Do you want to discuss boring politics? (24 Viewers)

chiefdave · Sunday at 11:43 AM

Ccfcisparks said:
You assume people get paid for extra hours. I’m paid an annual wage and don’t get paid for extra hours. Your assumption is totally wrong.

This. On a good week I do an equivalent of an extra days work a week without a single penny more in pay. On a bad week it's far more than that.

In terms of a new parent going back to work it's far more than just you're £200 a week better off working. You're no longer spending time, and raising, your newborn. I'm sure many new parents would look at the figures and think that for the sake of £200 they'd rather raise their child themselves.

And as Malc is talking about people of his generation and what they did how common was it for both parents to be working full time within a few months of having a baby? I'd say not that common.

Ccfcisparks · Sunday at 11:49 AM

chiefdave said:
This. On a good week I do an equivalent of an extra days work a week without a single penny more in pay. On a bad week it's far more than that.

In terms of a new parent going back to work it's far more than just you're £200 a week better off working. You're no longer spending time, and raising, your newborn. I'm sure many new parents would look at the figures and think that for the sake of £200 they'd rather raise their child themselves.

And as Malc is talking about people of his generation and what they did how common was it for both parents to be working full time within a few months of having a baby? I'd say not that common.

He seems totally detached from modern society.

The Philosopher · Sunday at 12:15 PM

Sky Blue Pete said:
What’s the 1 million figure?
where’s that from and why are they undocumented

Long-term international migration, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of UK long-term international migration, year ending June 2012 to year ending June 2024. These are official statistics in development.

www.ons.gov.uk

Office Of Nat Stat. The Government. Is that ok?

The Philosopher · Sunday at 12:17 PM

Sky Blue Pete said:
What’s the 1 million figure?
where’s that from and why are they undocumented

And I said “unvetted” which is totally different to “undocumented”. I see how you’ve tried to spin it though. Nice.

Sick Boy · Sunday at 12:32 PM

The Philosopher said:
I’m inclined to say “f-it and leave the lefty fools to stew in what they’ve made here”.

The Tories had been in power for 15 years until recently.

chiefdave · Sunday at 12:33 PM

The Philosopher said:
Long-term international migration, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of UK long-term international migration, year ending June 2012 to year ending June 2024. These are official statistics in development.

www.ons.gov.uk

Office Of Nat Stat. The Government. Is that ok?

How long do you have to be in the county, or out of the county, to be counted on these stats? Does someone coming on a student visa that can't stay past the end of their degree count, someone on a six month contract?

Just wondering as at my Dads care home there's a never ending stream of people who come here to work for 6 months and then leave. Its always 6 months so I'm assuming this is tied to some type of visa or loophole.

SBT · Sunday at 12:40 PM

The Philosopher said:
Anyway, I’ve French residency (hypocrite such as I am) plus Spanish and my OCI from my family being born in India. Pondicherry is beautiful and developing nicely

Immigration for me, but not for thee - always the way.

shmmeee · Sunday at 12:50 PM

The Philosopher said:
Tough words. Unfortunately the ECHR will enforce the repeated appeals delay and defer method of avoiding deportation.

With nearly ONE MILLION largely unvetted, mainly unskilled, mainly men (more likely to commit violent crimes, us men) coming in each year with automatic rights to healthcare, housing, legal representation and spending money this country of ours is pinned into a downward spiral.

Not blaming Labour, us Tories spoke tough but did nothing really so as not to offend potential “moderate” voters.

In the meantime we are losing millionaires to foreign countries (less tax income) at an alarming rate so “tax the rich more” (to essentially pay for being kind to migrants) isn’t gonna fly.

Anyway, I’ve French residency (hypocrite such as I am) plus Spanish and my OCI from my family being born in India. Pondicherry is beautiful and developing nicely. I’m inclined to say “f-it and leave the lefty fools to stew in what they’ve made here”. Feel sorry for their kids who will have huge debt to carry and a ruined country.

UK courts are generally more liberal in their interpretation than the ECHR is my understanding. And we can ignore the ECHR and just pay a fine like the French do.

skybluetony176 · Sunday at 12:59 PM

The Philosopher said:
And I said “unvetted” which is totally different to “undocumented”. I see how you’ve tried to spin it though. Nice.

But they are vetted. From your own link it tells you that they are on visas, visas are vetted. They also don’t get automatic free access to healthcare, they have to have immigration healthcare insurance for access to the NHS, it’s part of the visa application process and is a yearly fee. If they’re on a work visa they’re also paying taxes, if they’re on a student visa they’re paying for their education essentially subsidising education for British students. And as for a few tax dodging millionaires spitting the dummy out, good riddance. It’s the working classes, especially the middle class who contribute the most to the country. Let the snowflake leaches go and revoke their right to automatically return in the process. Make them apply for the right to return.

dadgad · Sunday at 1:52 PM

Sick Boy said:
The Tories had been in power for 15 years until recently.

They’re still in power or, haven’t you noticed?

shmmeee · Sunday at 1:54 PM

dadgad said:
They’re still in power or, haven’t you noticed?

Bloody Tories nationalising rail, improving workers rights, expanding green energy, raising taxes on the wealthy, and pumping tens of billions of extra funding into public services. Always the same.

SBAndy · Sunday at 1:58 PM

chiefdave said:
This. On a good week I do an equivalent of an extra days work a week without a single penny more in pay. On a bad week it's far more than that.

In terms of a new parent going back to work it's far more than just you're £200 a week better off working. You're no longer spending time, and raising, your newborn. I'm sure many new parents would look at the figures and think that for the sake of £200 they'd rather raise their child themselves.

And as Malc is talking about people of his generation and what they did how common was it for both parents to be working full time within a few months of having a baby? I'd say not that common.

For clarity (because he’s referencing me) it’s an extra £200/mth that my partner would bring in for the additional 80 hours’ work. Would be nice to have an extra £200 but that’s a shite deal.

SBT · Sunday at 2:00 PM

The Philosopher said:
And I said “unvetted” which is totally different to “undocumented”. I see how you’ve tried to spin it though. Nice.

The vast majority of non-EU arrivals come in on work and student visas, which do require vetting, of course. Saying they are “mainly” male is also a healthy amount of spin considering the split is 52-48.

Would love to know what language and skills vetting you underwent for your own immigration purposes. I’m sure France and India are crying out for someone with your particular intelligence and expertise?

Ccfcisparks · Sunday at 2:02 PM

SBAndy said:
For clarity (because he’s referencing me) it’s an extra £200/mth that my partner would bring in for the additional 80 hours’ work. Would be nice to have an extra £200 but that’s a shite deal.

In my last few corporate jobs they’ve taken away overtime and TOIL as it would cost them a fortune. It’s a modern day scam.

Marty · Sunday at 2:04 PM

Ccfcisparks said:
In my last few corporate jobs they’ve taken away overtime and TOIL as it would cost them a fortune. It’s a modern day scam.

So why do it then?

Ccfcisparks · Sunday at 2:05 PM

Marty said:
So why do it then?

Because unfortunately if the work doesn’t get done then the blame falls on me and the team I lead.

Marty · Sunday at 2:08 PM

Ccfcisparks said:
Because unfortunately if the work doesn’t get done then the blame falls on me and the team I lead.

Sounds like they're mugging you off.

Ccfcisparks · Sunday at 2:10 PM

Marty said:
Sounds like they're mugging you off.

That’s the way it is in some decent paying jobs mate. Less said the better, but I’m reviewing my options.

Sick Boy · Sunday at 2:11 PM

Marty said:
Sounds like they're mugging you off.

Unfortunately it’s rife.

Ccfcisparks · Sunday at 2:12 PM

Sick Boy said:
Unfortunately it’s rife.

Yep. People like to say workers take the piss with WFH, but I like to just think it’s giving some back to the employers. The overexploitation of what is considered working hours by them has got worse since COVID

Marty · Sunday at 2:14 PM

Ccfcisparks said:
That’s the way it is in some decent paying jobs mate. Less said the better, but I’m reviewing my options.

Get out of there as soon as possible dude. It's not worth the demand on family life, I took about a 20k pay cut, never looked back and couldn't be happier with the decision.

Ccfcisparks · Sunday at 2:16 PM

Marty said:
Get out of there as soon as possible dude. It's not worth the demand on family life, I took about a 20k pay cut, never looked back and couldn't be happier with the decision.

Totally agree, just perusing what’s about at the moment casually, but can imagine come the autumn I’ll be looking more seriously.

Marty · Sunday at 2:18 PM

Ccfcisparks said:
Totally agree, just perusing what’s about at the moment casually, but can imagine come the autumn I’ll be looking more seriously.

I hope you manage to find something. Sooner the better.

Sick Boy · Sunday at 2:20 PM

Ccfcisparks said:
Yep. People like to say workers take the piss with WFH, but I like to just think it’s giving some back to the employers. The overexploitation of what is considered working hours by them has got worse since COVID

It's one of the main reasons why I started working for myself.

Ccfcisparks · Sunday at 2:21 PM

Marty said:
I hope you manage to find something. Sooner the better.

Thanks mate appreciate it

Ccfcisparks · Sunday at 2:22 PM

Sick Boy said:
It's one of the main reasons why I started working for myself.

Yep that would be the goal eventually. It’s shocking how hierarchical some work places can be. The politics behind it just is beyond disbelief.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sunday at 2:48 PM

Ccfcisparks said:
In my last few corporate jobs they’ve taken away overtime and TOIL as it would cost them a fortune. It’s a modern day scam.

If you had a day a year where every CEO took the day off i bet hardly anyone would notice.

If you had one day a year where no-one did anything they were not specifically being paid for (voluntary work, unpaid overtime, even people caring for loved ones) then the country would cease to function and a LOT of people would die.

Sky Blue Pete · Sunday at 4:17 PM

The Philosopher said:
Long-term international migration, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of UK long-term international migration, year ending June 2012 to year ending June 2024. These are official statistics in development.

www.ons.gov.uk

Office Of Nat Stat. The Government. Is that ok?

No that’s what I thought you were referring to

chiefdave · Sunday at 10:42 PM

Ccfcisparks said:
In my last few corporate jobs they’ve taken away overtime and TOIL as it would cost them a fortune. It’s a modern day scam.

Ccfcisparks said:
Because unfortunately if the work doesn’t get done then the blame falls on me and the team I lead.

This all sounds very familiar. I get the idea of what Marty says but for me at least it's easier said than done. I've found it's not a problem at a particular company but in the wider working world. Having moved jobs twice nothing has improved.

Had people say to quit work or move to something less stressful for health reasons but how do you do that on a practical level. I wouldn't be able to pay the mortgage if I took a £5K pay cut let alone a £20K one!

I started work in the mid-90s and it was so different. Was never expected to work over my hours without overtime, or at the very least TOIL, got a pay rise pretty much every year, bonuses whenever the company I was working for at any particular time was doing well, a decent amount of annual leave and random other benefits.

Compare that to now, on a daily basis working extra unpaid hours, annual leave the minimum they can legally get away with, no benefits to the point that being able to park or pay the legally required minimum pension contribution are listed on job ads.

And if you say you want anything better you're branded lazy and not prepared to put in the work that previous generations did.

Evo1883 · 2025-05-12T08:45:08+0100

Fair speech by starmer on immigration .

MalcSB · 2025-05-12T14:42:33+0100

Ccfcisparks said:
You assume people get paid for extra hours. I’m paid an annual wage and don’t get paid for extra hours. Your assumption is totally wrong.

That was a direct response to a post from someone who would get paid for extra hours. My assumption is not totally wrong. Why the fuck don't people actually read (a) what is said and (b) to what it was said. Fucking lazy.

I too was paid an annual wage and basically did not get paid overtime. Covid was the biggest rip off.

On call was a separate issue.

shmmeee said:
Sure but compared to 100 years ago? Compared to Africa?

The biggest families I know are the poorest, 3/4/5 kids each. The richest couples I know most are childless. It’s an excuse. On a global scale fertility goes down as wealth goes up. Even places like China as they develop fertility drops below replenishment. Are you seriously saying that’s because their cost of living got too high?

If you want kids you can afford them whenever. What people want if they’re honest is to not sacrifice their living standard as a childless person. Certainly that’s what people I know who are childless admit, they like the holidays and the weekends away. Not that they’re scared to lose their spare bedroom.

If it was cost of living this graph would basically be reversed:

View attachment 43026

Or does wealth go up as number of children goes down? Saves about 10k per child per annum?

MalcSB · 2025-05-12T14:44:07+0100

Ccfcisparks said:
Totally agree, just perusing what’s about at the moment casually, but can imagine come the autumn I’ll be looking more seriously.

Good luck with that

MalcSB · 2025-05-12T14:44:30+0100

Evo1883 said:
Fair speech by starmer on immigration .

Of course you would think that.

MalcSB · 2025-05-12T14:49:35+0100

Ccfcisparks said:
He seems totally detached from modern society.

If I am, is it any wonder? Women with penises? Men with cervixes?

MalcSB · 2025-05-12T14:52:46+0100

chiefdave said:
This. On a good week I do an equivalent of an extra days work a week without a single penny more in pay. On a bad week it's far more than that.

In terms of a new parent going back to work it's far more than just you're £200 a week better off working. You're no longer spending time, and raising, your newborn. I'm sure many new parents would look at the figures and think that for the sake of £200 they'd rather raise their child themselves.

And as Malc is talking about people of his generation and what they did how common was it for both parents to be working full time within a few months of having a baby? I'd say not that common.

Very uncommon meaning more financial pressure, wouldn't you have thought? Although there were tax allowances which encouraged people to have a family.

If people would rather raise their child themselves, that is an entirely reasonable personal choice for them to make. Don't whinge about it then.

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