly if the Greens grow more support - their 9% is significant.

Could be interesting if Polanski wins their leadership contest. In the past you'd have said having a non-MP leader could be an issue but it never hurt Farage.

There's a large chunk of people on the left who feel politically homeless, if someone could galvanise them the way Farage can the right it might get interesting. But history indicates that's unlikely. The left seems to struggle to unite behind one figure. Just look at all the backstabbing Corbyn had to endure!

 

[Grendel]

Could be interesting if Polanski wins their leadership contest. In the past you'd have said having a non-MP leader could be an issue but it never hurt Farage.

There's a large chunk of people on the left who feel politically homeless, if someone could galvanise them the way Farage can the right it might get interesting. But history indicates that's unlikely. The left seems to struggle to unite behind one figure. Just look at all the backstabbing Corbyn had to endure!

Polanski is a moron

He said in one programme he didn’t accept the court judgement on trans women and would plough more money into the NHS for gender reassignment

He went down a complete rabbit hole on the Sunday politics show over a poem he endorsed and still insists we leave NATO and disarm

 

[mmttww]

Only way you shut the likes of Farage up is to 'fix' the country. If people see their standard of living increasing, are able to access healthcare, see their elderly loved ones properly cared for the issue goes away.

 

[tisza]

The Scottish parliament result was interesting.

Labour won and the winner spent most time in his speech saying it shows Scotland don’t want reform.

Until this election reform have made zero effort in Scotland

Labour vote declined by 2%, SNP 15% and the conservatives 11%

Reform grew by 26%

Seems to be a popular theme that if you can roughly hold your % of a vote it's an overwhelming mandate for you - even though it's well under 50%.
Maybe he should concentrate on why over 2 in 3 voters in his constituency didn't want him.
26% should worry the traditional parties if it only took 32% to give the current govt it's mandate.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The Scottish parliament result was interesting.

Labour won and the winner spent most time in his speech saying it shows Scotland don’t want reform.

Until this election reform have made zero effort in Scotland

Labour vote declined by 2%, SNP 15% and the conservatives 11%

Reform grew by 26%

It’s a shock win for Labour, for sure. The Labour candidate had a Q&A that went viral for refusing to endorse the government policy on WFA.

Reform got that result with a small volunteer group of 94 people and as you rightly point out, haven’t put much effort into Scotland because it seemed out of bounds for them.

A lot of people are expecting Reform to do really well in the Senedd elections next year.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Except he wasn't. He never went away. Literally the morning after the Brexit result he was on TV moaning about it and setting up his next 'the wrong brexit' grift.

The fact is you could put a dome over the UK and not let a single person in and, as it wouldn't solve all the countries problems, you'd have the likes of Farage finding their next target. Suspect we'd first be on get all the foreigners out before they move on to first and second generation immigrants.

Only way you shut the likes of Farage up is to 'fix' the country. If people see their standard of living increasing, are able to access healthcare, see their elderly loved ones properly cared for the issue goes away.

Its not a coincidence that the popularity of people like Farage increases in times of economic hardship.

He was retired because there was nothing for him to gain being in frontline politics. The Brexit debate had been won and the Boris majority of 2019 was an electoral programme that nullified Farage.

Had the Tories delivered their manifesto pledges, not let the tax burden and immigration get to record levels, Farage would be on GB News and Richard Tice still leader of a party on around 10%, if that.

I don’t think you can underestimate just how angry people are at immigration. It’s the same all over Europe, the electorate as a whole does not the direction of travel in their communities.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Can’t believe 1 in 3 of our friends and colleagues are such sheep

 

[Grendel]

Can’t believe 1 in 3 of our friends and colleagues are such sheep

What do you mean?

 

[PVA]

Oh no Labour won with a 2% drop as the incumbent government despite being the worst government ever, in a 40% turn out by-election.

What a shameful result, Starmer must resign.

 

[Grendel]

Oh no Labour won with a 2% drop as the incumbent government despite being the worst government ever, in a 40% turn out by-election.

What a shameful result, Starmer must resign.

This wasn’t an election to a UK parliament.

The discussion was trying to analyse sensibly the result and then the Village Retard steps in with a typically pointless contribution.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think we can safely say making a projection into 2072 is a load of complete and utter bollocks.

Explain why it's bollocks.

Let's look at the observed demographics then:

 

[PVA]

This wasn’t an election to a UK parliament.

The discussion was trying to analyse sensibly the result and then the Village Retard steps in with a typically pointless contribution.

And the village c**t steps in with a typically classless contribution. Fuck off with the R word.

 

[Grendel]

Anyway back to the less mentally challenged in the room.

The result suggests 1 in 4 defected from the tories to reform and 1 in 6 from Labour to reform

 

[PVA]

It's this kind of thing that will ruin Reform, some of them just can't help but come out with shit like this:

Cambridgeshire councillor loses role for children in care remarks

Reform UK councillor Andy Osborn's comments were "clumsy and regrettable", his group leader says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Grendel]

And the village c**t steps in with a typically classless contribution. Fuck off with the R word.

Retard is a generic insult word - same as Pikey or Gay - get over yourself.