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Council's top solicitor quits (2 Viewers)

  • Thread starter SimonGilbert
  • Start date Sep 8, 2015
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SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #106
armybike said:
This has nothing to do with mind reading, do keep up!
Click to expand...

You've already decided what he meant and what his intentions were, truth is you have no idea and are just spouting rubbish.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #107
Grendel said:
I can assure you if someone did this in any major company the best they could hope for is a weeks Diversity training.
Click to expand...

Of course, for names sake if you were a director at Tesco and you were making their name look bad in the press with things like this they wouldn't be too happy.

It was inappropriate, not sexist.

What happens if somebody walks past a receptionist and say they look gorgeous today?

In this case, it isn't as bad as being made out. I am not doubting that sexism goes on in companies and does really bother people and ruin lives, just talking about this case.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #108
They are both lawyers, so lets examine this like lawyers would.

First his statement:

Charlotte, delighted to connect. I appreciate that this is probably horrendously political incorrect, but that is a stunning picture!!!
You definitely win the prize for best Linked in picture I have ever seen.
Click to expand...

One side would argue:
There is nothing to suggest the message is sexist, it clearly is a compliment about the quality of the picture. There are no references to her looks, her clothing, her hair, her smile, her body. Anybody thinking this is anything else than a congratulation on a great quality picture is speculating.

And a few hours ago when I first read it I was firmly on that side. If she found the comment abusive and sexists then she was dreaming (or hoping).

But ...
There's something in his comment that doesn't make sense.
He knows his remark is political incorrect. He says so.
How can a comment on the technical quality of a picture be political incorrect?
On the other hand, a comment on the object in the picture can well be political incorrect.

So my verdict is:
He is clearly commenting on the object - her. Not the technical quality of the picture. It is a sexist remark, and he should apologize.
 
A

armybike

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #109
Nick said:
Again, would it have got the same reaction if it was an attractive to her bloke of the same age with the same interests etc?

Put in what position? Maybe I am misunderstanding, he shouldnt have sent it. It wasnt the right place, time or person but when you keep going on about putting her in positions it is as if he has locked her in a room demanding her to have sex with him or something. Is she going to be emotionally scarred from it?

The way you are wording things is an over reaction from this incident.
Click to expand...

Yes.

The position of receiving such a message. One that he openly admits is politically incorrect. You're the one who has several times taken this to a sexual encounter situation, I'm not sure why. Who knows.

Having an opinion that doesn't match with yours doesn't mean I'm over reacting. It's called a debate.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #110
Grendel said:
I can assure you if someone did this in any major company the best they could hope for is a weeks Diversity training.
Click to expand...

I've heard way worse said between colleagues at work.

And he said it over the internet in a private message
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #111
Godiva said:
They are both lawyers, so lets examine this like lawyers would.

First his statement:



One side would argue:
There is nothing to suggest the message is sexist, it clearly is a compliment about the quality of the picture. There are no references to her looks, her clothing, her hair, her smile, her body. Anybody thinking this is anything else than a congratulation on a great quality picture is speculating.

And a few hours ago when I first read it I was firmly on that side. If she found the comment abusive and sexists then she was dreaming (or hoping).

But ...
There's something in his comment that doesn't make sense.
He knows his remark is political incorrect. He says so.
How can a comment on the technical quality of a picture be political incorrect?
On the other hand, a comment on the object in the picture can well be political incorrect.

So my verdict is:
He is clearly commenting on the object - her. Not the technical quality of the picture. It is a sexist remark, and he should apologize.
Click to expand...

Is telling somebody they are stunning classed as sexist though? I am not doubting he was talking about her, it was stupid.

She makes a point of bringing his age into it in her reply, which didn't really have anything to do with it.
 
A

armybike

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #112
CCFC said:
You've already decided what he meant and what his intentions were, truth is you have no idea and are just spouting rubbish.
Click to expand...

So because I don't agree with you I'm spouting rubbish? #slowhandclap
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #113
armybike said:
Yes.

The position of receiving such a message. One that he openly admits is politically incorrect. You're the one who has several times taken this to a sexual encounter situation, I'm not sure why. Who knows.

Having an opinion that doesn't match with yours doesn't mean I'm over reacting. It's called a debate.
Click to expand...

She received a message basically saying she was stunning. Yes it was stupid, I am pretty sure he now knows it was stupid.

Surely she could have dealt with it a bit better by damaging the silly old man's pride a little bit?

I have taken it to the sexual encounter situation because some of the reactions to it are as if that has happened.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #114
CCFC said:
I've heard way worse said between colleagues at work.

And he said it over the internet in a private message
Click to expand...

Well they are on dodgy ground.

If anyone who works for me did that we'd have a serious conversation and the best they could hope for is the opportunity not to do it again.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #115
Nick said:
She received a message basically saying she was stunning. Yes it was stupid, I am pretty sure he now knows it was stupid.

Surely she could have dealt with it a bit better by damaging the silly old man's pride a little bit?

I have taken it to the sexual encounter situation because some of the reactions to it are as if that has happened.
Click to expand...

Most of the comments on the Cov Tel website article about this are not exactly PC. #OnTheBuses
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #116
armybike said:
So because I don't agree with you I'm spouting rubbish? #slowhandclap
Click to expand...

No because your argument is weak and based on opinion and assumption

It was a misplaced comment, not a comment that would be universally accepted as offensive. It's a massive overreaction and he's being made an example of for the exact purpose of getting debates like this going.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #117
Grendel said:
Well they are on dodgy ground.

If anyone who works for me did that we'd have a serious conversation and the best they could hope for is the opportunity not to do it again.
Click to expand...

Don't think I have ever worked anywhere where I haven't heard things like it from both sexes.

You would walk into some places and they would have Hollyoaks Calendars with men with their tops off or firemen or something.

I think the main thing is how it is dealt with.

If you start sacking people because they talked about somebodys arse for example, then you need to start sacking the receptionist for saying the postman looked nice today in his shorts. You then have to stop people from discussing their personal lives in the work place because if a woman had a date with a really fit bloke, it may offend somebody. Then if some people there who like to kiss on the cheek when they greet people, they need to be warned as that makes people uncomfortable.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #118
Astute said:
I work with female mechanical engineers. We are on the same pay other than the level we are on. We have a high proportion of bosses that are women to how many work at our place. And most major employers are the same.

The main reason that women earn less these days on average is the jobs they do. Things have changed. If you work somewhere that does differently they need reporting.
Click to expand...

What do you mean it's because of the jobs they do? It's has been proven that men and women earn different amounts in the same job or are you disputing this?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #119
Nick said:
Equality has too many rules if only it was just treat everybody the same no matter what sex, color or religion. That's what I was taught, but seems like politically correct the more rules.
Click to expand...

Perhaps he'll mail your LinkedIn page then, if he wants to treat everyone the same...
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #120
Blimey and I used to think that Italy was 20 years behind the UK in teems of equality of the sees and racism; this forum has certainly opened my eyes the last couple of weeks in the reality of the country.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #121
Deleted member 5849 said:
Perhaps he'll mail your LinkedIn page then, if he wants to treat everyone the same...
Click to expand...

He could if I had one, I'd probably be less offended if he tried it on with me.
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #122
covcity4life said:
council scum bites the dust
Click to expand...
So because she works for the council she is scum.
You are a twat.
 
A

armybike

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #123
Nick said:
She received a message basically saying she was stunning. Yes it was stupid, I am pretty sure he now knows it was stupid.

Surely she could have dealt with it a bit better by damaging the silly old man's pride a little bit?

I have taken it to the sexual encounter situation because some of the reactions to it are as if that has happened.
Click to expand...

The inference has been that she 'ran to the press' and has been mentioned within this thread.

She posted a comment on Twitter and like more and more stories within the media these days this was how it was picked up.

He then released a statement via a City law message board, which even more people within that line of work would have seen, compare to her Tweet.

His statement was also clearly a load of old shite, taking into account his 'politically incorrect' comment in the original message.

Yet again she's being blamed for this going public. Seems to me he's equally, if not more, to blame.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #124
armybike said:
The inference has been that she 'ran to the press' and has been mentioned within this thread.

She posted a comment on Twitter and like more and more stories within the media these days this was how it was picked up.

He then released a statement via a City law message board, which even more people within that line of work would have seen, compare to her Tweet.

His statement was also clearly a load of old shite, taking into account his 'politically incorrect' comment in the original message.

Yet again she's being blamed for this going public. Seems to me he's equally, if not more, to blame.
Click to expand...

Didn't she make it public the moment it is tweeted? I'd say for an intelligent woman she knew it was starting a witch hunt. Funny how she wants a public apology and not just an apology?

Some of her retweets could also be classed as mocking him.

Does it mean what he sent was ok? No it was stupid.

Widespread,casual,demeaning behaviour directed towards women is a form of social policing, gender control & a hidden form of social violence
Click to expand...

So this isn't an over-reaction?

I'd say she has got exactly the reaction she wanted when posting it and knew exactly how it would be.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #125
No wonder all dating is moving online as apparently this is the only place where it is acceptable to comment on another persons appearance, people are probably too scared to do it in person in case people take offense.


At the end of the day a man is a man and a woman is a woman regardless of what role they have in society, human nature designed us to be attracted to the opposite sex. Personally I don't think it should be a massive issue to give a man or a woman a compliment on there appearance as long as done respectfully.

Next time I get a hair cut or people comment on my beard I'm going to act massively offended if anyone in work mentions it.
 
A

armybike

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #126
CCFC said:
No because your argument is weak and based on opinion and assumption

It was a misplaced comment, not a comment that would be universally accepted as offensive. It's a massive overreaction and he's being made an example of for the exact purpose of getting debates like this going.
Click to expand...

My argument is based on the facts before us, because it doesn't match up with your opinion doesn't make it weak.

He started the sentence by highlighting what was coming next was politically incorrect. As a clearly educated man he should have pressed delete at this point. He didn't he pressed send, therefore the consequences are all as a result of his actions.

You thinking it's a massive overreaction is your opinion. The fact it's lead to debates such as this, in my opinion, is a good thing.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #127
This is another example:



Her comment:

Really threatening language re acidity in face. And well done for a considered and poignant reply.
Click to expand...

:thinking about:
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #128
CCFC said:
No wonder all dating is moving online as apparently this is the only place where it is acceptable to comment on another persons appearance, people are probably too scared to do it in person in case people take offense.


At the end of the day a man is a man and a woman is a woman regardless of what role they have in society, human nature designed us to be attracted to the opposite sex. Personally I don't think it should be a massive issue to give a man or a woman a compliment on there appearance as long as done respectfully.

Next time I get a hair cut or people comment on my beard I'm going to act massively offended if anyone in work mentions it.
Click to expand...

When was the last time you went up to an attractive woman in the street and told her how beautiful she is? Go on, give it a try. I can guarantee that she will think that you are a sleazy creep.

I am just waiting for someone to post that it is fair game to 'touch a bird's arse if you're pissed and she is wearing a short skirt'.
 
A

armybike

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #129
Nick said:
Didn't she make it public the moment it is tweeted? I'd say for an intelligent woman she knew it was starting a witch hunt. Funny how she wants a public apology and not just an apology?

Some of her retweets could also be classed as mocking him.

Does it mean what he sent was ok? No it was stupid.



So this isn't an over-reaction?

I'd say she has got exactly the reaction she wanted when posting it and knew exactly how it would be.
Click to expand...

So he's a silly old man and she's an intelligent woman? That's a bit politically incorrect isn't it? And sexist! Right, I'm off to Twitter with a screengrab.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #130
Nick said:
This is another example:



Her comment:



:thinking about:
Click to expand...

The point is that it is a business site, not a site for women to have to deal with remarks about their appearance. It is unacceptable and unprofessional.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #131
armybike said:
So he's a silly old man and she's an intelligent woman? That's a bit politically incorrect isn't it? And sexist! Right, I'm off to Twitter with a screengrab.
Click to expand...

It probably is, the difference is I wouldn't say that and then be offended if somebody said something to me.

It seems to be factually correct though, he can be classed as old and he has been silly with this. She is obviously intelligent and is a woman.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #132
Sick Boy said:
The point is that it is a business site, not a site for women to have to deal with remarks about their appearance. It is unacceptable and unprofessional.
Click to expand...

I was disagreeing with the comments about it being threatening where it is over reacting and exaggerating.

The point is that it isn't somebody trying it on on Linked In, it is somebody being threatening about throwing acid in faces when it clearly wasn't meant like that.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #133
Sick Boy said:
When was the last time you went up to an attractive woman in the street and told her how beautiful she is? Go on, give it a try. I can guarantee that she will think that you are a sleazy creep.

I am just waiting for someone to post that it is fair game to 'touch a bird's arse if you're pissed and she is wearing a short skirt'.
Click to expand...

They probably would, some would probably take it as a compliment. I guess it depends on the context and who would be saying it.

I bet it would be a different reaction if it was Brad Pitt saying it compared to John McCririck.

I very much doubt not many of them would be so outraged and offended by it though if it was just a man saying she looked beautiful.

(That is about saying they are beautiful, not feeling their arse. Touching is a completely different situation entirely isn't it?)
 
A

armybike

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #134
Nick said:
It probably is, the difference is I wouldn't say that and then be offended if somebody said something to me.

It seems to be factually correct though, he can be classed as old and he has been silly with this. She is obviously intelligent and is a woman.
Click to expand...

Your portraying him as the downtrodden anti-hero!

He's smarmy and she didn't buy into it.

The "politically incorrect" comment left him wide open. He know what he's doing is wrong. That's the overriding point to me.

Also people making mention of 'this happens in every office', these two don't work together, they're just in the same line of business. So he's made this comment to someone he's got no (or very little) knowledge of.

Yes people do end up in relationship or become fuck buddies in offices, but there are several steps before it gets to this point.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #135
armybike said:
Your portraying him as the downtrodden anti-hero!

He's smarmy and she didn't buy into it.

The "politically incorrect" comment left him wide open. He know what he's doing is wrong. That's the overriding point to me.

Also people making mention of 'this happens in every office', these two don't work together, they're just in the same line of business. So he's made this comment to someone he's got no (or very little) knowledge of.

Yes people do end up in relationship or become fuck buddies in offices, but there are several steps before it gets to this point.
Click to expand...

Nope, not a hero. It seems to be her being portrayed as a girl power hero and he is some sort of sex predator.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #136
Nick said:
Nope, not a hero. It seems to be her being portrayed as a girl power hero and he is some sort of sex predator.
Click to expand...

Why did he make the comment?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #137
Grendel said:
Why did he make the comment?
Click to expand...

I suspect he was trying it on or he thought she would be flattered by it. Either way it was stupid and I can't suddenly see her ( or anybody ) going weak at the knees over it.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #138
Sick Boy said:
When was the last time you went up to an attractive woman in the street and told her how beautiful she is? Go on, give it a try. I can guarantee that she will think that you are a sleazy creep.

I am just waiting for someone to post that it is fair game to 'touch a bird's arse if you're pissed and she is wearing a short skirt'.
Click to expand...


Maybe they would think you are a creep, but is that because they would actually be offended/didn't like what was said or is it because it would now be considered unusual/odd/weird as we are constantly told we can't do these things and they aren't socially acceptable. I probably wouldn't do that myself but think it should be an issue if others want to, as long as they are aren't rude and don't harass them.
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #139
Nick said:
I was disagreeing with the comments about it being threatening where it is over reacting and exaggerating.

The point is that it isn't somebody trying it on on Linked In, it is somebody being threatening about throwing acid in faces when it clearly wasn't meant like that.
Click to expand...

I think you've misread the message, no one is threatening to throw acid in faces.

The man is writing that the woman has shown acidity (sourness) at the compliment he thought he was making.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 9, 2015
  • #140
Rusty Trombone said:
I think you've misread the message, no one is threatening to throw acid in faces.

The man is writing that the woman has shown acidity (sourness) at the compliment he thought he was making.
Click to expand...

I didn't misread it. I knew what it meant.

I posted the comment from the lady involved in this where she said it was threatening.
 
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