clint van damme
Well-Known Member
that's where we are now, as long as there are other governments as shit as ours they get a pass.
Then it does in every European country
650 doctors and nurses have died. Give your head a wobble mate come on
Anyway do you all belive China and Russia lied about their numbers ? Just our of curiosity
What are the chances the #'s out of Greece have been reported the same way they have been in this country? Little story for you my aunt's dad died about 3 months ago from a heart attack after suffering for about 8 years with a heart condition can you guess what his cause of death was? Feel free to have a guess.
that's where we are now, as long as there are other governments as shit as ours they get a pass.
Remember people quoting this guy like he was definitely ITK and all over it.
Told you he was a crank.
People need to stop getting blinded by personalities and look at the medical profession as a whole. There will always be cranks in any field looking for publicity by saying what people want to hear.
This is just nonsense British exceptionalism. Our numbers are valid, everyone else’s are dodgy. It’s nonsense.
Same as the China stuff. Do you realise the level of data they released? They were slow to admit it but once the cat was out the bag they’ve been very helpful. Meanwhile we’ve been chopping and changing our data collection methods based on what’s polticially expedient.
You can say why weve done the worse but you can’t deny we have. There will be no magic reckoning in the future where we are found to be the best.
Less Britain First and more Britain At Least We Aren’t Last.
Can’t even do nationalism properly.
‘Slow to admit’ is a bit of an understatement shmmeee. The cover up was disgraceful and has led to a worldwide issue that may (nobody will know for sure) have been containable.
We have fucked up various things during the outbreak (as have a number of countries), but China’s behaviour is on a different level
Not sure this contradicts what I said. But again since the “cover up” they’ve been extremely helpful to the scientific community.
You can’t just keep harping back to the spilt milk.
The same reason 5k deaths was removed of the total toll, no idea why they put cause as covid but they have been doing so as I've said its now cause of death is heart failure not heart failure with covid as a factor, I shoukd of mentioned he was in hospital for a good 3/4 weeks before his death.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Someone dying of heart failure could also be linked to Covid though. It affects the ability of the body to absorb oxygen. Less oxygen means the heart beats faster to try and get sufficient oxygen. This puts extra pressure on an already weak heart.
It may well have been his death would've occurred anyway but Covid had an effect on how quickly he died.
For example a lot of people with conditions like cancer and AIDS die for completely different things, pneumonia being very common. However, the weakness to the immune system due to the underlying conditions was a major factor in their death. So pneumonia is the cause of death with cancer as a factor in it.
It's only gone over 50% because of Johnson
Starmer is not going to win back the Red Wall, Scotland or Wales IMO.
It has been on the rise since the referendum for a few reasons.
First things was after Cameron made all these promises and then as soon as they voted no the conversation turned almost instantly onto the effect on England.
Brexit also had an effect, voting Remain yet the UK as a whole voted to leave. Their voice once again overridden by England
Then there's Johnson who despite claiming to be a one-nation Tory has done more to assist the breakup of the union than anyone before him with his Irish border plans and just general impression of England being the 'important' member who's needs much override everyone elses.
Plus his catastrophic handling of corona whereby Sturgeon and the other home nations began to openly step away from UK advice because it was so unclear and didn't seem to follow the science but economic ideology. They've not done a bad job of giving out their own advice to a certain extent and has emboldened the independence voice by showing we can manage ourselves whereas having to listen to those in Westminster is actively detrimental.
So it may have gone over 50% UNDER Johnson, and his mismanagement and attitude has been a big factor in it, but it started gaining further momentum long before Johnson. Had they had another vote post-Brexit while May was in charge I reckon we'd have still seen a yes vote. The only change under Johnson has been it being a probable yes to an almost definite yes with the possibility of a landslide in favour.
I think that’s rightNot sure this contradicts what I said. But again since the “cover up” they’ve been extremely helpful to the scientific community.
You can’t just keep harping back to the spilt milk.
‘Slow to admit’ is a bit of an understatement shmmeee. The cover up was disgraceful and has led to a worldwide issue that may (nobody will know for sure) have been containable.
We have fucked up various things during the outbreak (as have a number of countries), but China’s behaviour is on a different level
Don’t get this new furlough scheme at all. Why would an employer keep two or three people on under this scheme over sacking all but one and keeping them full time?
Maybe not, but don't discount Johnson/Tories losing it thus giving it him back by default.
Why not? The Red Wall and Welsh voters are economically left but socially conservative. Starmer seems to be lining up to be exactly what they want.
Pluse large parts of the Red Wall are paper thin majorities which were liable to turn back to labour seats in a non "brexit" election.
Given that Dan Jarvis got 63% of the vote in 2017 before Starmer's disastrous intervention on Brexit which led to a 40% vote share in 2019, I don't believe the 'red wall' is interested in Starmer or his tory lite actWhy not? The Red Wall and Welsh voters are economically left but socially conservative. Starmer seems to be lining up to be exactly what they want.
Pluse large parts of the Red Wall are paper thin majorities which were liable to turn back to labour seats in a non "brexit" election.
There’s this delusion that’s white working class Brexit voters in Barnsley really wanted Corbyn if it wasn’t for the Brexit policy. They don’t. They’re the same classic British Hang the Pedos and Fund The NHS voters Johnson has been courting.
Yeah, that's the consequence, and it hiked at that point, declined when we took measures to avoid the virus.I think cause of death is a bit of a red herring. It’s clear from the excess deaths that tens of thousands have died prematurely. Unless you’ve got some hidden events that exactly match the spread of coronavirus killing people then the virus is to blame however indirectly.
Why’d they vote for him in 2017?
Can't argue with that, there just wasn't the energy in the last election, it's like he didn't really care anymore.He campaigned well and exceeded expectations while May didn’t. Since then he seemed to give up and campaigned terribly
Spot on, people are busy arguing about the figures put out by the government but really you need to look at the ONS figures. There you can clearly see excess deaths, and in numbers that are substantially higher than the governments covid death figures. If the excess deaths aren't covid what is causing them?I think cause of death is a bit of a red herring. It’s clear from the excess deaths that tens of thousands have died prematurely. Unless you’ve got some hidden events that exactly match the spread of coronavirus killing people then the virus is to blame however indirectly.
Given that Dan Jarvis got 63% of the vote in 2017 before Starmer's disastrous intervention on Brexit which led to a 40% vote share in 2019, I don't believe the 'red wall' is interested in Starmer or his tory lite act
So it was all Starmers fault? Corbyn by 2019 was toxic same thing happened here and the tories nearly won two seats. Voters who are life long Labour voters voting tory because Corbyn was leader.
The anti lockdown idiots think they're all undiagnosed cancer patients / suicidesSpot on, people are busy arguing about the figures put out by the government but really you need to look at the ONS figures. There you can clearly see excess deaths, and in numbers that are substantially higher than the governments covid death figures. If the excess deaths aren't covid what is causing them?
Completely agree. The talk before the announcement was of a scheme modelled on the likes of Germany and France. This scheme seems fundamentally different in that it is in part down to employers to pay for the unworked hours. I've still not seen anybody explain why employers would take up this scheme over paying for the hours actually worked.Cynic in me says that's the point - to minimise cost to the govt yet look like they're doing something to help. No business is going to pay people more than required for the work if they've got spare capacity. You don't pay overtime rates when you've got people underemployed. Esp at a time when business and revenues are likely to be much lower than normal.
Completely agree. The talk before the announcement was of a scheme modelled on the likes of Germany and France. This scheme seems fundamentally different in that it is in part down to employers to pay for the unworked hours. I've still not seen anybody explain why employers would take up this scheme over paying for the hours actually worked.
Although to be fair maybe I'm missing something as my knowledge of those schemes is limited to what a quick google turned up but I can't find any reference to those schemes requiring employers to pay for unworked hours. Also a huge difference in the contribution the state makes. Here we're looking at 22% from the state, looks to me that Germany is 60-67% and France is 70%.
Was also quite surprised to find we seem to be very much the odd one out with these schemes being in place throughout Europe. Much harder to go from a standing start to getting something suitable up and running. Although this is a similar story that has been highlighted by covid across so many areas such as lack of investment in healthcare and education.
Why’d they vote for him in 2017?
The fact that our scheme was more generous to start off with is irrelevant moving forward. Just highlights yet another failure of the government to properly manage the situation.Our scheme was far more generous in the first instance -France isn’t extended for a year its french lay off laws that apply and the German scheme again is an extension of their lay off Programme which has been in place for 10 years - if you were in the French scene you’d be unemployed as you wouldn’t qualify
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