Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · 2025-08-22T07:15:24+0100

rob9872 said:
100% accurate and nothing to argue, but what was gained by a prison sentence and separation from her family? Lost job, became a martyr, a political pawn and will go on costing the taxpayer.

200 hours community service and we'd never have heard from her again and everyone benefits.

Despite lots of point scoring from both sides, there are no winners in this.

The sentence was within sentencing guidelines for her crime. It wasn’t even the most severe sentence that could have been passed down. Maybe her legal team didn’t do such a bad job after all. Maybe the real discussion is about sentencing guidelines?

But playing devils advocate’s for a moment if this had have been a Muslim woman and a mother saying burn down army barracks while solders are inside then a lot of the same people arguing that the punishment is too hard in Lucy Connollys case would now be arguing that it’s too lenient. Probably while still claiming that there’s a two tier justice system without any irony. Just look how a lot of the same peoples respond to airplanes being spray painted as a way of protest, or even the government’s own response for that matter.

As the old adage says, if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime.

shmmeee · 2025-08-22T07:22:38+0100

rob9872 said:
100% accurate and nothing to argue, but what was gained by a prison sentence and separation from her family? Lost job, became a martyr, a political pawn and will go on costing the taxpayer.

200 hours community service and we'd never have heard from her again and everyone benefits.

Despite lots of point scoring from both sides, there are no winners in this.

We lock people up when they’re involved in ongoing riots mainly to stop the riots. That’s the win. One less person encouraging violence on the streets. One less person doing violence on the streets. Less violence on the streets.

And it works because this summer most of the ring leaders were still in prison so no violence on the streets.

shmmeee · 2025-08-22T07:29:43+0100

Every single poll looks like this. Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic.

Remember that next time one goes on about people being in bubbles. All the data suggests the only bubble in politics really is reform voters who seem to live in a separate reality to the vast majority of the country but insist everyone thinks like them.

rob9872 · 2025-08-22T09:40:23+0100

She's now a ring leader???? FFS this place is so toxic and skewed.

rob9872 · 2025-08-22T09:43:10+0100

shmmeee said:
Every single poll looks like this. Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic.

View attachment 45365
Remember that next time one goes on about people being in bubbles. All the data suggests the only bubble in politics really is reform voters who seem to live in a separate reality to the vast majority of the country but insist everyone thinks like them.

Yes they've definitely polled every Reform voter. They wear Tommy underpants sing God save the king at night, have a Farage FC shirt, don't work, IQ under 100 and are all white gammon males.

Do you see how this assumption that such a large number of people are the same would in any other demographic be deemed discriminatory or worse?

rob9872 · 2025-08-22T09:55:02+0100

skybluetony176 said:
The sentence was within sentencing guidelines for her crime. It wasn’t even the most severe sentence that could have been passed down. Maybe her legal team didn’t do such a bad job after all. Maybe the real discussion is about sentencing guidelines?

But playing devils advocate’s for a moment if this had have been a Muslim woman and a mother saying burn down army barracks while solders are inside then a lot of the same people arguing that the punishment is too hard in Lucy Connollys case would now be arguing that it’s too lenient. Probably while still claiming that there’s a two tier justice system without any irony. Just look how a lot of the same peoples respond to airplanes being spray painted as a way of protest, or even the government’s own response for that matter.

As the old adage says, if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime.

Even when someone agrees with you we have to endure a whataboutery rant. You're very unhinged Tony, I'd love to know if you actually believe what you type or if it's all a huge facade.

Grendel · 2025-08-22T10:16:29+0100

shmmeee said:
Every single poll looks like this. Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic.

View attachment 45365
Remember that next time one goes on about people being in bubbles. All the data suggests the only bubble in politics really is reform voters who seem to live in a separate reality to the vast majority of the country but insist everyone thinks like them.

The 20% is actually 28% and that seems a very odd poll given these voters haven't just appeared from Mars and would have voted for other parties at some point unless it is actually the younger voters given Reform seems to appeal to the youth vote.

Nick · 2025-08-22T10:37:08+0100

shmmeee said:
Every single poll looks like this. Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic.

View attachment 45365
Remember that next time one goes on about people being in bubbles. All the data suggests the only bubble in politics really is reform voters who seem to live in a separate reality to the vast majority of the country but insist everyone thinks like them.

Why are you obsessed with these polls?

Grendel · 2025-08-22T10:40:23+0100

Nick said:
Why are you obsessed with these polls?

Its a pretty strange poll to quote - whats the point of it?

Grendel · 2025-08-22T10:45:21+0100

For context its all here

A round-up of recent polling on Ukraine and defence | YouGov

A look at data from polls in December, January and February

yougov.co.uk

Its pretty ridiculous - Labour and Lib Dems want those troops but then are against meeting spend commitments and yet Reform do - the Lib Dems want us in a European Army - its unhinged bollocks

PVA · 2025-08-22T11:02:31+0100

It shows that Reform voters have a hard on for Russia and Putin, unsurprising I guess given their dear leader's views.

Sky Blue Pete · 2025-08-22T11:07:10+0100

rob9872 said:
100% accurate and nothing to argue, but what was gained by a prison sentence and separation from her family? Lost job, became a martyr, a political pawn and will go on costing the taxpayer.

200 hours community service and we'd never have heard from her again and everyone benefits.

Despite lots of point scoring from both sides, there are no winners in this.

Deeply uncomfortable with people being imprisoned for saying something rather than doing something but there has to be a line

rob9872 · 2025-08-22T11:07:27+0100

PVA said:
It shows that Reform voters have a hard on for Russia and Putin, unsurprising I guess given their dear leader's views.

Does it?
I read it as that they want to spend the money at home first and sort our own landscape out before reaching out to the many wars around the world and spreading our resources like a giant game of Risk.

That said and as a non-Reform voter, again I don't believe the poll is anything other than a narrative to try and divide, I don't believe in the people that actually were polled as I don't with other political polls and finally, again suggesting that 20% (or 28% as G says) are all the same.

Replace the word Reform with something like gay people or Muslims and suggest that they all think or are exactly the same and there would rightly be outrage.

Let's be a bit more more balanced.

PVA · 2025-08-22T11:13:02+0100

rob9872 said:
Does it?
I read it as that they want to spend the money at home first and sort our own landscape out before reaching out to the many wars around the world and spreading our resources like a giant game of Risk.

That said and as a non-Reform voter, again I don't believe the poll is anything other than a narrative to try and divide, I don't believe in the people that actually were polled as I don't with other political polls and finally, again suggesting that 20% (or 28% as G says) are all the same.

Replace the word Reform with something like gay people or Muslims and suggest that they all think or are exactly the same and there would rightly be outrage.

Let's be a bit more more balanced.

Yeah, the bit where 30% of them want to hand over huge swathes of a sovereign country to Russia.

Next highest was Cons at just 8%.

That's a mental figure (and yes, I appreciate it is not all Reform voters).

chiefdave · 2025-08-22T11:26:45+0100

rob9872 said:
Replace the word Reform with something like gay people or Muslims and suggest that they all think or are exactly the same and there would rightly be outrage.

There are polls that do exactly that and there's no outrage. That's the point of polls, to discover if there's difference in different demographics

rob9872 · 2025-08-22T11:29:07+0100

chiefdave said:
There are polls that do exactly that and there's no outrage. That's the point of polls, to discover if there's difference in different demographics

It wasn't the poll (although I do have issues with that too) it was the comment on Shmmeee's original post that I was referring to: "Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic"

Now replace it and tell me the forum wouldn't be in meltdown

Sick Boy · 2025-08-22T11:33:13+0100

shmmeee said:
Every single poll looks like this. Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic.

View attachment 45365
Remember that next time one goes on about people being in bubbles. All the data suggests the only bubble in politics really is reform voters who seem to live in a separate reality to the vast majority of the country but insist everyone thinks like them.

It’s exactly the same complacency and generalisations that led to Brexit.

Grendel · 2025-08-22T12:20:27+0100

PVA said:
Yeah, the bit where 30% of them want to hand over huge swathes of a sovereign country to Russia.

Next highest was Cons at just 8%.

That's a mental figure (and yes, I appreciate it is not all Reform voters).

Yet Labour voters in the same set of polls don’t want to spend money on armed forces if it restricts public services?

How does that work?

PVA · 2025-08-22T12:35:49+0100

Grendel said:
Yet Labour voters in the same set of polls don’t want to spend money on armed forces if it restricts public services?

How does that work?

That's a totally separate question and totally irrelevant to the majority of reform voters wanting to reward Russia's land grab.

Grendel · 2025-08-22T12:48:17+0100

PVA said:
That's a totally separate question and totally irrelevant to the majority of reform voters wanting to reward Russia's land grab.

It really isn’t as if you are going to be part of a peace keeping force (and the estimate would be 10,000 troops) it oddly will increase the spending on defence - something the people who want the force don’t then want to spend the money on.

PVA · 2025-08-22T12:58:50+0100

Grendel said:
It really isn’t as if you are going to be part of a peace keeping force (and the estimate would be 10,000 troops) it oddly will increase the spending on defence - something the people who want the force don’t then want to spend the money on.

You're talking about two totally different questions on two totally different things.

The question I'm referring to talks purely about handing Russia land or not and continuing military assistance as it is now or not (i.e no troops).

Grendel · 2025-08-22T13:34:13+0100

PVA said:
You're talking about two totally different questions on two totally different things.

The question I'm referring to talks purely about handing Russia land or not and continuing military assistance as it is now or not (i.e no troops).

It was on the same list of questions on the poll wasn’t it? Do troops cost more money?

The poll also states a fair chunk of Labour voters would support a European Army doesn’t it?

Ian1779 · 2025-08-22T13:37:55+0100

Sky Blue Pete said:
Deeply uncomfortable with people being imprisoned for saying something rather than doing something but there has to be a line

What was deeply troubling in this whole scenario is that as a registered childminder she will have had to undertake Safeguarding training, she should have done PREVENT training so should be acutely aware of her responsibilities as an adult in charge of minors; that misinformation, and the language around that can be so damaging.
To then produce the vile comments she did was beyond belief.

Sky Blue Pete · 2025-08-22T13:52:22+0100

Ian1779 said:
What was deeply troubling in this whole scenario is that as a registered childminder she will have had to undertake Safeguarding training, she should have done PREVENT training so should be acutely aware of her responsibilities as an adult in charge of minors; that misinformation, and the language around that can be so damaging.
To then produce the vile comments she did was beyond belief.

Don’t disagree

PVA · 2025-08-22T13:55:13+0100

Grendel said:
It was on the same list of questions on the poll wasn’t it? Do troops cost more money?

The poll also states a fair chunk of Labour voters would support a European Army doesn’t it?

What the fuck are you on about

I said an obscene number of Reform voters want to hand over land to Russia. That is there in black and white. I said it's in line with their leaders past history.

European armies, troops, services, all irrelevant to that one question.

Grendel · 2025-08-22T14:19:16+0100

PVA said:
What the fuck are you on about

I said an obscene number of Reform voters want to hand over land to Russia. That is there in black and white. I said it's in line with their leaders past history.

European armies, troops, services, all irrelevant to that one question.

I assume the same people were asked the same questions as the poll was a series of questions?

If troops on the ground compromised our domestic budget would you support it?

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