Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (29 Viewers)

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Right, but represents less protection overall.
This is a genuine scientific question, if it represents better overall protection then why are other countries not copying what the UK is doing with the 12 week window? I am genuinely curious as to why you think this is the case.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
This is a genuine scientific question, if it represents better overall protection then why are other countries not copying what the UK is doing with the 12 week window? I am genuinely curious as to why you think this is the case.

the WHO have said 12 weeks is fine and an article in the BMJ also supports it. Given the majority of Europe have decided to ignore evidence of its effectiveness it’s safety and pretty much everything else they’ve ignored scientific advice all along the way - it’s also rather ridiculous to compare 33 million vaccines to 9 million and say they are comparable- we’d have done 15 million if we’d have had a shorter time frame of both doses
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
“LOL ITALY IS SHIT LETS ARGUE ABOUT IT”

Not really but for someone to claim the countries are comparable is ludicrous- the Eu have shown their true nationalism and grotesque incompetence in this process and yet still defence shields are on
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Actually quite fancy visiting Italy once this is all simmered.

On current levels of climb they will be fully protected by 2023
 

hill83

Well-Known Member
Not really but for someone to claim the countries are comparable is ludicrous- the Eu have shown their true nationalism and grotesque incompetence in this process and yet still defence shields are on

He explained what he meant. Full vaccinations. Comparable. I’d prefer the route we have taken. But that’s it.

LOL
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Not really but for someone to claim the countries are comparable is ludicrous- the Eu have shown their true nationalism and grotesque incompetence in this process and yet still defence shields are on
Trying to score cheap political points is pretty crass, especially as most countries across Europe are not going to come out of it in a good light.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
This is a genuine scientific question, if it represents better overall protection then why are other countries not copying what the UK is doing with the 12 week window? I am genuinely curious as to why you think this is the case.

A massive misunderstanding of how harm reduction calculus works in a pandemic is my guess. Same as the morons who halted because of blood clots.

The 12 week thing was a gamble, but one that anyone sensible knew was likely to pay off. To not do it now we have the evidence is downright negligent IMO.

The maths is very clear, it’s always better to give twice as many people more than half as much protection as visa versa.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
I'm 49....full of vaccine envy....and getting a bit pissed off with the ever increasing anecdotal evidence that loads of people are now effectively queue jumping by blagging.....or living somewhere posh....or being registered with a family GP practice instead of a community health centre....or suddenly claiming to be unpaid carers cos they did their Ma's shopping a couple times.....
Given your circumstances, frankly they should be classifying you with the people who get it *now*.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Not really but for someone to claim the countries are comparable is ludicrous- the Eu have shown their true nationalism and grotesque incompetence in this process and yet still defence shields are on

Were talking about member state decisions, the EU approved AZ before most places and has been clear it’s safe and effective.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
This is a genuine scientific question, if it represents better overall protection then why are other countries not copying what the UK is doing with the 12 week window? I am genuinely curious as to why you think this is the case.

You would have to ask the other countries. We have given good protection to twice as many people which is a perfectly sound strategy.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
This is a genuine scientific question, if it represents better overall protection then why are other countries not copying what the UK is doing with the 12 week window? I am genuinely curious as to why you think this is the case.


I can't remember if I read or heard it, but a virologist mentioned that the 12 week gap has actually improved efficacy...basically (and apologies for my layman's terminology) the 1st dose prompts the growth/activation of a whole load of antibodies....many of which are weak or non-critical.....if they are boosted after say 3 weeks, some of that boost is wasted on these unnecessary antibodies....whereas after 12 weeks, the weak & non-critical antibodies have decayed or died away....so all the boost power of the 2nd dose is better targeted to the key antibodies.

double bubble...win win.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
I can't remember if I read or heard it, but a virologist mentioned that the 12 week gap has actually improved efficacy...basically (and apologies for my layman's terminology) the 1st dose prompts the growth/activation of a whole load of antibodies....many of which are weak or non-critical.....if they are boosted after say 3 weeks, some of that boost is wasted on these unnecessary antibodies....whereas after 12 weeks, the weak & non-critical antibodies have decayed or died away....so all the boost power of the 2nd dose is better targeted to the key antibodies.

double bubble...win win.

I've heard that about the 12 week gap before.
They also said that some of the vaccines we have where the gap is less would be better extending to 12 weeks but there are practical reasons rather than medical why they're not.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
Needs must with reduced supplies, second jabs have to take priority if it's a choice between the two. When supplies are back up I don't have an issue with waiting further down the queue to keep it going down the ages.
Yes. The younger people my spread it but its those who in theory who've already had 1st jab (older and medically vulnerable) who are more at risk. Better to give a 2nd jab and keep more people alive or out of hospital.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
A massive misunderstanding of how harm reduction calculus works in a pandemic is my guess. Same as the morons who halted because of blood clots.

The 12 week thing was a gamble, but one that anyone sensible knew was likely to pay off. To not do it now we have the evidence is downright negligent IMO.

The maths is very clear, it’s always better to give twice as many people more than half as much protection as visa versa.

Agree mate, from memory we did the 12 week dose gap because (or at least one of the main reasons*) we were in the midst of a massive wave, like mainland Europe is now. From my limited scientific knowledge surely they should be getting those at higher risk at least partially protected asap ?!

* I also think Oxford indicated their vaccine efficacy was likely to improve with the extended gap, although this hadn’t been confirmed by regulators

ps amazing news from Israel. Fingers crossed that replicated elsewhere
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Agree mate, from memory we did the 12 week dose gap because (or at least one of the main reasons*) we were in the midst of a massive wave, like mainland Europe is now. From my limited scientific knowledge surely they should be getting those at higher risk at least partially protected asap ?!

* I also think Oxford indicated their vaccine efficacy was likely to improve with the extended gap, although this hadn’t been confirmed by regulators

ps amazing news from Israel. Fingers crossed that replicated elsewhere
Oxford said it would probably be alright, Pfizer warned against it.

tbh, it's... risky going against the medical tests; in effect you make us the live trial, which is... fraught with danger. Now it looks like it might well come off, which is great, but it's still risky. Was nervous at the time with it and the only reason I wouldn't go on the offensive then, or now for that matter, is because it did seem, at least, to be led by the medical advice (you know, Mr negative Whitty ;))

As for variants, wouldn't it be nice if what we ended up with next was a nice weak, easily transmissable variant. Go on Covid, you know you want to!
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Oxford said it would probably be alright, Pfizer warned against it.

tbh, it's... risky going against the medical tests; in effect you make us the live trial, which is... fraught with danger. Now it looks like it might well come off, which is great, but it's still risky. Was nervous at the time with it and the only reason I wouldn't go on the offensive then, or now for that matter, is because it did seem, at least, to be led by the medical advice (you know, Mr negative Whitty ;))

As for variants, wouldn't it be nice if what we ended up with next was a nice weak, easily transmissable variant. Go on Covid, you know you want to!

Yeah, Pfizer couldnt/wouldn’t confirm but Ox/AZ said longer wait was probably beneficial. I might be wrong but I got the impression all senior PHE inc Whitty bought into decision ie weighing up risk v benefit of approach
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
I'm 49....full of vaccine envy....and getting a bit pissed off with the ever increasing anecdotal evidence that loads of people are now effectively queue jumping by blagging.....or living somewhere posh....or being registered with a family GP practice instead of a community health centre....or suddenly claiming to be unpaid carers cos they did their Ma's shopping a couple times.....
Sorry Jimmy hill I got a text from my forum health centre and booked straight away. I’m 49 too
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
My Old Man just had the phone call for his second jab.

A week early so 11 weeks after his first jab (for those shit at maths :D).
My Dads just had his call as well. His appointment is for next week so under 10 weeks since the first. Mums got her booked in as well, hers was booked in at the same time as the first one so that's a 12 week gap.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
She'd have gone to Stoneleigh, then?
Yep. Dad got the call from his GP and for some reason had to go to a health centre on the other side of the city. Mum is at the same GP but got a letter to sign up for Stoneleigh. I'm only 5 minutes away from them but with a different GP and had mine at the health centre down the road. All a bit random but the system seems to be working.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Yep. Dad got the call from his GP and for some reason had to go to a health centre on the other side of the city. Mum is at the same GP but got a letter to sign up for Stoneleigh. I'm only 5 minutes away from them but with a different GP and had mine at the health centre down the road. All a bit random but the system seems to be working.
Stoneleigh is nationally arranged, GPs locally apparently. My parents got a phone call from their GP offering them a vaccine, the evening they'd just come back from Stoneleigh!

Stoneleigh are also booking second appointments there and then, unlike the GPs it seems.
 

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