Do you want to discuss boring politics? (24 Viewers)

[David O'Day]

It also clearly states nothing it reported on had any effect on any election

Selective usage of it's finding is pretty fucking ricjh

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Also have to love the blind hatred of all things Conservative that you're willing to throw away principals that some of you spend 90% of your time on here arguing about daily, before you've even seen a manifesto to know who stands for what. I think some of you would vote Hitler party if there was a chance he could take a seat away.

Pathetic.

As a serious question, what do you think makes people not want Conservative governments?

 

[Ian1779]

It also clearly states nothing it reported on had any effect on any election

Selective usage of it's finding is pretty fucking ricjh

Ironic from you considering the previous post does exactly that.

 

[David O'Day]

Ironic from you considering the previous post does exactly that.

no it doesn't, stop talking bollocks

 

[clint van damme]

It also clearly states nothing it reported on had any effect on any election

That's not really relevant, people who were found not to have support the LOTO are now saying if you don't support starmer you're enabling the tories, that's a bit rich.

And despite that I would support starmer if I thought he had anything to offer, which I don't.

 

[SBT]

Death of the party?

 

[David O'Day]

@Ian1779

Here is a directly quote from the report

“aggravated by the mutual antagonism between HQ staff and Loto [the leader of the opposition’s office]”

so no it is not selective to say the report says both sides were idiots

it's one of it's findings

 

[David O'Day]

That's not really relevant, people who were found not to have support the LOTO are now saying if you don't support starmer you're enabling the tories, that's a bit rich.

And despite that I would support starmer if I thought he had anything to offer, which I don't.

maybe, but that is a different argumentand one there is no point in going into on here

in regards to the forde report it is clear that no ones actions it looked at had any effect on the election

 

[rob9872]

As a serious question, what do you think makes people not want Conservative governments?

Ok, as you've asked directly I'll give you my honest opinion for once rather than my usual pot stirring

Mainly I think it's the expectation that they will receive a better funded public sector (which is a huge part of the electorate) but not understanding that there is one pot of money and the services it can provide depend on the size of the pot, without realising the only way that pot grows is if they pay into it.

Secondly. there is also a huge myth that despite no Govt ever saying that they want to abolish the NHS, many have been brainwashed into believing it. There is a certain elitism to a lot of the MP's that doesn't help them either despite whether they are any good or not, lots of the GP simply can't get past the fact they can't relate to people like Rees-Mogg for example. I actually like him, but I can understand why he hasn't gone for leader as there is no way he could win a GE. Finally I think a bit of jealousy and envy of the 'haves' and 'have nots'.

If I was being mischievous, I'd also guess that the average IQ of a Conservative voter versus other parties (not on here before anyone gets into a dick waving contest) is a few points higher.

 

[Ian1779]

no it doesn't, stop talking bollocks

You implied both sides were just as culpable, so show me in the report where systemic racist abuse and harassment suffered by non-white or non-male Labour MP’s and staff was on ‘both’ sides.

You are talking out of your arse.

 

[David O'Day]

You implied both sides were just as culpable, so show me in the report where systemic racist abuse and harassment suffered by non-white or non-male Labour MP’s was on ‘both’ sides.

You are talking out of your arse.

What are you on about?

Where didn't I talk about that? As I clearly stated and backed up with quotes from the report both sides acted like idiots

I did not say they both did the same things

You are now selectively quoting the report when accusing me of me selective

The irony

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Also have to love the blind hatred of all things Conservative that you're willing to throw away principals that some of you spend 90% of your time on here arguing about daily, before you've even seen a manifesto to know who stands for what. I think some of you would vote Hitler party if there was a chance he could take a seat away.

Pathetic.

Mark Pawsey has some rather dubious views I couldn't support regardless of who was leader.

Fortunately, he's not my MP however.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ok, as you've asked directly I'll give you my honest opinion for once rather than my usual pot stirring

Mainly I think it's the expectation that they will receive a better funded public sector (which is a huge part of the electorate) but not understanding that there is one pot of money and the services it can provide depend on the size of the pot, without realising the only way that pot grows is if they pay into it.

Secondly. there is also a huge myth that despite no Govt ever saying that they want to abolish the NHS, many have been brainwashed into believing it. There is a certain elitism to a lot of the MP's that doesn't help them either despite whether they are any good or not, lots of the GP simply can't get past the fact they can't relate to people like Rees-Mogg for example. I actually like him, but I can understand why he hasn't gone for leader as there is no way he could win a GE. Finally I think a bit of jealousy and envy of the 'haves' and 'have nots'.

If I was being mischievous, I'd also guess that the average IQ of a Conservative voter versus other parties (not on here before anyone gets into a dick waving contest) is a few points higher.

Fair dos for being honest-thoughts

1. You're partly right-those of us who work in the public sector want it better resourced so we can deliver a better service and associate Tory governments with underfunding, downsizing or privatising. Those measures make it harder to do what we entered those professions to do and weaken the service provided.

Counter point-most of us are willing to pay a bit more to have stronger public services.

2. There has undoubtedly been a growing private influence in the NHS. Education is a strong example, where most schools are now privately run, but state funded. So we have had a lot more management and executive positions created as part of these 'multi academy trusts' which sucks a lot of money out of the system for no direct benefit to the front line service, which didn't exist before when the schools were controlled directly by local authorities. At least in my case I strongly believe that healthcare and education are two areas where there should be minimal privatisation (and yes I'm aware I went to a private school).

3. Fair point, and I don't think many MPs can really relate to the idea of not having enough money to meet your living costs. If I were being mischievous myself I'd assume there's a higher % of those in the party that historically is of the gentry and upper class. I don't think everyone should earn the same-but I do think the rich-poor gap is too wide and it will only grow wider with a centre right or right wing government.

4. IQ has long been debunked at least in education circles as a reliable measure of intelligence. Though we do know there was a pretty strong correlation between being more well educated and voting Labour at least in the 2019 election. Not to claim that more qualifications always equals smarter of course.

How Britain voted in the 2019 general election | YouGov

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Counter point-most of us are willing to pay a bit more to have stronger public services.

It's fair to say there is an expectation from many of services without cost, but that's not necessarily from Labour voters. That said, an understanding of what needs to be done may swing some to Labour... and said situation possibly countermands his last point

It's also partly why we when up with things like PFI too. Somewhere, we need to win an argument that tax can be good, but appreciate that's an easier argument to win the other way, as self interest is easier to explain by money in your pocket immediately rather than down the line.

 

[skybluetony176]

It was Rugby before then, Bill Price was MP (Labour!!) It was adding Kenilworth turned it Tory as they were more affluent and, well, Tories.

It's not a safe Tory seat, it is an MP with a local reputation that holds him there.

Not so sure it’s his local reputation that holds him there. I’m yet to meet someone from Rugby who doesn’t think he’s a twat. He’s not all bad, he supported the early day motions on football governance that used us as an example of change needed, he’s also made the right noises regarding Brandon stadium supporting local efforts to see a change of ownership that sees motorsport return to the site rather than developed for housing.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Not so sure it’s his local reputation that holds him there. I’m yet to meet someone from Rugby who doesn’t think he’s a twat. He’s not all bad, he supported the early day motions on football governance that used us as an example of change needed, he’s also made the right noises regarding Brandon stadium supporting local efforts to see a change of ownership that sees motorsport return to the site rather than developed for housing.

He does work reasonably hard for his local community - he's the only MP who could be arsed to attend the Rugby stop off on a series of events I ran.

His Dad was reasonably well thought of too, which helps.

 

[rob9872]

Purely to satisfy my curiosity, does anyone have any stats to hand of voting % by party at the last few elections of private sector workers versus public sector workers and those who don't work at all?

*Edit: not looking for cheap point scoring because I think I know the answer (I could be wrong), but merely wondering how skewed one way or the other they were.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Purely to satisfy my curiosity, does anyone have any stats to hand of voting % by party at the last few elections of private sector workers versus public sector workers and those who don't work at all?

I'd hope you wouldn't need it for public sector workers!

Although there was a lad at our workplace, had a disability that needed support and meant he needed to live at home, worked in the public sector partly as a social service to him, his Mum was a single Mum who was a teacher...

He voted Conservative.

Even you'd surely concede that on a self interest level, that was the turkey voting for Christmas!

 

[Grendel]

I'd hope you wouldn't need it for public sector workers!

Although there was a lad at our workplace, had a disability that needed support and meant he needed to live at home, worked in the public sector partly as a social service to him, his Mum was a single Mum who was a teacher...

He voted Conservative.

Even you'd surely concede that on a self interest level, that was the turkey voting for Christmas!

I know 3 teachers and all are die hard Tory voters always have been and all work in the public sector

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I know 3 teachers and all are die hard Tory voters always have been and all work in the public sector

I think it's safe to assume the profession overall would heavily trend Labour

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Ok, as you've asked directly I'll give you my honest opinion for once rather than my usual pot stirring

Mainly I think it's the expectation that they will receive a better funded public sector (which is a huge part of the electorate) but not understanding that there is one pot of money and the services it can provide depend on the size of the pot, without realising the only way that pot grows is if they pay into it.

Well, if the size of the pot only grows if you pay into it, surely giving tax breaks to those most able to pay into it is a massive problem. A policy which has been a cornerstone of Tory thinking for a long time.

Secondly. there is also a huge myth that despite no Govt ever saying that they want to abolish the NHS, many have been brainwashed into believing it. There is a certain elitism to a lot of the MP's that doesn't help them either despite whether they are any good or not, lots of the GP simply can't get past the fact they can't relate to people like Rees-Mogg for example. I actually like him, but I can understand why he hasn't gone for leader as there is no way he could win a GE. Finally I think a bit of jealousy and envy of the 'haves' and 'have nots'.

So, from this are you saying you think that the Tories are looking to privatise the NHS and certain members of the electorate have been fooled into thinking they wouldn't? In which case your next point...

If I was being mischievous, I'd also guess that the average IQ of a Conservative voter versus other parties (not on here before anyone gets into a dick waving contest) is a few points higher.

Have you checked the analysis of level of education against voting?

 

[rob9872]

How on earth you've red that from what I posted only you will know.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Johnson's last PMQs underway and begins with weak sauce Hoyle leading a tribute.

 

[shmmeee]

Ok, as you've asked directly I'll give you my honest opinion for once rather than my usual pot stirring

Mainly I think it's the expectation that they will receive a better funded public sector (which is a huge part of the electorate) but not understanding that there is one pot of money and the services it can provide depend on the size of the pot, without realising the only way that pot grows is if they pay into it.

Secondly. there is also a huge myth that despite no Govt ever saying that they want to abolish the NHS, many have been brainwashed into believing it. There is a certain elitism to a lot of the MP's that doesn't help them either despite whether they are any good or not, lots of the GP simply can't get past the fact they can't relate to people like Rees-Mogg for example. I actually like him, but I can understand why he hasn't gone for leader as there is no way he could win a GE. Finally I think a bit of jealousy and envy of the 'haves' and 'have nots'.

What does history tell us about which party funds public services better? And for that matter which runs fewer deficits?

If I was being mischievous, I'd also guess that the average IQ of a Conservative voter versus other parties (not on here before anyone gets into a dick waving contest) is a few points higher.

Ah man you’ve really asked for this.

Do smart people tend to be more liberal? Yes, but it doesn’t mean all conservatives are stupid

Several recently reported cross-cultural studies show the correlation between social conservatism and intelligence is lower than previously thought.

theconversation.com

 

[shmmeee]

I know 3 teachers and all are die hard Tory voters always have been and all work in the public sector

No way! Persons friends are of similar polticial persuasion what are the odds?

I work in Fintech and the entire office is Labour.

 

[David O'Day]

Johnson going out in a wimper

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What I don't understand in the arguments that come from Johnson is that it's praiseworthy to put back some of the money that years of cuts took away. To restore some of the police that left, to hire some of the nurses that left etc.

I guess when you've been in power for so long it's easy to forget who took these things away in the first place.

 

[David O'Day]

What I don't understand in the arguments that come from Johnson is that it's praiseworthy to put back some of the money that years of cuts took away. To restore some of the police that left, to hire some of the nurses that left etc.

I guess when you've been in power for so long it's easy to forget who took these things away in the first place.

He's just a pointless waste of space who in future generations will be looked back on as a WTF moment in British history.

 

[Grendel]

He's just a pointless waste of space who in future generations will be looked back on as a WTF moment in British history.

Harsh on Starmer that

 

[PVA]

If I was being mischievous, I'd also guess that the average IQ of a Conservative voter versus other parties (not on here before anyone gets into a dick waving contest) is a few points higher.

Wow

So the clever people vote for the party most likely to fuck the country up.

Doesn't sound very... Clever.

 

[David O'Day]

Wow

So the clever people vote for the party most likely to fuck the country up.

Doesn't sound very... Clever.

Was there a US study that linked being right wing with being less intelligent?

 

[skybluetony176]

An easy PMQ’s for Starmer, just read out the confessions of failures from those who are standing to replace him. They all called him out and admitted that 12 years of Tory rule has fucked the country big time.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So the Speaker tells someone off for quoting 'Pincher by nature' but as usual never tells off the PM for lying to the House. At least there was a follow up quoting 'let the bodies pile high'.

 

[skybluetony176]

Wow

So the clever people vote for the party most likely to fuck the country up.

Doesn't sound very... Clever.

The only thing an IQ test is useful for is testing your ability to do an IQ test, which you can be tutored in.

The person most famous for bragging about their IQ in recent times thought you could safely ingest bleach if you want evidence that it means fuck all. They literally put warnings on bottles to tell someone like that that they aren’t as clever as they think they are.

 

[David O'Day]

Johnson a lifetime of failure

‘It’s been a disaster’: how Boris Johnson’s docklands business hub turned into a ghost town

The former mayor touted the £1.7bn London development as a vibrant beacon for Asian companies. Now there isn’t a single tenant – though the dystopian setting is attracting film crews

www.theguardian.com