Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (29 Viewers)

chiefdave · Oct 20, 2021

Kieranp96 said:
There numbers are still up, wtf you talking about

Denmark ended restrictions on 10th September, Norway 26th September and Sweden 29th September. Compare their numbers on those dates to 'freedom day', 19th July. They have removed their restrictions when they have things under control to a much greater extent than we did and if and when their hospitalisations and deaths rise significantly they will have to decide what, if any, measures return.

Nobody is saying go back into lockdown, cancel weddings, not go to the pub, not visit family, games back BCD or anything like that. It is just being suggested that we bring in basic mitigations before its too late, these are things that were going to be in place on 'freedom day' until for some reason, yet to be explained afaik, they were scrapped at the last minute.

As Faz said we're literally a week on from a report saying we took action too late and ignored the experts and if we're not careful we'll do the same again.

Covid: Bring back rules amid rising cases, urge NHS chiefs

But the business secretary says it is not time for "Plan B" and he wants to avoid further lockdowns.

www.bbc.co.uk

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 20, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
There won't be though, nothing lasts forever.

For a start, it will inevitably weaken at some stage. Secondly, there will inevitably be increased immunity. Thirdly, improved medicines (antivirals, better understanding meaning more effective drugs coming online) will help things.

Flu is still with us and can kill a 5 figure number of people even with booster jabs given every year. This virus will be the same thanks to you being infectious before symptoms arise. It's hard for me not to feel resentful about the idea of going back to banning people meeting indoors or going to visit friends and family.

The elderly relatives on the Mrs' side have all said they'd rather make the most of their time with children and grandchildren than spend it locked away, and I'm sure they aren't alone feeling like that. If the state fails in getting everybody vaccinated yes go after them for it, but if they achieve that then that is their duty of care fulfilled

COV · Oct 20, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Flu is still with us and can kill a 5 figure number of people even with booster jabs given every year. This virus will be the same thanks to you being infectious before symptoms arise. It's hard for me not to feel resentful about the idea of going back to banning people meeting indoors or going to visit friends and family.

The elderly relatives on the Mrs' side have all said they'd rather make the most of their time with children and grandchildren than spend it locked away, and I'm sure they aren't alone feeling like that. If the state fails in getting everybody vaccinated yes go after them for it, but if they achieve that then that is their duty of care fulfilled

So would you have compulsory vaccinations?

clint van damme · Oct 20, 2021

Kieranp96 said:
Yes but they wont go mandatory again if yiu haven't realised countrys around the world are finally learning to just deal with it, I. E. Scandinavia aswell as many other countrys ,

Scandinavian countries are recording double figure cases per 100k, we're at over 400.

To try and put us in the same boat as them doesn't make sense
. We recorded our highest deaths for 7 months yesterday, do you think Scandanavian countries would allow that to happen without taking some measures?

skybluetony176 · Oct 20, 2021

Kieranp96 said:
Yes but they wont go mandatory again if yiu haven't realised countrys around the world are finally learning to just deal with it, I. E. Scandinavia aswell as many other countrys ,

Scandinavia isn’t suffering from the vaccine hesitancy we do, already had a higher percentage of work from home because it has a work life balance culture and doesn’t have mask wearing hesitancy we have. Scandinavian countries were always better placed to live with it than us simply because of their culture. We need a culture change to live with it, you’ve already said you aren’t going to do that.

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 20, 2021

COV said:
So would you have compulsory vaccinations?

No, I would have it as a more expanded version of what we already do with the flu vaccine. Give priority to the more at risk and allow anyone else to get it in a second round.

Deleted member 9744 · Oct 20, 2021

chiefdave said:
Haven't the Scandinavian countries only removed restrictions recently having got their numbers for hospitalisations and deaths down to a fraction of what ours currently are?

Living with it doesn't mean just letting the numbers continually increase and doing absolutely nothing to mitigate the increase. There seems to be this really odd lockdown or zero mitigations binary choice presented in this country when the reality is the vast majority of countries are keeping basic mitigations in place, vaccine checks and mask wearing, in an attempt to stop numbers rising.

We've got expert after expert talking about how bad its going to get this winter yet we're doing nothing. We've been down this road before and it hasn't ended well.

Looks like we are failing to learn again and won't take action until it is too late.

Nick · Oct 20, 2021

Is this going to be a yearly thing at this time of year?

Evo1883 · Oct 20, 2021

Was checking the deaths and cases last January.. at one point (can't remember if we were locked down ) there was 56000 cases a day and over 1000 deaths a day over the 7 day average.

Atleast we know the vaccines and natural immunity work , almost 10x less deaths at this point and we are pretty much back to normal here atm

Kieranp96 · Oct 20, 2021

chiefdave said:
Denmark ended restrictions on 10th September, Norway 26th September and Sweden 29th September. Compare their numbers on those dates to 'freedom day', 19th July. They have removed their restrictions when they have things under control to a much greater extent than we did and if and when their hospitalisations and deaths rise significantly they will have to decide what, if any, measures return.

View attachment 22315

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Nobody is saying go back into lockdown, cancel weddings, not go to the pub, not visit family, games back BCD or anything like that. It is just being suggested that we bring in basic mitigations before its too late, these are things that were going to be in place on 'freedom day' until for some reason, yet to be explained afaik, they were scrapped at the last minute.

As Faz said we're literally a week on from a report saying we took action too late and ignored the experts and if we're not careful we'll do the same again.

Covid: Bring back rules amid rising cases, urge NHS chiefs

But the business secretary says it is not time for "Plan B" and he wants to avoid further lockdowns.

www.bbc.co.uk

Boring, just man up get vaccinated and get on with your life.

Kieranp96 · Oct 20, 2021

NHS wont be struggling we will just wait and see, if you want to hide in your house you do that

wingy · Oct 20, 2021

Kieranp96 said:
NHS wont be struggling we will just wait and see, if you want to hide in your house you do that

Oh fuck off you absolutely selfish Peovocative callous twat.

I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

PVA · Oct 20, 2021

Kieranp96 said:
NHS wont be struggling we will just wait and see, if you want to hide in your house you do that

Presumably you have access to more information than this guy then!

Covid: Bring back rules amid rising cases, urge NHS chiefs

But the business secretary says it is not time for "Plan B" and he wants to avoid further lockdowns.

www.bbc.com

jimmyhillsfanclub · Oct 20, 2021

Everyone loves a national covid comparison on here don't they?

Yeah....course you do....

Heres one for excess deaths.....arguably this forums accepted most accurate measure......

Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries

In many parts of the world, official death tolls undercount the total number of fatalities

www.economist.com

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 20, 2021

It's safe to say we all have personal tales, and personal issues that have an effect on our perception of this, however...

clint van damme · Oct 20, 2021

Kieranp96 said:
Boring, just man up get vaccinated and get on with your life.

Pathetic.

chiefdave · Oct 20, 2021

PVA said:
Presumably you have access to more information than this guy then!

Covid: Bring back rules amid rising cases, urge NHS chiefs

But the business secretary says it is not time for "Plan B" and he wants to avoid further lockdowns.

www.bbc.com

We've had enough of experts.

England’s top doctor has warned the health service will face an “exceptionally difficult” winter as demand pressures on the NHS add up.

Speaking to the Royal College of GPs annual conference in Liverpool today, England’s chief medical officer Chris Whitty spelled out “the tall order” facing the NHS in the coming months.

He said it was an “impossible dream” to go through winter without any Covid pressures on the NHS and he warned the country was not far off a really serious situation.

Boris Johnson should “go hard and go early” with coronavirus restrictions this winter if there is a surge in cases, the chief scientific adviser has said.

Sir Patrick Vallance said that the UK was at a “pivot” and warned that ministers would need to change course rapidly if cases rose quickly this winter.

Charlotte Summers, professor of intensive care medicine at the University of Cambridge, has told the BBC that the current situation in NHS intensive care units is “incredibly serious”.

One in five intensive care beds in the UK are currently occupied with Covid patients.

As Covid patients tend to stay in hospital for longer, Prof Summers says that “for every Covid patient that comes to join us, we can do fewer cases of elective surgery”.

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 20, 2021

Javid giving 5pm press conference to tell people to get vaccinated or measures will be reintroduced is what it sounds like he will say

CCFCSteve · Oct 20, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Everyone loves a national covid comparison on here don't they?

Yeah....course you do....

Heres one for excess deaths.....arguably this forums accepted most accurate measure......

Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries

In many parts of the world, official death tolls undercount the total number of fatalities

www.economist.com

Not surprised by Spain. There is no way their Covid figures have looked correct to me for a long time

I agree that it might be worth bringing back some of the minor protection/restriction stuff (mask wearing in certain surroundings for example). I’m just not convinced it alone will make much difference though

What’s a far bigger issue is I heard earlier that out of something like 2m of over 80s who are eligible for a booster only 1m have had the jab...and yet 100s (or more) have died in that age group in recent weeks . And that’s not even starting on the anti vaxers/those that chose not to get double jabbed who will undoubtedly be making up a larger proportion of Covid hospital admissions.

I’d like to know actual numbers of Covid hospital admissions and deaths split between vaccinated and unvaccinated if anyone’s come across the latest data

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 20, 2021

chiefdave said:
Nobody is saying go back into lockdown, cancel weddings, not go to the pub, not visit family, games back BCD or anything like that.

CCFCSteve said:
I agree that it might be worth bringing back some of the minor protection/restriction stuff (mask wearing in certain surroundings for example). I’m just not convinced it alone will make much difference though

It might not, but I guess the point is it's low level imposition, to potentially head off larger level imposition. And if it doesn't work, nobody's lost much by trying the low level, have they.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 20, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Everyone loves a national covid comparison on here don't they?

Yeah....course you do....

Heres one for excess deaths.....arguably this forums accepted most accurate measure......

Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries

In many parts of the world, official death tolls undercount the total number of fatalities

www.economist.com

What the hell happened in Portugal earlier this year?!?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Oct 20, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
Not surprised by Spain. There is no way their Covid figures have looked correct to me for a long time

Yep....and I'm not defending the Govt. here cos they're response has been shite, but it certainly puts to bed (so far) the "worse death rate in Europe/world" type statements that many on here are keen on......looking at that table, I count 13 EU nations with a worse excess death rate than UK.

Wyken Sky Blue · Oct 20, 2021

What measures would be re-introdued I wonder. Surely not a full lockdown again? Happy to wear masks in public areas but disappointed if anything more if I'm being honest

If I can get double jabbed why can't others?

chiefdave · Oct 20, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
What’s a far bigger issue is I heard earlier that out of something like 2m of over 80s who are eligible for a booster only 1m have had the jab

Presume that's not people saying they won't get it and more the fact they haven't been offered it yet. My parents come into that category and are just waiting for the call.

Given the vaccination rate in that age group was over 90% would be odd for the booster to drop to 50%, even the annual flu jab rate is way higher than that.

We seem to have shut a lot of the mass vaccination centres and put the responsibility onto GPs at the same time as telling them to clear the backlog of patients that's built up over the last 18 months. Not sure why we didn't got with the 'one in each arm' flu & covid booster plan that was originally proposed, surely that would have been easier than two separate appointments.

clint van damme · Oct 20, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Yep....and I'm not defending the Govt. here cos they're response has been shite, but it certainly puts to bed (so far) the "worse death rate in Europe/world" type statements that many on here are keen on......looking at that table, I count 13 EU nations with a worse excess death rate than UK.

But at the moment we are going quite badly in the wrong direction and they seem to be sitting on their hands, (though maybe Javids press conference later will come up with some potential solutions).

I personally wouldn't advocate for another lockdown but we have to try something.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 20, 2021

clint van damme said:
I personally wouldn't advocate for another lockdown but we have to try something.

I don't think we need another lockdown... yet. The trend currently suggests if we sit on our hands we're more likely to, however.

Maybe that's wrong, but I'd rather not test it if possible.

clint van damme · Oct 20, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
I don't think we need another lockdown... yet. The trend currently suggests if we sit on our hands we're more likely to, however.

Maybe that's wrong, but I'd rather not test it if possible.

Surely this bunch of clowns have learnt that prevaricating only makes things worse inthe long run?

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 20, 2021

clint van damme said:
But at the moment we are going quite badly in the wrong direction and they seem to be sitting on their hands, (though maybe Javids press conference later will come up with some potential solutions).

I personally wouldn't advocate for another lockdown but we have to try something.

Sounds like Covid passports for events, masks indoors and get vaccinated

Evo1883 · Oct 20, 2021

wingy said:
Oh fuck off you absolutely selfish Peovocative callous twat.

I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 20, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
It might not, but I guess the point is it's low level imposition, to potentially head off larger level imposition. And if it doesn't work, nobody's lost much by trying the low level, have they.

I guess though, that everyone has their own idea of 'low level'. If it were simply 'everyone has to mask up' I'm OK with that.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Oct 20, 2021

There is no way a proper lock down will be accepted by the people in this country now.....so the powers that be really need to sort their shit out quickly or this winter will see civil unrest as well as the NHS on its knees

SBT · Oct 20, 2021

skyblue1991 said:
What measures would be re-introdued I wonder. Surely not a full lockdown again? Happy to wear masks in public areas but disappointed if anything more if I'm being honest

If I can get double jabbed why can't others?

The government's already laid out what they'll do if more restrictions have to come in, and they're nothing close to another lockdown. Not sure why everyone's so het up on this

What the Covid-19 winter Plan B is, after daily cases rise to almost 50,000 per day

Under Plan B face masks would once again become compulsory in indoor public spaces and working from home would return

inews.co.uk

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 20, 2021

No ones het up are they

chiefdave · Oct 20, 2021

SBT said:
The government's already laid out what they'll do if more restrictions have to come in, and they're nothing close to another lockdown. Not sure why everyone's so het up on this

Its baffling why people keep talking about lockdowns, not being able to see family & friends, events being cancelled etc. All that's being spoken about is mask wearing in public, vaccine checks for venues & events and working from home where possible. The same things that are being done in countries around the world with out much in the way of problems.

The frustration for me if this is introduced is that it was what was originally planned for 'freedom day', there will always be the question that if we'd stuck to the plan then would it have meant lives being saved?

Grendel · Oct 20, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I guess though, that everyone has their own idea of 'low level'. If it were simply 'everyone has to mask up' I'm OK with that.

It probably also means vaccine passports - something that practically will be difficult to enforce and develops a two tier system

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