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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (27 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • May 2, 2021
  • #1,751
shmmeee said:
You’re just being a woke liberal leftie metropolitan who doesn’t understand the working man’s way of communicating.

In this article for Spiked mrtrench Brendan O’Neil argues...
Click to expand...

I didn't realise the working class were an homogenous mass until Brendan pointed it out.
Must have a huge brain behind that massive forehead.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 2, 2021
  • #1,752
Grendel has almost 60,000 posts. I don't think he's been outside for a long time.

I'm off to play golf. Have a good day all.
 
Reactions: wingy

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 2, 2021
  • #1,753
PVA said:
Facebook is absolutely full of right leaning 50+ year olds
Click to expand...

figure of speech
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 2, 2021
  • #1,754
PVA said:
Grendel has almost 60,000 posts. I don't think he's been outside for a long time.

I'm off to play golf. Have a good day all.
Click to expand...

Is Tony caddying? Make sure he remembers the bag
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 2, 2021
  • #1,755
Grendel said:
figure of speech
Click to expand...

"A figure of speech is a word or phrase that entails an intentional deviation from ordinary language use in order to produce a rhetorical effect."

Happy to help.

Now go outside
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 2, 2021
  • #1,756
PVA said:
"A figure of speech is a word or phrase that entails an intentional deviation from ordinary language use in order to produce a rhetorical effect."

Happy to help.

Now go outside
Click to expand...

I am outside - doesn’t your phone work outside? Does your Facebook account?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 2, 2021
  • #1,757
clint van damme said:
Sat in the garden as we speak.
It really is a beautiful day.
Click to expand...
Wait until tomorrow - plenty of opportunity for purile arguments then.
 
Reactions: clint van damme and wingy
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • May 2, 2021
  • #1,758
If only George Osborne hadn't done away with those pesky Sure Start centre's?

 

Skybluefaz

Well-Known Member
  • May 2, 2021
  • #1,759
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,760
There is always something indifferent when the Tories wheel out Liz Truss to speak for them.


 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,761
So, a few things of interest over the weekend.

First one is Labour is due to lose around 60 red wall council seats this election according to YouGov.

 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,762
Dudley probably going Conservative. Do the Tories have the 1/3 of voting powers in the executive of the WMCA if the Public return Andy Street that people in Coventry who vote Labour will lose their say with what happens in their own City with the WMCA?

And all this in what's left in the perceived Labour heartlands. Apparently a projected 9% swing to the Tories.

Imagine what it's going to be like elsewhere!

 
Last edited: May 4, 2021

SomersetSB

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,763
Starmer getting his message across well then,Looks like a hammering as well in the Hartlepool by election.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,764
It’sabatch87 said:
Starmer getting his message across well then,Looks like a hammering as well in the Hartlepool by election.
Click to expand...

That poll can’t be correct. End of Starmer if it is.
 
Reactions: SomersetSB and shmmeee

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,765
Grendel said:
That poll can’t be correct. End of Starmer if it is.
Click to expand...

Who else is there? At the very least, during those Corbyn years, you could see that Starmer is intelligent - unlike anyone else in that shadow front bench.

Look at the betting: the favourite isn't even an MP any more.

 
Reactions: TomRad85

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,766
mrtrench said:
Who else is there? At the very least, during those Corbyn years, you could see that Starmer is intelligent - unlike anyone else in that shadow front bench.

Look at the betting: the favourite isn't even an MP any more.

View attachment 19940
Click to expand...

Yvette Cooper would be ok but wouldn’t get through the Union door

It would be best if they got Raynor and Burgon in and moderates this time have courage to walk away
 
Reactions: SomersetSB and shmmeee

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,767
Not only were the people of Coventry not given the vote for the creation of the WMCA in a referendum but now could be losing all control over what happens in their own city with the WMCA.

Cheers Ann. The woman with the reverse Midas touch. Everything she touches turns to shit.
 
Last edited: May 4, 2021
Reactions: RedSalmon, chiefdave and Grendel

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,768
Grendel said:
Yvette Cooper would be ok but wouldn’t get through the Union door

It would be best if they got Raynor and Burgon in and moderates this time have courage to walk away
Click to expand...

I used to follow some of the Corbyn outriders on Twitter... they'll vote for Lavery if given the chance over the others, with Burgon next best. Or Pidcock, who is also no longer an MP. What they really want is Corbyn back but I don't think that will happen. I'm no longer there so don't have more recent information.

If they want a moderate, Burnham I guess, or Nandy or Cooper. I suspect that Cooper may be winding down though, since Balls left. Maybe not - we'll see.

The moderates will not walk away and neither will the outriders. The brand is too important - and they've both seen what happened to the Gang of Four and more recently the Change UK lot.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,769
mrtrench said:
Look at the betting: the favourite isn't even an MP any more.
Click to expand...
My Mum, who is a Daily Mail reading Thatcher loving lifelong Conservative voter, thinks Burnham is fantastic. Not entirely sure why to be honest.

Also thinks Sultana, who she didn't vote for, is the best MP she's ever had. Funny business politics.
 
Reactions: shmmeee and mrtrench

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,770
Sultana is the latest rumour for who they’re going to dredge up from the talent puddle to challenge Starmer. Which should tell you how serious any of this is.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,771
A good thread for those that want to see the wood from the trees:

 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,772
Grendel said:
You said over 50’s The Tonester says over 65’s - so ok that was nonsense then as it’s actually in a room of 10 only 2 are 50 plus

What about the other “fact” regarding right wing news items? Anything to support that at all?
Click to expand...
I didn’t say anything. I quoted actual facts. The only age groups where users of Facebook is growing is in the older age groups, especially the over 65’s. That’s actual facts.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,773
Nandy would be the best leader for Labour. A clean candidate who opposed Corbyn but remained loyal to traditional Labour values. The Labour Party would be mad to not vote her the next leader.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,774
Meanwhile, Tories continue to out Diane Abbot Diane Abbot
 
Reactions: clint van damme

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,775
skybluetony176 said:
I didn’t say anything. I quoted actual facts. The only age groups where users of Facebook is growing is in the older age groups, especially the over 65’s. That’s actual facts.
Click to expand...

OK, I'll bite. This is for other people, not you Tony, as you'll continue arguing the toss no matter how indefensible your corner.

1. It is a fact that use of FB is growing in older age groups.
2. It is a fact that the majority of people on FB are younger.
3. Only one of those facts is relevant to Ian's original position, which was in response to a statement that Social Media is dominated by the young. It's the second fact. Growth rates are irrelevant for conversations about the present demographic.


Let me try with a completely different situation, as a metaphor.

Most cars on the road in the UK are powered by petrol or diesel. It's only a tiny proportion of all cars on the road that are electric.

However, the proportion of new cars that are electric being sold each year is growing very quickly: 3.2% of all new cars in 2019 up to 10.7% in 2020. That doesn't change the fact that there are still many many more cars on the road that are powered by petrol and diesel than are electric.

You wouldn't argue, for example, that car pollution is a thing of the past, because the proportion of electric cars being sold each year is rising. Similarly, you cannot argue that most people on FB are old, because that demographic is rising... when you've already been shown that still, in aggregate, it's dominated by the young.

Got it?

Here's an exercise to hone your new skill:

---

“Many organisations find it beneficial to employ students over the summer. Permanent staff often wish to take their own holidays over this period. Furthermore, it is not uncommon for companies to experience peak workloads in the summer and so require extra staff. Summer employment also attracts students who may return as well-qualified recruits to an organisation when they have completed their education. Ensuring that the students learn as much as possible about the organisation encourages interest in working on a permanent basis. Organisations pay students on a fixed rate without the usual entitlement to paid holidays or bonus schemes.”

Reply with True, False or Cannot say:

Statement 1: It is possible that permanent staff who are on holiday can have their work carried out by students.
Statement 2: Students in summer employment are given the same paid holiday benefit as permanent staff.
Statement 3: Students are subject to the organisation’s standard disciplinary and grievance procedures.
Statement 4: Some companies have more work to do in the summer when students are available for vacation work.

Good luck!
 
Reactions: SomersetSB and Grendel

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,776
mrtrench said:
The moderates will not walk away and neither will the outriders. The brand is too important - and they've both seen what happened to the Gang of Four and more recently the Change UK lot.
Click to expand...
Think the opportunity for that type if split has passed. it needed the centrists on both the Conservative and Labour sides to join when the Change MPs left. With the situation with Corbyn along with the Johnson purge it was the perfect opportunity but the execution was shambolic and gave zero incentive for anyone else to join. But as their subsequent performance at the election showed FPTP isn't really a system that allows for three 'major' parties.

If the Labour vote does continue to decline there's no sign of any other party picking up the slack. Does anyone see a liberal surge to become a genuine contender because I certainly don't. I reckon if you stopped people in the street a decent percentage wouldn't even know who the current leader is.
 
Reactions: SomersetSB and mrtrench

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,777
chiefdave said:
Think the opportunity for that type if split has passed. it needed the centrists on both the Conservative and Labour sides to join when the Change MPs left. With the situation with Corbyn along with the Johnson purge it was the perfect opportunity but the execution was shambolic and gave zero incentive for anyone else to join. But as their subsequent performance at the election showed FPTP isn't really a system that allows for three 'major' parties.

If the Labour vote does continue to decline there's no sign of any other party picking up the slack. Does anyone see a liberal surge to become a genuine contender because I certainly don't. I reckon if you stopped people in the street a decent percentage wouldn't even know who the current leader is.
Click to expand...

I agree, I can't see the Lib Dems picking up the slack. It'll have to be a brand new party. Something similar to Macron in France (I know that hasn't panned out well for him in terms of popularity - but he still got elected).
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,778
All hail the Dear Leader.


"Boris Johnson’s government has appointed a known partisan to the BBC board, in an overt bid to politicise a governance body supposed to be free from political influence.

Robbie Gibb, a former aide to two Tory politicians – he served as Theresa May’s director of communications in No 10, and as chief of staff to former Tory shadow chancellor Francis Maude in the 1990s – has been made the board’s member of England. The role was previously filled by Ashley Steel, the former global head of transport for KPMG, whose political anonymity was typical for those on the BBC board. Gibb, by contrast, is a political appointee filling what has historically been an apolitical role."
 
R

RedSalmon

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,779
chiefdave said:
My Mum, who is a Daily Mail reading Thatcher loving lifelong Conservative voter, thinks Burnham is fantastic. Not entirely sure why to be honest.

Also thinks Sultana, who she didn't vote for, is the best MP she's ever had. Funny business politics.
Click to expand...

A few years ago, just before the election that Miliband lost, both he and Burnham came along to where I worked and engaged in an open forum discussion. Everyone who was there afterwards agreed that Miliband was way out of his depth, but everyone who spoke to Burnham was very impressed with his understanding, communication and ability to engage with people. Got the opportunity to speak to him on a one to one basis (afterwards) and came away very impressed and have been surprised that he has not been seriously tipped to take charge of the Labour party.
 
Reactions: clint van damme, SomersetSB and mrtrench

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,780
shmmeee said:
A good thread for those that want to see the wood from the trees:

Click to expand...
What point is she trying to make there?

Looking at the previous election is looks like Brexit party votes were roughly 70% Labour voters, 30% Conservative. If they go back to the two main parties 80/20 or 70/30 in the Conservatives favour that's a huge Labour to Conservative swing over two elections isn't it?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,781
chiefdave said:
What point is she trying to make there?

Looking at the previous election is looks like Brexit party votes were roughly 70% Labour voters, 30% Conservative. If they go back to the two main parties 80/20 or 70/30 in the Conservatives favour that's a huge Labour to Conservative swing over two elections isn't it?
Click to expand...

Yep. But the point is they were lost in 2015.
It’s nothing to do with the stories of the day, that was a Conservative seat years ago.
 

ccfctommy

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,782
I think I will give the lib dems my vote this Thursday.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,783
ccfctommy said:
I think I will give the lib dems my vote this Thursday.
Click to expand...
Currently here I've had one Tory, and one TUSC leaflet - that's it. Given one of our councillors died, you'd think the mooted replacement would be doing some campaigning, at the very least!

As for the Police Commissioner, I have no clue who any of them are, or what they want to do.

How can I vote, if nobody wants to tell me what (and who!) I'm voting for! At least I got the booklet with the mayoral candidates, I suppose!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,784
Feel a bit silly voting in the locals when I’m moving out of the council area two days later.

Not voting Labour for WM Mayor until they give me a sensible candidate to vote for. Sick of the Midlands being the red headed stepchild of local areas.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 4, 2021
  • #1,785
mrtrench said:
OK, I'll bite. This is for other people, not you Tony, as you'll continue arguing the toss no matter how indefensible your corner.

1. It is a fact that use of FB is growing in older age groups.
2. It is a fact that the majority of people on FB are younger.
3. Only one of those facts is relevant to Ian's original position, which was in response to a statement that Social Media is dominated by the young. It's the second fact. Growth rates are irrelevant for conversations about the present demographic.


Let me try with a completely different situation, as a metaphor.

Most cars on the road in the UK are powered by petrol or diesel. It's only a tiny proportion of all cars on the road that are electric.

However, the proportion of new cars that are electric being sold each year is growing very quickly: 3.2% of all new cars in 2019 up to 10.7% in 2020. That doesn't change the fact that there are still many many more cars on the road that are powered by petrol and diesel than are electric.

You wouldn't argue, for example, that car pollution is a thing of the past, because the proportion of electric cars being sold each year is rising. Similarly, you cannot argue that most people on FB are old, because that demographic is rising... when you've already been shown that still, in aggregate, it's dominated by the young.

Got it?

Here's an exercise to hone your new skill:

---

“Many organisations find it beneficial to employ students over the summer. Permanent staff often wish to take their own holidays over this period. Furthermore, it is not uncommon for companies to experience peak workloads in the summer and so require extra staff. Summer employment also attracts students who may return as well-qualified recruits to an organisation when they have completed their education. Ensuring that the students learn as much as possible about the organisation encourages interest in working on a permanent basis. Organisations pay students on a fixed rate without the usual entitlement to paid holidays or bonus schemes.”

Reply with True, False or Cannot say:

Statement 1: It is possible that permanent staff who are on holiday can have their work carried out by students.
Statement 2: Students in summer employment are given the same paid holiday benefit as permanent staff.
Statement 3: Students are subject to the organisation’s standard disciplinary and grievance procedures.
Statement 4: Some companies have more work to do in the summer when students are available for vacation work.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
I never said otherwise. I just pointed out that the demographics of Facebook users are changing. Which they are.
 
Reactions: PVA
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