Do you want to discuss boring politics? (8 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

100% accurate and nothing to argue, but what was gained by a prison sentence and separation from her family? Lost job, became a martyr, a political pawn and will go on costing the taxpayer.

200 hours community service and we'd never have heard from her again and everyone benefits.

Despite lots of point scoring from both sides, there are no winners in this.

The sentence was within sentencing guidelines for her crime. It wasn’t even the most severe sentence that could have been passed down. Maybe her legal team didn’t do such a bad job after all. Maybe the real discussion is about sentencing guidelines?

But playing devils advocate’s for a moment if this had have been a Muslim woman and a mother saying burn down army barracks while solders are inside then a lot of the same people arguing that the punishment is too hard in Lucy Connollys case would now be arguing that it’s too lenient. Probably while still claiming that there’s a two tier justice system without any irony. Just look how a lot of the same peoples respond to airplanes being spray painted as a way of protest, or even the government’s own response for that matter.

As the old adage says, if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime.

 

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[shmmeee]

100% accurate and nothing to argue, but what was gained by a prison sentence and separation from her family? Lost job, became a martyr, a political pawn and will go on costing the taxpayer.

200 hours community service and we'd never have heard from her again and everyone benefits.

Despite lots of point scoring from both sides, there are no winners in this.

We lock people up when they’re involved in ongoing riots mainly to stop the riots. That’s the win. One less person encouraging violence on the streets. One less person doing violence on the streets. Less violence on the streets.

And it works because this summer most of the ring leaders were still in prison so no violence on the streets.

 

[shmmeee]

Every single poll looks like this. Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic.


Remember that next time one goes on about people being in bubbles. All the data suggests the only bubble in politics really is reform voters who seem to live in a separate reality to the vast majority of the country but insist everyone thinks like them.

 

[rob9872]

She's now a ring leader???? FFS this place is so toxic and skewed.

 

[rob9872]

Every single poll looks like this. Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic.

View attachment 45365
Remember that next time one goes on about people being in bubbles. All the data suggests the only bubble in politics really is reform voters who seem to live in a separate reality to the vast majority of the country but insist everyone thinks like them.

Yes they've definitely polled every Reform voter. They wear Tommy underpants sing God save the king at night, have a Farage FC shirt, don't work, IQ under 100 and are all white gammon males.

Do you see how this assumption that such a large number of people are the same would in any other demographic be deemed discriminatory or worse?

 

[rob9872]

The sentence was within sentencing guidelines for her crime. It wasn’t even the most severe sentence that could have been passed down. Maybe her legal team didn’t do such a bad job after all. Maybe the real discussion is about sentencing guidelines?

But playing devils advocate’s for a moment if this had have been a Muslim woman and a mother saying burn down army barracks while solders are inside then a lot of the same people arguing that the punishment is too hard in Lucy Connollys case would now be arguing that it’s too lenient. Probably while still claiming that there’s a two tier justice system without any irony. Just look how a lot of the same peoples respond to airplanes being spray painted as a way of protest, or even the government’s own response for that matter.

As the old adage says, if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime.

Even when someone agrees with you we have to endure a whataboutery rant. You're very unhinged Tony, I'd love to know if you actually believe what you type or if it's all a huge facade.

 

[Grendel]

Every single poll looks like this. Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic.

View attachment 45365
Remember that next time one goes on about people being in bubbles. All the data suggests the only bubble in politics really is reform voters who seem to live in a separate reality to the vast majority of the country but insist everyone thinks like them.

The 20% is actually 28% and that seems a very odd poll given these voters haven't just appeared from Mars and would have voted for other parties at some point unless it is actually the younger voters given Reform seems to appeal to the youth vote.

 

[Nick]

Every single poll looks like this. Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic.

View attachment 45365
Remember that next time one goes on about people being in bubbles. All the data suggests the only bubble in politics really is reform voters who seem to live in a separate reality to the vast majority of the country but insist everyone thinks like them.

Why are you obsessed with these polls?

 

[Grendel]

Why are you obsessed with these polls?

Its a pretty strange poll to quote - whats the point of it?

 

[Grendel]

For context its all here

A round-up of recent polling on Ukraine and defence | YouGov

A look at data from polls in December, January and February

yougov.co.uk

Its pretty ridiculous - Labour and Lib Dems want those troops but then are against meeting spend commitments and yet Reform do - the Lib Dems want us in a European Army - its unhinged bollocks

 

[PVA]

It shows that Reform voters have a hard on for Russia and Putin, unsurprising I guess given their dear leader's views.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

100% accurate and nothing to argue, but what was gained by a prison sentence and separation from her family? Lost job, became a martyr, a political pawn and will go on costing the taxpayer.

200 hours community service and we'd never have heard from her again and everyone benefits.

Despite lots of point scoring from both sides, there are no winners in this.

Deeply uncomfortable with people being imprisoned for saying something rather than doing something but there has to be a line

 

[rob9872]

It shows that Reform voters have a hard on for Russia and Putin, unsurprising I guess given their dear leader's views.

Does it?
I read it as that they want to spend the money at home first and sort our own landscape out before reaching out to the many wars around the world and spreading our resources like a giant game of Risk.

That said and as a non-Reform voter, again I don't believe the poll is anything other than a narrative to try and divide, I don't believe in the people that actually were polled as I don't with other political polls and finally, again suggesting that 20% (or 28% as G says) are all the same.

Replace the word Reform with something like gay people or Muslims and suggest that they all think or are exactly the same and there would rightly be outrage.

Let's be a bit more more balanced.

 

[PVA]

Does it?
I read it as that they want to spend the money at home first and sort our own landscape out before reaching out to the many wars around the world and spreading our resources like a giant game of Risk.

That said and as a non-Reform voter, again I don't believe the poll is anything other than a narrative to try and divide, I don't believe in the people that actually were polled as I don't with other political polls and finally, again suggesting that 20% (or 28% as G says) are all the same.

Replace the word Reform with something like gay people or Muslims and suggest that they all think or are exactly the same and there would rightly be outrage.

Let's be a bit more more balanced.

Yeah, the bit where 30% of them want to hand over huge swathes of a sovereign country to Russia.

Next highest was Cons at just 8%.

That's a mental figure (and yes, I appreciate it is not all Reform voters).

 

[chiefdave]

Replace the word Reform with something like gay people or Muslims and suggest that they all think or are exactly the same and there would rightly be outrage.

There are polls that do exactly that and there's no outrage. That's the point of polls, to discover if there's difference in different demographics

 

[rob9872]

There are polls that do exactly that and there's no outrage. That's the point of polls, to discover if there's difference in different demographics

It wasn't the poll (although I do have issues with that too) it was the comment on Shmmeee's original post that I was referring to: "Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic"

Now replace it and tell me the forum wouldn't be in meltdown

 

[Sick Boy]

Every single poll looks like this. Reform voters are just a very weird 20% of the population on almost every topic.

View attachment 45365
Remember that next time one goes on about people being in bubbles. All the data suggests the only bubble in politics really is reform voters who seem to live in a separate reality to the vast majority of the country but insist everyone thinks like them.

It’s exactly the same complacency and generalisations that led to Brexit.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah, the bit where 30% of them want to hand over huge swathes of a sovereign country to Russia.

Next highest was Cons at just 8%.

That's a mental figure (and yes, I appreciate it is not all Reform voters).

Yet Labour voters in the same set of polls don’t want to spend money on armed forces if it restricts public services?

How does that work?

 

[PVA]

Yet Labour voters in the same set of polls don’t want to spend money on armed forces if it restricts public services?

How does that work?

That's a totally separate question and totally irrelevant to the majority of reform voters wanting to reward Russia's land grab.

 

[Grendel]

That's a totally separate question and totally irrelevant to the majority of reform voters wanting to reward Russia's land grab.

It really isn’t as if you are going to be part of a peace keeping force (and the estimate would be 10,000 troops) it oddly will increase the spending on defence - something the people who want the force don’t then want to spend the money on.

 

[PVA]

It really isn’t as if you are going to be part of a peace keeping force (and the estimate would be 10,000 troops) it oddly will increase the spending on defence - something the people who want the force don’t then want to spend the money on.

You're talking about two totally different questions on two totally different things.

The question I'm referring to talks purely about handing Russia land or not and continuing military assistance as it is now or not (i.e no troops).

 

[Grendel]

You're talking about two totally different questions on two totally different things.

The question I'm referring to talks purely about handing Russia land or not and continuing military assistance as it is now or not (i.e no troops).

It was on the same list of questions on the poll wasn’t it? Do troops cost more money?

The poll also states a fair chunk of Labour voters would support a European Army doesn’t it?

 

[Ian1779]

Deeply uncomfortable with people being imprisoned for saying something rather than doing something but there has to be a line

What was deeply troubling in this whole scenario is that as a registered childminder she will have had to undertake Safeguarding training, she should have done PREVENT training so should be acutely aware of her responsibilities as an adult in charge of minors; that misinformation, and the language around that can be so damaging.
To then produce the vile comments she did was beyond belief.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What was deeply troubling in this whole scenario is that as a registered childminder she will have had to undertake Safeguarding training, she should have done PREVENT training so should be acutely aware of her responsibilities as an adult in charge of minors; that misinformation, and the language around that can be so damaging.
To then produce the vile comments she did was beyond belief.

Don’t disagree

 

[PVA]

It was on the same list of questions on the poll wasn’t it? Do troops cost more money?

The poll also states a fair chunk of Labour voters would support a European Army doesn’t it?

What the fuck are you on about

I said an obscene number of Reform voters want to hand over land to Russia. That is there in black and white. I said it's in line with their leaders past history.

European armies, troops, services, all irrelevant to that one question.

 

[Grendel]

What the fuck are you on about

I said an obscene number of Reform voters want to hand over land to Russia. That is there in black and white. I said it's in line with their leaders past history.

European armies, troops, services, all irrelevant to that one question.

I assume the same people were asked the same questions as the poll was a series of questions?

If troops on the ground compromised our domestic budget would you support it?

 

[PVA]

Fucking hell

 

[wingy]

I assume the same people were asked the same questions as the poll was a series of questions?

If troops on the ground compromised our domestic budget would you support it?

We could just use the gas increase scenario again and Bingo,solved.

 

[shmmeee]

Yes they've definitely polled every Reform voter. They wear Tommy underpants sing God save the king at night, have a Farage FC shirt, don't work, IQ under 100 and are all white gammon males.

Do you see how this assumption that such a large number of people are the same would in any other demographic be deemed discriminatory or worse?

If it was one poll you might have a point (you wouldn’t you’d still be massively wrong about polling and how it works), but almost every poll on these sorts of topics has Reform voters as an outlier to the other parties, including other right wing parties. I think that’s notable but didn’t mean to upset you.

Edit: the difference between voters and any other grouping is voters self select by beliefs and ideals, they aren’t born reform voters or indoctrinated at birth. Generally people’s ideas are fair game where birth characteristics aren’t.

Religion is always the grey area because do people choose their faith?

 

[rob9872]

I think people are scared of the stigma being labelled Reform and might even not say they are Reform leaning when asked, although again I maintain who is being polled? If it's people who have registered and therefore already engaged in politics, if that a fair representation of a cross-section of society? I'd never heard of anyone but BSB said he gets called occasionally, but that's as he registered on a Gov site.

Are they doing it by a mix of social media, street polling and phone?
Are they targeting all demographics as a mix of income, disability, age, race, religion geographical area?
Do they do it at different times of the day or week to ensure as many young, old, working, on the scrounge or elderly?

Without a full cross section of society I don't believe their accuracy.

My guess is this type of poll is online and the Reform voters on there are far more outspoken and opinionated than Joe Bloggs in the street.

 

[chiefdave]

I think people are scared of the stigma being labelled Reform and might even not say they are Reform leaning when asked, although again I maintain who is being polled? If it's people who have registered and therefore already engaged in politics, if that a fair representation of a cross-section of society? I'd never heard of anyone but BSB said he gets called occasionally, but that's as he registered on a Gov site.

Are they doing it by a mix of social media, street polling and phone?
Are they targeting all demographics as a mix of income, disability, age, race, religion geographical area?
Do they do it at different times of the day or week to ensure as many young, old, working, on the scrounge or elderly?

Without a full cross section of society I don't believe their accuracy.

My guess is this type of poll is online and the Reform voters on there are far more outspoken and opinionated than Joe Bloggs in the street.

Methodology | YouGov

YouGov conducts its public opinion surveys online using something called Active Sampling for the overwhelming majority of its commercial work, including all nationally and regionally representative research. The emphasis is always on the quality of the sample, rather than the quantity of...

yougov.co.uk

 

[Nick]

Polls people sign up for so already have an interest (either way).

 

[rob9872]

Polls people sign up for so already have an interest (either way).

Exactly the point I'm making. Tbh they're not the scumbag on the street although in fairness, they probably won't vote either.

 

[Nick]

Exactly the point I'm making. Tbh they're not the scumbag on the street although in fairness, they probably won't vote either.

Don't get why people seem so obsessed with them. It's a tiny fraction of the population.

 

[shmmeee]

I think people are scared of the stigma being labelled Reform and might even not say they are Reform leaning when asked, although again I maintain who is being polled? If it's people who have registered and therefore already engaged in politics, if that a fair representation of a cross-section of society? I'd never heard of anyone but BSB said he gets called occasionally, but that's as he registered on a Gov site.

Are they doing it by a mix of social media, street polling and phone?
Are they targeting all demographics as a mix of income, disability, age, race, religion geographical area?
Do they do it at different times of the day or week to ensure as many young, old, working, on the scrounge or elderly?

Without a full cross section of society I don't believe their accuracy.

My guess is this type of poll is online and the Reform voters on there are far more outspoken and opinionated than Joe Bloggs in the street.

This has never been true. It wasn’t true of shy Tories either. Anecdotally I’ve never known a reform voter not make it very clear. Second only to vegans in that respect.

They have a full cross section of society. That’s literally how polling works. You recruit a representative sample of the population you are studying. They go out via different means (YouGov) including putting ads in papers and have specific groups of people in specific demographics then where they can’t find enough weight them higher to compensate.

Have a read: Q&A: How do opinion polls work? - BBC News