Council tossers (4 Viewers)

[rob9872]

Please stop posting your opinions as fact.

I respect your right to an opinion, but you are posting things that you can't possibly know as fact.

Nearly 7 Billion people in this world, you can't possibly know all their intentions!

Tbf there was hardly a queue last time since when our position has deteriorated and other teams have suffered. The evidence suggests that until proved otherwise I'm more inclined to believe the position that the alternatives arevat the very least, limited.

 

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[coundonskyblue]

Illegal? For someone who bleated on earlier about 'absolute proof' that is quite a bold statement.

Institutions that without which our club would have ceased to exist? What are you on? The only reason the club are here is because this hedge fund you so despise saw fit to protect their investment by continuing to pump money into the club to keep it afloat.

The Council and Higgs trust saved the club in 2003, have you forgot that already?

 

[coundonskyblue]

Tbf there was hardly a queue last time since when our position has deteriorated and other teams have suffered. The evidence suggests that until proved otherwise I'm more inclined to believe the position that the alternatives arevat the very least, limited.

But this is all caused by the evil ACL apparently.

Since last time the rent has been reduced by 67%.

If the rent is the cause of it all, we now have a 67% better chance of finding new owners.

 

[rob9872]

That's me done on this. I think I've made my stance clear and this is not healthy for me as I'm becoming more frustrated by each post, so I'm logging off for the night!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Illegal? For someone who bleated on earlier about 'absolute proof' that is quite a bold statement.

Institutions that without which our club would have ceased to exist? What are you on? The only reason the club are here is because this hedge fund you so despise saw fit to protect their investment by continuing to pump money into the club to keep it afloat.

Not completely true is it??

 

[WestEndAgro]

Take their pants down how? By paying them above market rates? At 150K per year net that still represented a good deal to ACL.

Like I said in another thread, Doncaster council gave their local football club their stadium. Ours get insulted by a rent offer of 400K and try to then force the club out of business. And people think this is good?

But they are not paying rent and have no intention of doing so, they do not careless about CCFC and never will, all they want is the Stadium and the surrounding areas potential.
They wanted to buy us on the cheap, and then sell for millions and piss off.
When it became clear that the council were not going to roll over and take one up the WXYZ, they with hold the rent, and make numerous threats, and pull out of negotiations.
Well in my opinion it has backfired.

 

[torchomatic]

Ah, I bet you're upset tonight. You didn't get the liquidation you wanted so desperately. Still, there's always another day, eh?

Just what do you expect ACL to do then?

 

[theferret]

The Council and Higgs trust saved the club in 2003, have you forgot that already?

No they didn't. They saved the stadium project.

Had they not done that, the club would have have simply continued to pay the housing company rent to play at Highfield Road, considerably less than what we paid in subsequent years to ACL.

The developer would have sat on their investment until such time that the club was in a position to buy back Highfield Road or finance a move itself, which may have been post administration but we will never know. They would not have sought to evict the club because the adverse publicity would have been colossal and their housing development blighted by legal challenges and negative national coverage.

There was a lot of scaremongering at the time about there being no alternative, but the truth was there were a lot of vested interests and there was a belief that the new stadium was in the best long term interests of the club, and so the people in charge did a deal with the devil to make it happen.

 

[theferret]

Not completely true is it??

Yes, it is.

 

[skyblue2k]

ACL said it would be a net rent of £150k a year, but that included the rates rebate the club are due. As they have been overcharged since they moved into the gound and this is being paid back at £150k, I am not sure if this rebate is over 1 year or longer.

The £1.3 million that ACL say they are owed does not include the £568k they had out of the CCFC escrow account or i believe over £300k that has been paid to cover match costs. (i am trying to remember figures from what i have read, so might not be exact)

The only people ACL are looking after is themselves, they read the Guardian article and crapped themselves that CCFC were going to liquidate CCFC Limited to wipe out the rental agreement on the RICOH and the debts owed to ACL and leave the Ricoh without a contracted tenant. With CCFC Holdings then being the main company.

To be honest this is the first season when i thought Sisu were actually running the club properly with Waggot and Fisher pulling the strings after the previous muppets that we had to put up with, twice now i think they chose the right manager and brought in a good selection of players. Who at the start of the season thought we would have 2 of the highest scorers in the league in McGoldrick and Clarke. Just a pity that they were not here at the same time.

I hear people on here and twitter saying ACL are the largest debter so can choose who the administrator is, but isn't it ARVO or whatever there called. So at the end of all this we could end up with SISU still pulling the strings under one name or another.

One thing i know next time is i will make sure that i do not vote in next year any councillors involved in destroying my football team. They chose SISU and refused to deal with Manhattan partners who were ran by a cov fan, i have watched CCFC being run into the ground for the last 25 years with some inept managers and directors and for the first time in ten years bought a season ticket this year as was impressed in Mark Robins and what the club were trying to do.

Sisu screwed up a lot in the running of this club, but for the first time i actually thought things were going in the right direction and after Scunthorpe last weekend had already got my tickets for Portsmouth and Walsall.

PUSB

 

[CCFCSteve]

Not had time to read the posts but a sensible move by acl and one I expected and would advise. This is the way I was thinking it would play out although an administration order by an unsecured creditor is very unusual. Sisu (or the associated company who hold a debenture) will have an opportunity to put forward their own administrator, however, the fact is this will protect the club.

It's not what anyone would want to see but brings matters to a head. Sisu will have to prove funding or clubs goes into administration at which point the club/assets will be sold to the highest offeror. Just hope someone's out there but no reason why not, especially with acl indicating a reduced rent is on offer.

Sisu have played hard ball, acl have called their bluff

 

[coundonskyblue]

No they didn't. They saved the stadium project.

Had they not done that, the club would have have simply continued to pay the housing company rent to play at Highfield Road, considerably less than what we paid in subsequent years to ACL.

The developer would have sat on their investment until such time that the club was in a position to buy back Highfield Road or finance a move itself, which may have been post administration but we will never know. They would not have sought to evict the club because the adverse publicity would have been colossal and their housing development blighted by legal challenges and negative national coverage.

There was a lot of scaremongering at the time about there being no alternative, but the truth was there were a lot of vested interests and there was a belief that the new stadium was in the best long term interests of the club, and so the people in charge did a deal with the devil to make it happen.

When the council voted in 2003 on whether to go ahead with the project without CCFC, the clubs future hung in the balance.

Had the council voted against the project, the club would have been hit with a winding up order the very next day.

 

[WestEndAgro]

Not had time to read the posts but a sensible move by acl and one I expected and would advise. This is the way I was thinking it would play out although an administration order by an unsecured creditor is very unusual. Sisu (or the associated company who hold a debenture) will have an opportunity to put forward their own administrator, however, the fact is this will protect the club.

It's not what anyone would want to see but brings matters to a head. Sisu will have to prove funding or clubs goes into administration at which point the club/assets will be sold to the highest offeror. Just hope someone's out there but no reason why not, especially with acl indicating a reduced rent is on offer.

Sisu have played hard ball, acl have called their bluff

Good points, well made,
I find it hard to disagree with any of this, but be ready to get shot down anytime soon.

 

[Grendel]

When the council voted in 2003 on whether to go ahead with the project without CCFC, the clubs future hung in the balance.

Had the council voted against the project, the club would have been hit with a winding up order the very next day.

Ah well they took millions off us to pay for the stadium and have done it anyway.

Proud day eh?

 

[Speedo]

Unfortunately this had to happen.Its lts like taking a dog the vets to be put down.
Sisu ,acl couldnt agree so this is the only way.
Lets pray there is a swift conclusion, take the 10 points....new buyer comes in aka leicester,soton and onwards and upwArds.

 

[coundonskyblue]

Ah well they took millions off us to pay for the stadium and have done it anyway.

Proud day eh?

Maybe you should have been protesting outside the council house calling on the cabinet to pull the plug?

 

[procdoc]

The only people ACL are looking after is themselves, they read the Guardian article and crapped themselves that CCFC were going to liquidate CCFC Limited to wipe out the rental agreement on the RICOH and the debts owed to ACL and leave the Ricoh without a contracted tenant. With CCFC Holdings then being the main company.
PUSB

I'm pretty sure they did a bit more than read the Guardian article

 

[WestEndAgro]

i'm pretty sure they did a bit more than read the guardian article

lol...............

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

If the creditors, of a failing business , are culpable in the decisions of that insolvent business, can they still appoint an administrator, or could other creditors legally challenge this!

I have something at the back of my mind, that Portsmouth's owners tried something similar, but were over-ruled in their choice of administrator.......it may have been for impartiality reasons......just a question, it might mean Arvo cannot appoint their own puppet?

 

[rob9872]

ACL said it would be a net rent of £150k a year, but that included the rates rebate the club are due. As they have been overcharged since they moved into the gound and this is being paid back at £150k, I am not sure if this rebate is over 1 year or longer.

The £1.3 million that ACL say they are owed does not include the £568k they had out of the CCFC escrow account or i believe over £300k that has been paid to cover match costs. (i am trying to remember figures from what i have read, so might not be exact)

The only people ACL are looking after is themselves, they read the Guardian article and crapped themselves that CCFC were going to liquidate CCFC Limited to wipe out the rental agreement on the RICOH and the debts owed to ACL and leave the Ricoh without a contracted tenant. With CCFC Holdings then being the main company.

To be honest this is the first season when i thought Sisu were actually running the club properly with Waggot and Fisher pulling the strings after the previous muppets that we had to put up with, twice now i think they chose the right manager and brought in a good selection of players. Who at the start of the season thought we would have 2 of the highest scorers in the league in McGoldrick and Clarke. Just a pity that they were not here at the same time.

I hear people on here and twitter saying ACL are the largest debter so can choose who the administrator is, but isn't it ARVO or whatever there called. So at the end of all this we could end up with SISU still pulling the strings under one name or another.

One thing i know next time is i will make sure that i do not vote in next year any councillors involved in destroying my football team. They chose SISU and refused to deal with Manhattan partners who were ran by a cov fan, i have watched CCFC being run into the ground for the last 25 years with some inept managers and directors and for the first time in ten years bought a season ticket this year as was impressed in Mark Robins and what the club were trying to do.

Sisu screwed up a lot in the running of this club, but for the first time i actually thought things were going in the right direction and after Sc-unithorpe last weekend had already got my tickets for Portsmouth and Walsall.

PUSB

Post of the day, if I could like on my tablet I would (yes I couldn't bring myself to remain logged off!)

 

[Jack Griffin]

The court will have the final say on who the administrator shall be, ISTR Portmouth owner wanted a particular admin in & that was rejected by the court in favour of the one proposed by HMRC.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/20/portsmouth-administrator-conflict

 

[procdoc]

If the creditors, of a failing business , are culpable in the decisions of that insolvent business, can they still appoint an administrator, or could other creditors legally challenge this!

I have something at the back of my mind, that Portsmouth's owners tried something similar, but were over-ruled in their choice of administrator.......it may have been for impartiality reasons......just a question, it might mean Arvo cannot appoint their own puppet?

If there was a chance that Sisu could appoint their own administartor ACL wouldn't have filed for it, I wouldn't have thought so anyway

 

[italiahorse]

Love it how everybody guesses what is going on without knowing all the information.
Little drops of information from both parties are treated as gospel depending what side you are on.

Simple fact is we have a fantastic facility here. It's all held together by the football stadium.
The football club can exist without the stadium in some form but the stadium complex surely can't exist without the football club.
It's like a pack of cards it all falls down.

For my two penny worth. ACL would make more money with a successful football club in the stadium even paying nominal rent. ACL need to give in. However SISU should not gain from this with all benefits tied into CCFC. SISU need to put there cards on the table in response to this. Do they want the stadium and if they do then again tie it into CCFC.

 

[Wrightdog]

This isn't over, SISU tried to force ACL into admin, now ACL are doing the same to SISU. It's a game of cat and mouse and I can see SISU stumping up the cash. Why pay more cash out for a manager if you knew you were about to be lose ownership of the club? The only thing I can think is that they have told Huddersfield to pay Falkirk directly but I doubt the rules allow that?

 

[skyblue2k]

By the Guardian article i meant we were hearing off ACL / CCFC last week about nothing happening until after MAY 2nd. Then after the article in the Guardian today, the application suddenly submitted. It just seemed like they had an almighty kick up the arse to push this along

 

[theferret]

When the council voted in 2003 on whether to go ahead with the project without CCFC, the clubs future hung in the balance.

Had the council voted against the project, the club would have been hit with a winding up order the very next day.

I don't believe that. Nothing changed that day in terms of the club finances, and we muddled on for the two seasons that followed with no imminent risk of going under at any point during that time. No money changed hands, it was merely a commitment to construct a new venue for the club to play in.

Had the vote gone the other way, it may have led to a loss of confidence I admit, and the likes of Robinson might have pulled the plug, but then like now, we didn't really have external creditors banging on the door.

There was a lot of scaremongering, and I bought into it completely. Looking back you realise that so many people had invested so much in that stadium project they just wanted it to go ahead somehow.

All history anyway.

 

[sky blue john]

Obviously some of you are happy to be made a laughing stock by the owners of our club who lurch from one crisis to another. Annual Embargos.
Sorry thats not for me Im willing to take my chances with new owners and pray for boring stability !!!

 

[Grendel]

Obviously some of you are happy to be made a laughing stock by the owners of our club who lurch from one crisis to another. Annual Embargos.
Sorry thats not for me Im willing to take my chances with new owners and pray for boring stability !!!

Did you say that 5 years ago?

 

[Warwickhunt]

both as bad as each other.
council not doing much to help the club
and sisu playing hard ball

always going to end in tears.

your right the council should not use tax payers money to help the club just like the Tosser Mutton should keep his gob shut

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Obviously some of you are happy to be made a laughing stock by the owners of our club who lurch from one crisis to another. Annual Embargos.
Sorry thats not for me Im willing to take my chances with new owners and pray for boring stability !!!

If there are people out there willing to invest in this mess, then I welcome then. However I wouldn't bank on it, based on Internet rumours bout an American investor

 

[sky blue john]

Love it how everybody guesses what is going on without knowing all the information.
Little drops of information from both parties are treated as gospel depending what side you are on.

Simple fact is we have a fantastic facility here. It's all held together by the football stadium.

For my two penny worth. ACL would make more money with a successful football club in the stadium even paying nominal rent. ACL need to give in. However SISU should not gain from this with all benefits tied into CCFC. SISU need to put there cards on the table in response to this. Do they want the stadium and if they do then again tie it into CCFC.

I agree the only problem with this I can't see Sisu accepting the stadium being tied into CCFC and not being able to borrow against it. Can you with the way they negotiate ?
This is my reasoning for knowing that Sisu will never be able to unite the stadium with the football club. That is why we need Sisu out and someone in who can make this happen !!!

 

[sky blue john]

Did you say that 5 years ago?

Obviously not because I had no experiance of Sisu then and was relieved thinking the club was saved !!!
How wrong was I !!
I have always wondered why they took us on before admin though never made sense to me to this day !!!

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Illegal? For someone who bleated on earlier about 'absolute proof' that is quite a bold statement.

Institutions that without which our club would have ceased to exist? What are you on? The only reason the club are here is because this hedge fund you so despise saw fit to protect their investment by continuing to pump money into the club to keep it afloat.

Ferret,
But in this case the absolute proof exists in the form of a (unoposed!) high court judgement that SISU/CCFC acted illegally in not paying the rent and were instructed to pay the rent by a fixed date that has long since passed and on the basis of which ACL have petitioned the high court to apoint an administrator. So no, I did not make a "bold statement", I stated a simple and evident truth that cannot be denied.

I will not bother commentating on the rest of your response as others have pointed out the truth which you continue to deny, so pointless me even trying to make any further comment.

 

[skyblue2k]

Who's to say the next owners would unite the stadium with CCFC, look at Leicester the owners bought the stadium but it is a seperate company owned by their group of Companies and not directly by lester

Were all just grabbing at straws hoping that ACL have a buyer lined up, but just remember this is Coventry and we have a habit of being continuously shat on.

All i know is i will continue to support my team, home and away for the rest of the season and then see what happens. PUSB

 

[coundonskyblue]

I don't believe that. Nothing changed that day in terms of the club finances, and we muddled on for the two seasons that followed with no imminent risk of going under at any point during that time. No money changed hands, it was merely a commitment to construct a new venue for the club to play in.

Had the vote gone the other way, it may have led to a loss of confidence I admit, and the likes of Robinson might have pulled the plug, but then like now, we didn't really have external creditors banging on the door.

There was a lot of scaremongering, and I bought into it completely. Looking back you realise that so many people had invested so much in that stadium project they just wanted it to go ahead somehow.

All history anyway.

CCFC received £6m from the Higgs Trust