Do you want to discuss boring politics? (38 Viewers)

PVA said:

Polanski massively out of his depth when questioned on fairly basic stuff

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SBAndy said:

As with many things, I think the truth/the solution lies somewhere in the middle. No one wants to see genuinely incapacitated people struggling to make ends meet, but equally we don’t want people taking the piss. Means testing all benefits is an additional cost and would take a huge amount of time invested to understand someone’s personal circumstances, whether their incapacity prevents them from doing *any* work and whether it’s something that is permanent or temporary. I’d be in favour of the above personally but clearly there’s limitations, and I think Treasury brain thinking means they weigh up the cost of administering the means testing vs the cost of making it a blanket benefit, rather than thinking about the economic multiplier effect that comes about through work.

Equally, though, you’d then get the scare stories of a 60 year old with no legs having to go to a meeting to justify that they can’t work.

As said, I like MMB’s example of adjusting the PTA but wouldn’t want benefits removed altogether. Could you tier that so that, if you’re in work, you effectively get more of a benefit? I don’t know, and it is counterintuitive because someone with additional income shouldn’t get additional help (theoretically).

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The reassessment of incapacity benefit claimants for employment and support allowance using the work capability assessment is linked to an additional 590 suicides in England, according to new research by academics from Oxford and Liverpool universities. It is also implicated in an additional 279,000 people developing mental health conditions and 725,000 more antidepressant prescriptions being issued.

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chiefdave said:

We've been down the route of stricter assessments before, it didn't go well.

A lot of the times when this sort of discussion comes up it somes to skirt very close to saying mental health issues not being something we should class alongside other conditions.

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chiefdave said:

We've been down the route of stricter assessments before, it didn't go well.

A lot of the times when this sort of discussion comes up it somes to skirt very close to saying mental health issues not being something we should class alongside other conditions.

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Grendel said:

You don’t even need a diagnosis for PIP

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SBAndy said:

I know, and it’s kind of my reticence with it. But it needs solving somehow.




Is it a bonkers idea for the NHS and DWP to share data to ensure they don’t put people through unnecessary stress? Referencing my (theoretical) idea of the 60 year old with no legs getting hauled to a meeting.

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Sbarcher said:

I have a friend who is a tax accountant. He does not take on too many clients, but the ones he has are very high wealth individuals running successful businesses.
He told me before the budget that 3 of them had asked about tax implications of leaving the UK.
These individuals pay alot of personal and company tax as well as employing people who then pay tax and NI.

Now, 'm not judging, but would I move abroad to protect my wealth or stay and pay my whack to the country which has allowed me to flourish and grow?

Hard choice?

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Mucca Mad Boys said:

I don’t fancy being punished for being productive and paying more tax to pay for more welfare claimants.

Why do you and @SBT just not interact with the data? The number of people claiming benefits has increased at an unsustainable rate. Your base assumption that no one is choosing this lifestyle is naive.

Have either of you been around genuine poverty?


An increase of 43k is significant Dave. Particularly when they tend to be more economically productive.


You can’t be serious here…

No, I’m not in favour of subsidising unemployed families having larger families paid for by taxpayers. There’s a strong link to generational dependence on welfare.

Working families deserve all the support they need in raising children. Not being taxed to support the former group.

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eastwoodsdustman said:

I still live on the estate that I grew up on (I'm 54) and it was originally part council part self owned. I know of at least 2 families who have never worked and that includes their now adult kids as well as other single adults who have no inclination to work.
I also have some distant relatives living in the city who have never worked and their kids are now in their 50's with families doing the same.
It is a cycle and it is a problem and has been for a very long time.

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chiefdave said:

We've been down the route of stricter assessments before, it didn't go well.

A lot of the times when this sort of discussion comes up it somes to skirt very close to saying mental health issues not being something we should class alongside other conditions.

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