shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Have no idea mate , you're a teacher ...EXPLAIN YOURSELF WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO OUR KIDS
I did the best thing I could for our kids education. I left teaching
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
I did the best thing I could for our kids education. I left teaching
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
The chair of the report on BBC news now , a Jewish immigrant .. says it can't be based on poverty or class because children of other ethnic backgrounds are doing better under similar circumstances.
BTW, I'm not pretending to even know about all this , just relaying Information.
My girls do pretty well at school ,and I know many kids that don't and I know their parents ... so I see what I see and think what I think about that.
BTW, I'm not pretending to even know about all this , just relaying Information.
My girls do pretty well at school ,and I know many kids that don't and I know their parents ... so I see what I see and think what I think about that.
Last edited:
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
128.Additional funding for disadvantaged students, including disadvantaged White students, is welcome, but is insufficient and insufficiently targeted and does not always reflect true level of need. This seems to have extended to the Government’s “catch-up” funding, with insufficiently targeted formulas and schemes that are not reaching the children, including disadvantaged White children, who need them most. Just 44% of the children who are using the National Tutoring Programme are eligible for free school meals, making this scheme a prime example of a Government initiative that is not getting to the children who need it most.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
She can try but I’m not sure how quick or possible that is
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
This is what happens when you consistently under fund the system over many years. And when I say the system I mean on the ground in schools and in the classroom.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Why are white kids falling behind though , does the talk extend then onto the parents ? Their home life ...
D
Deleted member 4439
Guest
Whatever one's view on the challenge presented around notions of privilege, it is simply an incontrovertible, long standing fact that as compared with all Asian cultures with similar economic backgrounds, black and white working class boys under achieve at school. This has been the case under govts of all hues, whatever the level of funding. This is not to exclude the possibility or fact that those groups who fail to attain and who are non-white are not additionally impacted by racism. But it is to say what many observers suspect, that culture is a strong variable in explaining school attainments. It's a difficult message to deliver and manage.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
There are so many reasons, poor personal experience of education themselves is often a big one.
D
Deleted member 4439
Guest
One should perhaps look at the positive reasons as why many other ethnic groups do better as to understand the negative reasons why other groups do not. Whilst it may seem stereotypical, from my conservations with mates and colleagues, second and third generation families of immigrants very strongly retain the mindset that education and attainment is the way to break through the glass doors of systemic racism. From another perspective, it's possible that generations of post-war prosperity and privilege has meant that white families have tended to place less value on education, and have been accordingly left behind.
Personally, I was born into a caring and upright white working class family in which doing well in education was almost seen as a prize rather than as a necessity.
Just thoughts.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Problem with this is a) it clearly is based on class. The white boys at Eton are fine and b) immigrants are self selecting and will value education more. It’s clearly a cultural issue but no politician would ever say that.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
All interested in this topic should read ‘Boys Don’t Try?’, written by a pair of white male teachers and packed full of research driven ideas to change the way boys are treated at school. Probably the most important teaching book I’ve read since I started and totally changed how I approach things in a classroom.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Definitely want to have a look at that. Can you give us the cliff notes?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Discussion of the ‘Golem’ vs ‘Pygmalion’ effects working to positively reinforce low or high self confidence
Competition in the classroom being quite damaging for those who ‘lose’ and especially those finishing near the bottom
Recognition that boys would rather not attempt something instead of putting effort in then failing
Appreciate that boys will often have to balance being seen to be academic with being more laddish
The gender of the teacher matters much less than the quality, demand higher expectations and it will be returned
Loads more good stuff in there, highly recommended.
Philosorapter
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Haven’t watched in years but yes. Main thing for me is for people to be allowed to be comfortable being themselves. But the pressure from peers and society is very real
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Peer pressure works both ways though. My daughter is a middle of the road kid academically. That’s why I pushed for her to go to a better school as she’ll go with the centre of gravity.
I do wonder if Blair’s “choice” agenda has lead to concentrations of “good” and “not so good” kids with little chance for people to see good behaviour and attitudes modelling by their peers. Short of a lottery system for school places not sure how you fix it though as it’s a product of the housing market at much as anything els.
I do wonder if Blair’s “choice” agenda has lead to concentrations of “good” and “not so good” kids with little chance for people to see good behaviour and attitudes modelling by their peers. Short of a lottery system for school places not sure how you fix it though as it’s a product of the housing market at much as anything els.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
In those cases you need teachers who understand that kind of background but don’t expect less from the kids. PK is excellent for that, fantastic school
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yeah good teachers solve all. I just wonder how practical it is to expect every teacher to be excellent.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Give them a smaller class to manage for starters
D
Deleted member 4439
Guest
Do they, or is this as much, indeed much more about parents than teachers?
Admittedly speaking from personal experience, and without a gauge at the time to say what a good teacher was, I went to a school with good teachers but who were never going to be able level up what was in front of them instead of the system level down.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I mean a great teacher can have massive impact on the right kid. And a good teacher can achieve above the average. Similarly I’ve seen whole schools in derived areas have a measurable impact short term before staff burnout/lack of funds/trouble cohort breaks them.
Agree completely that systemic effects are far more impactful and IMO more importantly more persistent than anything a single school or teacher can implement.
When picking for my girls I tried to go for the cohort of kids over the school or head as those both change over a five year secondary experience, but the kids don’t. I lost that fight, cos divorce, but all else being equal I’d have used my above average earnings to get them into a school with a generally higher performing cohort. Which is my right as a parent, but as a system leads to ghettoisation.
Education is a fascinating problem space encompassing almost all of politics. Love discussing it (at a distance, with no marking).
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
People underestimate what a huge impact this could have.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Honesty, cut class sizes below twenty and watch our kids fly. Never happen though, you’d basically have to double the schools budget plus a shit ton of capital investment. So government will just tinker round the edges.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
One of the most obvious differences between state and independent education, and in ‘theory’ the easiest to replicate.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
or have grammar schools
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Surely it’s less cost to bulk up school budgets to allow for smaller class sizes than just build different schools?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Would just worsen the issue at hand. Middle class kids get to move close to schools and get tutored through the 11+ and the majority of white British kids end up at schools with no one with any work ethic or academic skill set around their peer group.
Research shows grammars negatively impact the surrounding schools. Unless you’ve got an equivalent for working class kids (and IMO test later in life, say 14) it doesn’t solve anything.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
What about summer schools or after school tutoring paid for by the state targeted at specific groups through the benefits system?
Let’s be blunt, the issue is when the kids go home more than when they’re at school. Offering free wraparound that included homework help and tutoring would help working parents and give disadvantaged kids some of the advantages their richer peers get.
Let’s be blunt, the issue is when the kids go home more than when they’re at school. Offering free wraparound that included homework help and tutoring would help working parents and give disadvantaged kids some of the advantages their richer peers get.
D
Deleted member 4439
Guest
Whilst it may be true that there's a preponderance of second and third gens who product of parents who hold overseas degree (though is that a suspicion or fact?), I'm not quite sure what the point is that's being made, unless it's simply that these families are more academically-minded (rather than being pooled from a higher intelligence group). What do you think he is saying, exactly?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Of course G laughs at what longitudinal research has shown to be the case
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Im not sure how even on the face of it “pull all the smart kids” is going to raise attainment.
He’s saying that immigrants aren’t a random sample of a population. You emigrate because you want to better your life and that translates into expectations and aspirations for your kids. The point about the degrees is that they don’t show up in the stats clearly, same for FSM. Basically the immigrant kids who are doing well have the same kind of parents as the British kids who are doing well.
Not in that thread but I’ve seen evidence that if you subsection “Asian” and “African” you can see clear groups that do well (Chinese, Nigerian for example) where immigrants tend to be more middle class and groups where they don’t (eg Bangladesh, Caribbean). And that that maps to educational attainment.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Restructure of schools, have your primary school run to Y4, middle school Y5-Y8 and high school Y9-Y13. Can then tailor the high schools to a broader range of skills, vocational enterprises, etc. Know very little about the ‘industry’ but would that work?
