chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I would say the detail will be important but sadly the last few years have shown that few people are bothered about detail so it will come down to if they can convince people they can deliver on what they are saying.
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Detail is a bad idea three years from an election. It ties you to specifics that can change massively before election time. This period is about messaging and general public perception. Generally political messaging isn’t for the people in this thread, and it takes a lot of repetition over time to get through to the normies who aren’t following politics.
Starmer himself is a worry, but the tactics are pretty much spot on for what Labour need to be doing IMO.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Im going to hazard a guess at the ones which have left , and say they are of no real loss at all.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Standard after a leadership competition. Same happened under Corbyn.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
No matter what , its still in my best interest to vote for Labour..
Go off on your way and join the northern independence Party, join the greens , join the lib dems , or whatever fringe left wing warrior group you choose ...
But please , do not moan when the tories win again ....SIMPLE
Go off on your way and join the northern independence Party, join the greens , join the lib dems , or whatever fringe left wing warrior group you choose ...
But please , do not moan when the tories win again ....SIMPLE
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Pretty much.
I agree. It’s also short and snappy messaging which has proven to be effective with voters
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It needs to be condensed into 3 words
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
What does it even mean? Why are Labour trying to play in the Tories' natural space? Why aren't they using this war like event (covid) to come up with some postwar like solutions?
Why would I vote for Labour if they're just promising the same thing as the Tories?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It means “we can be trusted not to tax you loads and spend on everything like we know you’re worried we will do”
Because we need to win votes from the Tories.
Because most people don’t see Covid as some massive even but a public health crisis to be managed then moved on from.
Because they’re more competent and less nasty.
Your problem is looking at it as a lefty. Most people aren’t lefties. Of course the messaging isn’t for you.
Was Cameron wrong to hug a hoodie and waffle about climate change when the Tories were seen as evil and anti-science? Was Johnson wrong to promise public service spending and investment in towns? No, that’s how elections are won: from the centre.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
That worked perfectly in 2010 and 2015 didn't it?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It did for the Tories.
Do I really need to point to 2017 and 2019 for evidence against the navel gazing strategy you propose?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Do you seriously believe that another 2015 pitch in 2017 or 2019 would have resulted in a different outcome?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
2017 had the highest Labour vote for a long time. May was IDS in a skirt. There for the taking and to be honest if McDonnell was leader they may have had the highest vote share.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
As supposed to pointing to 1997 and thinking that world is still relevant?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Electoral maths is always relevant. Most people aren’t far left so appealing to the far left won’t win.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yeah I mean Labour only need to flip over 120 seats pretty much exclusively in England.
Where do I start? Because they are not so obviously incompetent. Labour might not be great but they would not be so ruinously bad for the country as this Government.
Personally I think it is quite clear what it means.
Nearly 140k dead from covid, terrible trade deals, abandoning people who supported us in Afghanistan to the Taliban, how much worse does it need to be?
But hey let's keep going on about deficiencies of Labour rather than the dreadful Government.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
No one is saying they will. And as you say, electoral maths is relevant - even more so that Scotland is gone for good as far as Labour is concerned. So how is it going to make all the gains it needs… by re-harnessing all their best hits from 97 in a world that now needs something more? Every single metric of prosperity is declining for the vast majority of the people in this country…
Grendel
Well-Known Member
you honestly think I blair and brown were starting now they wouldn’t have a million times better chance of success than the idiots who have followed?
Bang em incessantly until they stop bankrupting apartment owner's changing the cladding.
Bang em incessantly until every Windrush victim recieves their compo .
Bang em on the Grenfell inquiry.
Bang em on Afghanistan.
Bang em on the committee report regards Rona response and don't stop.
Bang em incessantly until every Windrush victim recieves their compo .
Bang em on the Grenfell inquiry.
Bang em on Afghanistan.
Bang em on the committee report regards Rona response and don't stop.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Again - calling Starmer out for being fucking hopeless is not an endorsement of the Tories. His job is to offer an alternative so people have a choice… he’s failing in every single aspect of this.
JAM See
Well-Known Member
'Tax is Good'
It'll never catch on. But people who go to the doctor's, drive on roads, have a midwife deliver their children, see the children go to junior school, see the children go to big school, have their shit disappear somewhere every time they have a poo need to realise that this costs money and creates jobs.
They need to realise that paying tax is a GOOD THING.
Paying tax is what any grown up should be happy to do.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
If you are asking me if Blair/Brown were looking at today’s landscape would they been savvy enough to know they needed to do more?
Probably yes
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Have you ever read any of my other posts about politics?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
but most people don’t want your vision - they don’t want it
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Tax doesn't actually pay for any of those things and it's really time to make that clear. The issue with the concept of taxpayer's money is that it sets an artificial limit on spending that just does not need to be there.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
most people want aspiration and to grow their personal wealth
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The Tories I know are still busy criticising the proposed minimum wage increase and calling Labour full of 'wokeys' so they'll never vote for them. To which the reply 'a higher minimum wage reduces the benefit bill' was met with 'yeah but you'll put people out of business' despite vast and overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The evidence was then dismissed as 'left wing economists' opinion'.
These people will never be convinced
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Funny because when we discussed substantive and progressive ways you could put more cash in people's pockets you said that nobody cares about policy so it doesn't matter
Grendel
Well-Known Member
it doesn’t but it’s the perception who is most likely to deliver that. Dinosaurs like Rayner and Mcloskey are turn offs to the vast majority of the country
So labour need to watch and hope enough people feel the pain from interest hikes really.
Or further tax hikes come around from all the spending.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
The young people of the future can aspire to pay off someone else’s mortgage.
Joy unconfined.