Club Statement regarding EFL vote and stadium situation (1 Viewer)

[Gibbo]

The Brum deal levels the negotiating playing field. Otherwise Wasps had the whip hand, now SISU have leverage

 

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[Nick]

You are correct especially in the Bournemouth case, but the sisu job isn’t to pump millions of their money in but find investors who will do just that, invest.
As I see it the policy adapted when Tim Fisher got the ceo reigns was to downsize to the lower divisions where we still are he admitted we couldn’t compete in the championship let alone the prem.
Apart from this ground issue ccfc look to have steadied the ship a bit their next job is to add some investors if possible, I think they could if there’s the will.

What about when the investors want some money back if tens of millions are piled in?

I haven't seen anybody refer to the Accrington owner when they go on about fit and proper. It's all about people throwing billions of pounds about that clubs dont have.

This is the issue when we have fans trusts who rant and rave and start wanking off Blackpool fans without really having a clue about the shit they push and the impact it will have. Give me the Accrington owner any day of the week over the Notts County one who did pump millions in.

 

[GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee]

It's a bit random people are going off about fit and proper but want millions pumping in the club doesn't generate. See Leyton Orient or Bolton.

The people who shout all the time about fit and proper owners seem to expect millions to be pumped in the club doesn't generate. Ironic really.

I saw someone moaning on social media because the average club lost £5.5 million last year & we barely lost anything. They thought our owners were shit because we weren’t losing money. Never felt such disdain for our fans than I have these last couple of weeks with all the shit I keep reading


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[Nick]

I saw someone moaning on social media because the average club lost £5.5 million last year & we barely lost anything. They thought our owners were shit because we weren’t losing money. Never felt such disdain for our fans than I have these last couple of weeks with all the shit I keep reading


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are just sheep.

They demand "ambition" which to them means chucking millions in that the club doesn't have so it can get a mention on Sky Sports News on deadline day. Then if the gamble fails they expect people to walk away and just write all the money off as a friendly gift. That's when it's on to moaning about the EFL about owners of teams like Bolton and Bury that have spent more than they can afford that has got them into the mess in the first place.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Football is broken and rotten from the top down.

The days of philanthropic local business owners chucking money in to power their egos is long gone. Rediculous money, TV, gambling etc has changed all that.

There does seem to be a realisation that things must change and sensible businesses like SISU are running clubs within a budget and to a plan. (I know they made mistakes early doors, but lets just look at the last couple of years.)

I would say that SISU now are far more 'fit and proper' than the majority of club owners.

Sisu took this club away from it’s home city for more than a year, holding it and it’s supporters ransom, simply to try and distress ACL. (See comments from judges in JR cases)

Sisu have had a consistent policy of non communication. They never articulate what their plans are for the football club, the way forward, what they want to achieve. We hear nothing from Sepalla.

When information is given out through the likes of Fisher, much of it is blatantly untrue or can change on a whim.
“We are building our own ground”
“Three sites have been identified”
“We are never returnining to the Ricoh”
“We are still building our own stadium”(on returning to the Ricoh)
“ The Butts Park we want as our new stadium”
“ It has always been our intention to stay at the Ricoh”
“The Ricoh has always been plan A”

They have poisoned relationships with parties in the city and in the county that have adversely affected the club.(John Sharp wanting nothing to do with Sisu, Anderson,when he was CEO, saying how hard it was to engage with local businesses)

They have cut the infrastructure of the club to the bone,

Our training ground can still be sold for housing.(The new site identified by Fisher, but kept secret for “commercial reasons” still hasn’t been revealed and no work has begun)

For a long time we looked like losing our academy site. Only the incompetence of Wasps in lacking funds to buy the Higgs and build their own complex saved our bacon, nothing to do with anything that Sisu had done. Had Wasps plan not failed we may in fact have no academy or have an academy of lesser status possibly operating on school fields. Here too Fisher had said that we had no need of the Higgs Centre, we were building our own academy. (Yet more BS from him).

Yes we have had a promotion and the Checkatrade win. We have also had two relegations, have finished in our lowest league position ever, had the lowest gates for league matches probably since before the war, certainly since the early sixties (that’s not including the year and a bit in Northampton)

Sisu have alienated fans and divided those that remain. They have lost an enormous amount of “the customers” that they had when they came.

Sisu are not good owners. They are crap owners, the worst we have ever had. They have no regard for the football club and treat it’s supporters with contempt. Yes, they have tried to run the club as a break even business, a fair enough aim. However, they made little attempt to build the business up, to grow it so that the break even figure is higher. The real reason for the break even policy is so that the club is not costing them money, while they hold on to it and pursue their endless, futile legal action. Nothing to do with what is best for the club.
Sisu have been a total disaster for this club and no amount of rewriting history will ever change that.

 

[Nick]

Sisu took this club away from it’s home city for more than a year, holding it and it’s supporters ransom, simply to try and distress ACL. (See comments from judges in JR cases)

Sisu have had a consistent policy of non communication. They never articulate what their plans are for the football club, the way forward, what they want to achieve. We hear nothing from Sepalla.

When information is given out through the likes of Fisher, much of it is blatantly untrue or can change on a whim.
“We are building our own ground”
“Three sites have been identified”
“We are never returnining to the Ricoh”
“We are still building our own stadium”(on returning to the Ricoh)
“ The Butts Park we want as our new stadium”
“ It has always been our intention to stay at the Ricoh”
“The Ricoh has always been plan A”

They have poisoned relationships with parties in the city and in the county that have adversely affected the club.(John Sharp wanting nothing to do with Sisu, Anderson,when he was CEO, saying how hard it was to engage with local businesses)

They have cut the infrastructure of the club to the bone,

Our training ground can still be sold for housing.(The new site identified by Fisher, but kept secret for “commercial reasons” still hasn’t been identified and no work has begun)

For a long time we looked like losing our academy site. Only the incompetence of Wasps in lacking funds to buy the Higgs and build their own complex saved our bacon, nothing to do with anything that Sisu had done. Had Wasps plan not failed we may in fact have no academy or have an academy of lesser status possibly operating on school fields. Here too Fisher had said that we had no need of the Higgs Centre, we were building our own academy. (Yet more BS from him).

Yes we have had a promotion and the Checkatrade win. We have also had two relegations, have finished in our lowest league position ever, had the lowest gates for league matches probably since before the war, certainly since the early sixties (that’s not including the year and a bit in Northampton)

Sisu have alienated fans and divided those that remain. They have lost an enormous amount of “the customers” that they had when they came.

Sisu are not good owners. They are crap owners, the worst we have ever had. They have no regard for the football club and treat it’s supporters with contempt. Yes, they have tried to run the club as a break even business, a fair enough aim. However, they made little attempt to build the business up, to grow it so that the break even figure is higher. The real reason for the break even policy is so that the club is not costing them money, while they hold on to it and pursue their endless, futile legal action.
Sisu have been a total disaster for this club and no amount of rewriting history will ever change that.

The thing with that is how you only put over one side, for example you are pushing the "Jon Sharp never wanted to work with SISU" stuff but why did he put in a proposal for a ground share and then seem to change his mind after that reaction?

Of course SISU are wankers but you fail to notice that there are still too many other parties who can make life difficult and try their best to do that. You even make a point of ACL being distressed but you don't mention about other parties trying to distress CCFC.

You mention about SISU dividing fans but you don't mention expensive PR campaigns run by other parties to do exactly that, either?

Once people take a step back and have a look at everything even pre SISU, it isn't to make SISU look good or say they are innocent (far from it). It's that there are plenty of factors in the mess we are in, it's usually the most vocal who don't seem to realise when they are banging on about protests on the pitch though. The same as that SISU are having to put money in every year as well to keep us ticking over. (not throwing millions for success, just ticking over).

It's funny because you have the Wasps bloke encouraging protests as well.

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

So what do you want to be changed?

The EFL can't force Wasps to allow CCFC to play there. The same as they can't force any other landlord to do a deal, if Oxford's landlord wants to knock the stadium down and build houses what happens to Oxford then, kick them out of the league?

You ask what do i want to be changed.

Owners of any football club who go into administration should not be allowed to choose the administrator.

Sisu are allowed to choose Mr Appleton, no rules broken, and then Sisu reacquired the football club from Mr Appleton.

why should the owners of a failed football club be allowed to continue to run the club .

The whole process stinks.

Duducting points is not going to hurt hedge funds, it only going hurt the football club and the fans.

 

[Grendel]

You ask what do i want to be changed.

Owners of any football club who go into administration should not be allowed to choose the administrator.

Sisu are allowed to choose Mr Appleton, no rules broken, and then Sisu reacquired the football club from Mr Appleton.

why should the owners of a failed football club be allowed to continue to run the club .

The whole process stinks.

Duducting points is not going to hurt hedge funds, it only going hurt the football club and the fans.

Christ

 

[Nick]

You ask what do i want to be changed.

Owners of any football club who go into administration should not be allowed to choose the administrator.

Sisu are allowed to choose Mr Appleton, no rules broken, and then Sisu reacquired the football club from Mr Appleton.

why should the owners of a failed football club be allowed to continue to run the club .

The whole process stinks.

Duducting points is not going to hurt hedge funds, it only going hurt the football club and the fans.

They could choose the administrator because that's how business law works. It would need to be business law that needs to change so it isn't allowed.

Let's hope this Haskell Pt2 works then?

 

[ceetee]

Sisu took this club away from it’s home city for more than a year, holding it and it’s supporters ransom, simply to try and distress ACL. (See comments from judges in JR cases)

Sisu have had a consistent policy of non communication. They never articulate what their plans are for the football club, the way forward, what they want to achieve. We hear nothing from Sepalla.

When information is given out through the likes of Fisher, much of it is blatantly untrue or can change on a whim.
“We are building our own ground”
“Three sites have been identified”
“We are never returnining to the Ricoh”
“We are still building our own stadium”(on returning to the Ricoh)
“ The Butts Park we want as our new stadium”
“ It has always been our intention to stay at the Ricoh”
“The Ricoh has always been plan A”

They have poisoned relationships with parties in the city and in the county that have adversely affected the club.(John Sharp wanting nothing to do with Sisu, Anderson,when he was CEO, saying how hard it was to engage with local businesses)

They have cut the infrastructure of the club to the bone,

Our training ground can still be sold for housing.(The new site identified by Fisher, but kept secret for “commercial reasons” still hasn’t been identified and no work has begun)

For a long time we looked like losing our academy site. Only the incompetence of Wasps in lacking funds to buy the Higgs and build their own complex saved our bacon, nothing to do with anything that Sisu had done. Had Wasps plan not failed we may in fact have no academy or have an academy of lesser status possibly operating on school fields. Here too Fisher had said that we had no need of the Higgs Centre, we were building our own academy. (Yet more BS from him).

Yes we have had a promotion and the Checkatrade win. We have also had two relegations, have finished in our lowest league position ever, had the lowest gates for league matches probably since before the war, certainly since the early sixties (that’s not including the year and a bit in Northampton)

Sisu have alienated fans and divided those that remain. They have lost an enormous amount of “the customers” that they had when they came.

Sisu are not good owners. They are crap owners, the worst we have ever had. They have no regard for the football club and treat it’s supporters with contempt. Yes, they have tried to run the club as a break even business, a fair enough aim. However, they made little attempt to build the business up, to grow it so that the break even figure is higher. The real reason for the break even policy is so that the club is not costing them money, while they hold on to it and pursue their endless, futile legal action.
Sisu have been a total disaster for this club and no amount of rewriting history will ever change that.

What you say is true but that does not mean that all of the other parties such as Wasps and CCC are benevolent and should be supported at the expense of CCFC, which seems to be the mindset of a lot of people

 

[Nick]

What you say is true but that does not mean that all of the other parties such as Wasps and CCC are benevolent and should be supported at the expense of CCFC, which seems to be the mindset of a lot of people

Exactly.

SISU are far from innocent or good people but there's no point pretending that some of those things haven't been impacted by other parties playing their games. It's when somebody like Wasps put something out saying "it was SISU" and people believe it hook, line and sinker every time. (Regardless of if it damages the club).

Of course SISU are guilty of things, of course them being "faceless" with shit communication hasn't helped them in the slightest when it comes to PR companies doing a job to turn people against them and CCFC on behalf of a stadium management company. You can tell it works now because people are more bothered that ACL were "distressed" than their own football club is being now with Wasps playing games.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

What you say is true but that does not mean that all of the other parties such as Wasps and CCC are benevolent and should be supported at the expense of CCFC, which seems to be the mindset of a lot of people

Nothing to do with forgetting what the other parties have done. Wasps should not be here in my opinion and should have agreed a deal for the club to be at the Ricoh by now. CCC have much to answer for in the way that they have treated the City’s football club.
My post above was in answer to a previous poster putting the case for Sisu to be considered fit and proper owners
as they run the club as break even concern.
There seems to be a lot of forgetfulness with regard to Sisu and the damage they have done and I think it does no harm to bring their record to light. That is not forgetting or diminishing how others have harmed this club.

 

[Nick]

Nothing to do with forgetting what the other parties have done. Wasps should not be here in my opinion and should have agreed a deal for the club to be at the Ricoh by now. CCC have much to answer for in the way that they have treated the City’s football club.
My post above was in answer to a previous poster putting the case for Sisu to be considered fit and proper owners
as they run the club as break even concern.
There seems to be a lot of forgetfulness with regard to Sisu and the damage they have done and I think it does no harm to bring their record to light. That is not forgetting or diminishing how others have harmed this club.

Yes but none of what you listed breaks any fit and proper rules does it? Even now we can move to Birmingham and the EFL can't do a thing about it because they can't force Wasps to allow us to play there. They can't force the Oxford ground owner to let them play there either, if the landlord wants Oxford to pay silly money a year in rent which means the player budget suffers and they get relegated then people will just be blaming the owners.

It isn't in the rules to have an academy for example, yeah it would be shit if it closed down but they could choose to sack it all off tomorrow and it's not something the EFL have a say over.

The only real one has been groundshares and even then the EFL can't do anything of note other than allow it so that fixtures are fulfilled. The time the EFL should be doing things is when owners try to separate grounds from football clubs, even then it's business so as long as it isn't breaking business law they can do what they want.

By asking how the fit and proper owner test is broken or how it should be changed isn't saying they are amazing owners, you still haven't suggested what realistic changes would be made which would make much difference to our situation?

You should follow Andy Holt from Accrington to see his rants, he is usually bang on and I am jealous that he owns Accrington and not us.

 

[Evo1883]

So to clarify, we are still in negotiations to secure a ricoh deal? Or is that no longer the case

 

[Nick]

So to clarify, we are still in negotiations to secure a ricoh deal? Or is that no longer the case

According to that, we are still trying to negotiate with Ricoh as the aim but have something ready and in place if it doesn't happen.

Our focus and desire is to agree a deal at the Ricoh Arena - this is everyone's preferred option, and the right option for Coventry City. While the backup of a groundshare exists to ensure the future of the Football Club continues, another groundshare is not something anyone wants to happen.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Re: timetable deadlines - the fixtures for the EFL are published on 20th June. They would have to know by then (i.e. three weeks or so) where we will be playing, END OF!!

They need to know before then to be fair. The clubs are given the fixtures before the release so they can check and make and requests to move any that need moving. I suspect now we know the divisional make up after Sunderland choked yesterday (snigger), the clubs in L1 might have them in the next 10 days.

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[Grendel]

So to clarify, we are still in negotiations to secure a ricoh deal? Or is that no longer the case

I doubt it

 

[Seaside-Skyblue]

Its really difficult to badge an owner fit and proper because as far as I am aware there is no defined and explicit measurable criteria that exists. I.e must spend this much on transfers, must talk to fans more etc. must have this much money, must do this and that. And things like they don't communicate much and alienate fans is so subjective. Setting defined and measurable rules up now could probably banish a significant number of clubs full stop as there are clubs at complete opposite spectrums in terms of size, revenue, circumstance. If you were head of Football league where would you even start on definining fit and proper owners?

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[Nick]

Its really difficult to badge an owner fit and proper because as far as I am aware there is no defined and explicit measurable criteria that exists. I.e must spend this much on transfers, must talk to fans more etc. must have this much money, must do this and that. And things like they don't communicate much and alienate fans is so subjective. Setting defined and measurable rules up now could probably banish a significant number of clubs full stop as there are clubs at complete opposite spectrums in terms of size, revenue, circumstance. If you were head of Football league where would you even start on definining fit and proper owners?

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Exactly.

Is it measured on success, money invested, interaction?

For example are Charlton's owners now good that they have got promoted? Are Bury's owners good that they got promoted? Was Notts County's owner good even though he spunked about £30m into the club and still got relegated? Were Leyton Orient owners good when they were paying Darius Henderson about 9 grand a week before the money tap turned off?

As said, I see Accrington's owner as a great owner. However he fully accepts Accrington will never go above League 1 so people will disagree because he has no "ambition" and doesn't want to throw loads of money in.

 

[Paxman II]

Would you go quietly if your house was sold off for pennies on the dollar to someone else behind your back?
Oh yes SISU had plenty of opportunity before WASP, but they stupidly allowed that boat to sale making a gargantuan mistake in the process.

But we are where we are now. There is evidence SISU have learned from past mistakes and certainly from a footballing perspective have backed Robins competitively and we have seen promotion and a cup. The building blocks continue and with a bit more edge we may even of had promotion chances this last season. Next season looks similar in that we should be able to kick on and gain another promotion. It's the best route for SISU to realise an eventual exit.

But off the pitch SISU have every right to pursue legal action, and as such CCFC would be the beneficiary.
From that point of view they are keeping their eye on the ball and just may yet win the prize.

The EC and perhaps further court hearings could prove decisive and very bad news for the council and WASP.

The histrionics of SISU have been and always will be contemptible but for where we are now they are doing what needs must. A little calculated again, but I truly feel WASP would be the foolish ones to not have CCFC in place for the next season or two at the Ricoh.

Whatever the findings come out of the EC complaint, both sides would be better able to deal with it if they had some assemblance of co-operation in place, such as CCFC playing at the Ricoh during the interim.
As for the council? I suspect their corridors are once again full of people in denial while knowing it could end very badly for them.

 

[vow]

same place as the birmingham fans do, least of our problems

Are you kidding me?
It's right up there with the Pin Badge debacle!!!

 

[Nick]

Would you go quietly if your house was sold off for pennies on the dollar to someone else behind your back?
Oh yes SISU had plenty of opportunity before WASP, but they stupidly allowed that boat to sale making a gargantuan mistake in the process.

But we are where we are now. There is evidence SISU have learned from past mistakes and certainly from a footballing perspective have backed Robins competitively and we have seen promotion and a cup. The building blocks continue and with a bit more edge we may even of had promotion chances this last season. Next season looks similar in that we should be able to kick on and gain another promotion. It's the best route for SISU to realise an eventual exit.

But off the pitch SISU have every right to pursue legal action, and as such CCFC would be the beneficiary.
From that point of view they are keeping their eye on the ball and just may yet win the prize.

The EC and perhaps further court hearings could prove decisive and very bad news for the council and WASP.

The histrionics of SISU have been and always will be contemptible but for where we are now they are doing what needs must. A little calculated again, but I truly feel WASP would be the foolish ones to not have CCFC in place for the next season or two at the Ricoh.

Whatever the findings come out of the EC complaint, both sides would be better able to deal with it if they had some assemblance of co-operation in place, such as CCFC playing at the Ricoh during the interim.
As for the council? I suspect their corridors are once again full of people in denial while knowing it could end very badly for them.

Let's not go too far the other way, we have no idea if CCFC would be the beneficiary of anything. If a judge had turned round and said "any legal action result must only benefit CCFC and CCFC only" then I'd be right behind it. We don't know that do we?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Its really difficult to badge an owner fit and proper because as far as I am aware there is no defined and explicit measurable criteria that exists. I.e must spend this much on transfers, must talk to fans more etc. must have this much money, must do this and that. And things like they don't communicate much and alienate fans is so subjective. Setting defined and measurable rules up now could probably banish a significant number of clubs full stop as there are clubs at complete opposite spectrums in terms of size, revenue, circumstance. If you were head of Football league where would you even start on definining fit and proper owners?

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I wasn’t making the case for them to be classified as unfit owners in the eyes of the EFL. I was just making the case that Sisu are not and have not been good owners of this club. We had a thread started the other day. “Has the Penny Dropped?” intimating, “have people come to see that really Sisu aren’t that bad”. Lots of posts, such as the one I replied to that are making the case for Sisu to be looked at in a new light.

Nothing takes away from what they have done to this club. Nothing to do with the EFL and their fit and proper persons test. By their actions and policies Sisu have damaged CCFC. No rewriting or ignoring history can take that away. This is something that needs to be recognised and not watered down or forgotten.

 

[usskyblue]

The same SISU OUT focused suspects, probably alternating between here and the Facebook page they conquered, peddling their agenda...

 

[Paxman II]

Let's not go too far the other way, we have no idea if CCFC would be the beneficiary of anything. If a judge had turned round and said "any legal action result must only benefit CCFC and CCFC only" then I'd be right behind it. We don't know that do we?

IF they win through the European process then the outcome would be catastrophic for WASP and the council.
Do WASP have a considerable cash pot? I'd suggest the Ricoh may well end up on a 'To Let' sign once more.

 

[ccfcway]

They could choose the administrator because that's how business law works. It would need to be business law that needs to change so it isn't allowed.

Exactly. Sisu have done nothing wrong legallly. Ccfc is their toy and they can play with it when and where they want. We are just pawns in the game

 

[Nick]

IF they win through the European process then the outcome would be catastrophic for WASP and the council.
Do WASP have a considerable cash pot? I'd suggest the Ricoh may well end up on a 'To Let' sign once more.

Yeah it might well be, that doesn't necessarily mean amazing for ccfc though does it?

 

[ceetee]

Exactly - if the lease reverts back to the council, CCFC will not be the council's first choice of tenant!!

 

[chiefdave]

Exactly - if the lease reverts back to the council, CCFC will not be the council's first choice of tenant!!

Surely if that happened there would be an open and transparent sale process this time around.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Exactly - if the lease reverts back to the council, CCFC will not be the council's first choice of tenant!!

At which point the council should open public rental talks and get the club back here full time

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Surely if that happened there would be an open and transparent sale process this time around.

Or they turn it into a warehouse, or a base for their waste management team.

 

[bawtryneal]

I doubt it

I agree. I've been told there have been no discussions for 10 days or more.
If they will start again, who knows.
Does anybody have an opinion on when "deadline day" will be In terms of which ground we play at next season, at which point we sign a binding contract
I would guess it is end of first week in June due to fixture decision requirements. Anybody have a thought ?

 

[Nick]

I agree. I've been told there have been no discussions for 10 days or more.
If they will start again, who knows.
Does anybody have an opinion on when "deadline day" will be In terms of which ground we play at next season, at which point we sign a binding contract
I would guess it is end of first week in June due to fixture decision requirements. Anybody have a thought ?

I reckon about then, isn't it around then players contracts run out and the business really start? (Or is that 1st July?)

 

[letsallsingtogether]

The thing with that is how you only put over one side, for example you are pushing the "Jon Sharp never wanted to work with SISU" stuff but why did he put in a proposal for a ground share and then seem to change his mind after that reaction?

Of course SISU are wankers but you fail to notice that there are still too many other parties who can make life difficult and try their best to do that. You even make a point of ACL being distressed but you don't mention about other parties trying to distress CCFC.

You mention about SISU dividing fans but you don't mention expensive PR campaigns run by other parties to do exactly that, either?

Once people take a step back and have a look at everything even pre SISU, it isn't to make SISU look good or say they are innocent (far from it). It's that there are plenty of factors in the mess we are in, it's usually the most vocal who don't seem to realise when they are banging on about protests on the pitch though. The same as that SISU are having to put money in every year as well to keep us ticking over. (not throwing millions for success, just ticking over).

It's funny because you have the Wasps bloke encouraging protests as well.

Nick tbf it is upto Sisu to unite fans it is in their interest surely?
Never had a problem with us not throwing money around, l do have a problem with players not giving their all to the best of their ability though.
We buy players every year and every time we are told what a good signing by posters, tbh I have never heard of most of them before hand and most disappear sharpish )

 

[bawtryneal]

I reckon about then, isn't it around then players contracts run out and the business really start? (Or is that 1st July?)

Players contracts typically run 1st July to 30th June
The fixture list will be the biggest issue due to policing requirements and ensuring we are at St Andrews when Birmingham are away and clashes with Villa