Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant is your favourite word, isn't it? No I don't call that democracy, unless you are suddenly a fan of Joe Elliott and co? Fans were bullied into giving up their shares.
Breaking news: Acl call off rent talks (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter AFCCOVENTRY
- Start date
Irrelevant is your favourite word, isn't it? No I don't call that democracy, unless you are suddenly a fan of Joe Elliott and co? Fans were bullied into giving up their shares.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
To use my best mates favourite word, irrelevant-we wouldn't be in this situation with other owners.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Well, it was "other owners" who started the ball rolling in the first place.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Non league accepts Thatcherism. It was the democratic will of the people.
coundonskyblue
New Member
How is that Democracy? I don't remember shareholders holding a vote on whether the club should be sold to Sisu.
Geoffrey Robinson realised the game was up and sold to whoever he could. Preferably someone who enjoyed the use of confidentiallity agreements as much as the last board too ensure the secrets of the last 20 years at the club are kept hushed up.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's absolute democracy. Every single share holder willingly bought into the concept. I am aware of no dissections are you?
Compare that to a council. They are democratically elected yet 70% of the voting population are so disenfranchised they do not even vote.
If everyone agreed that is pure democracy.
Not True old Chap ,there were plenty who did'nt wish to donate their shares ,coercian was the tool.of the day ,much like now.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Why wouldn't we? SISU's predecessors were in fact worse for CCFC, SISU didn't sell HR nor did they go through with building a stadium they couldn't afford NOR did they agree to such a stupid rent agreement.
Also, if Hoffman's takeover had been successful, Keys had even said that if the club couldn't get a better agreement the club would have to find somewhere else to play, coming from Keys, that's saying A LOT. People would support them right the way through the process, you know it, I know it.
Funny how no one has challenged my point on Alki David, when he looked at the finances of CCFC and thought 'fuck this' and wished the new owners good look - prophetic? No, he just knew the previous regime fucked up massively financially, in hindsight (best power anyone could have), the writing was on the wall as soon as SISU came in.
Why is it irrelevant? Or you just don't want to admit that you would support other owners if they pursued similar tactics, so this is clearly an anti-SISU vendetta you have.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Yep sisu no worse or better than everyone since the 60's
Except that they are now.:facepalm:
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Anything Democratically elected is preferable to a secretive hedge fund-we don't even know who owns us, or what Joy looks like! You can vote a government out of power at least. SISU have zero accountability. Your faux Hegelian attempt to change the direction of the conversation fails again!
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
So everything done by SISU since is acceptable and therefore justified? If my father was a murderer and I in turn murdered, would it be entirely his fault?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
ACL is a private corporation, not a democratically elected body, it is backed by council, but ACL has zero accountability also.
SISU are held accountable by the fans, the fans scrutinize the ownership at every opportunity and many moan about lack of investment, but don't take FFP into account and there's no doubt the rent situation hinders the club here, yet those same people hypocritically support ACL in this saga.
The council also lacks legitimacy when dealing with this saga; A) because they're doing through a quango B) they were not elected on anything to do with CCFC and C) did the majority of people vote in these elections? 54% if that? Hardly legitimising.
Every CCFC fan, including me, on this forum would love a takeover, but who out there would want to invest in CCFC? What serious takeover bid has been tabled? None, I like I imagine most fans on here are emotionally bound to CCFC, so I support them, even if we have dodgey owners, but they are what we have, and they have continued decades of mismanagement. They did save our club as well.
:claping hands::claping hands:You're too smart for them, They're probably still trying to work this out.
Sub
Well-Known Member
in a democracy you are allowed to peaceful protest if you are not happy with things unless its at the ricoh and then they get thier thugs to assult people who do not agree with the way things are being run, in the so called heart of the community football club.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
So the will of the government stands and any form of protest breaking any of their laws in your eyes is unnacceptable is it?
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Will you be on the counsel protest march or is this all hot air ?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Why you compiling a list as to who is going so you can run and tell your friends in the town hall?
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
No just presume your the type of person thats all hot air no action just like TF !!!
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
NLHWC....
If you type in Joy Seppala her picture will come up,(Blonde and fairly attractive) but I couldn't get it to upload on here m8. You might have a bit more luck if you try it.
If you type in Joy Seppala her picture will come up,(Blonde and fairly attractive) but I couldn't get it to upload on here m8. You might have a bit more luck if you try it.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Well I feel a bit cut up.
NLHWC....
If you type in Joy Seppala her picture will come up,(Blonde and fairly attractive) but I couldn't get it to upload on here m8. You might have a bit more luck if you try it.
That's the finnish porn star of the same name, no relation. Allegedly
ointlaugh:sky blue stoz
New Member
the reason is the concil have bought out sissu's debt,watch this space
grego_gee
New Member
What would you expect "some compromise" from ccfc to look like?
They started arguing for a rent comparable to "an average for league one", 170k was mentioned, they seem to have indicated willingess to deal at more than twice that. That is compromise!
I agree that ACL compromising on reducing by more than 800k is more but it just demonstrates how excessive the rent was in the first place!
And how much compomise is there in still demanding the arrears at the full rate over the period when it has been in dispute?
Even ACL accept that it was 200% above what was fair!
imp:imp:
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
There is no doubt the present situation is unsustainable for the club, but what bugs me about the whole situation is that the position of CCFC looks unsustainable even with the deal they've been offered because they are still racking up milllions of debt each year, the best they can save from the rent is around £1M and they're talking about additional revenues as a means of increasing the budget.
Isn't it just a plane crash waiting to happen, how do SISU extract themselves without losing lots of money, what is the angle?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
look at it this way
say the losses budgetted for by CCFC were £2m on sales of £6m (player budget 3.9m)...... personally I think it is more at over 3m loss
saving £800k on rent - thats what we are told
Rates saving ........... estimate £150k we are told
additional profit from ACL £100k - again we were told this by ACL
Additional turnover from F&B's £1m - doesnt actually add to profit because it is cross invoiced but allows bigger player budget of £650K, TF says CCFC will spend that allowance.
Losses .................................... (2,000,000)
Rent saving............................... 800,000
Rates saving ............................ 150,000
ACL profit allowance................ 100,000
additional spend on players budget(650,000)
Loss ......................................... (1,600,000)
loss is funded by SISU or not paying other creditors (ie greater and greater debt) or by selling players (who have we got that would fund those losses by being sold each year?)
It simply does not work ............... whatever ACL compromise, it does not solve or come close to solving CCFC's financial mess.............. so the real problem is where?
say the losses budgetted for by CCFC were £2m on sales of £6m (player budget 3.9m)...... personally I think it is more at over 3m loss
saving £800k on rent - thats what we are told
Rates saving ........... estimate £150k we are told
additional profit from ACL £100k - again we were told this by ACL
Additional turnover from F&B's £1m - doesnt actually add to profit because it is cross invoiced but allows bigger player budget of £650K, TF says CCFC will spend that allowance.
Losses .................................... (2,000,000)
Rent saving............................... 800,000
Rates saving ............................ 150,000
ACL profit allowance................ 100,000
additional spend on players budget(650,000)
Loss ......................................... (1,600,000)
loss is funded by SISU or not paying other creditors (ie greater and greater debt) or by selling players (who have we got that would fund those losses by being sold each year?)
It simply does not work ............... whatever ACL compromise, it does not solve or come close to solving CCFC's financial mess.............. so the real problem is where?
This argument has been going on for about 1 year,round and round,but without knowing all the figures it is virtually impossible to give a truly objective judgement.
But ACL and those who side with them continually talk the talk,over and over again,but they all seem reluctant to walk the walk.What is actually now stopping ACL from issuing a winding up order,why the delay??,this has dragged on for 12 months.
SISU then either has to settle or put the club into administation and leave.Most fans seem to want either a settlement and/or SISU to leave, this would give them what they supposedly crave.Or is it many fans realise/fear that if that happened both Coventry City FC and ACL would be finished,one immediately and the other over a period of time.
But ACL and those who side with them continually talk the talk,over and over again,but they all seem reluctant to walk the walk.What is actually now stopping ACL from issuing a winding up order,why the delay??,this has dragged on for 12 months.
SISU then either has to settle or put the club into administation and leave.Most fans seem to want either a settlement and/or SISU to leave, this would give them what they supposedly crave.Or is it many fans realise/fear that if that happened both Coventry City FC and ACL would be finished,one immediately and the other over a period of time.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
There isn't one Jack - that's what annoys me with regards the simplistic views of so many.
When SISU came here, free shares were meant to be enough. They weren't. Then it was the exorbitant rent. None of these folk who are now running amok, wracked by anger at this unfair mill-stone around our necks even saw fit to mention it; from the moment we took tenancy in 2005 through to SISU taking over in 2007. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Now it's everything. Except that suddenly it isn't. The club now needs additional income too. Nasty people itroduced FFP and nobody knew about it; and suddenly that's everything. Forget that it was agreed in 2009 and it's parameters set out in 2010 and it's pathway to introduction clearly set out at the time. Additional revenues are now everything.
As the shares were. As the rent was.
And people think that catering, at the published £100K will make all the difference. Stop buying burgers they say. Park your car in Meridian and walk to starve ACL of that £200K match-day parking; as that can save CCFC.
Except that we lost over £6.7m in the last set of audited accounts in one year alone. Year on year losses into the £40-odd million since early 2008 according to Fisher.
There is only one constant. SISU can't run a football club. I am not saying previous regimes were any better; as they weren't. But SISU have shown me noting but serial ineptitude.
At least Alki David had the acumen to see the club's finances for what they were, labelled it a basket-case and turned on his heels. Whereas SISU, with Ranson having been spurned by Southampton, Derby, Villa and Manchester City dived in where angels feared to tread.
It can't be right and never will be right; no matter how many helping-hands SISU are given; as they started building on sand, and everything therthereafter is flawed as a function of being so
mattylad
Member
No it does not solve the problem, that is done by getting back where the money is in first the Championship and later the Premiership and that is done only by having a decent team on the pitch which is done by being able to compete financially which is done by having enough revenue to get the players in we need.
We really are now on a precipice and the club will either prosper or die based on revenue streams open to them.
Should SISU look seriously at a smaller ground with less over heads and more revenue streams? They know it means another large chunk of debt hung around the clubs neck and so staying at the Ricoh remains the best option but it may become a necessity rather than a nicety.
skyblueman
New Member
To my mind it's obvious what SISU are doing - they are just hell-bent on getting to break-even or a small profit - as long as they get to a point where they do not have to put any money in the immediate pressure on them goes away - they can just sit on the club and spin and spin to all their investors that it's along term investment that will come good eventually. That's about it - the great difficulty I imagine for SISU is having to get extra funds in to balance the losses - this must be horrendous for them to justify without making it completely obvious they have totally screwed it up. Get o break-even and you don't have to face the Armageddon of writing off all that money which belongs to someone else - just sit back and hope for the best - maybe you'll get lucky and unearth some gems from the acadamy and cash in on them - maybe you might even get promoted one day - don't think they care about that it's all about short-term face saving and avoiding having to make a decision on a proper exit
Blatantly obviously OSB the problem lies in the wage bill...............which should perhaps be nearer £2 million for this league and our turnover.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
To go to a smaller ground will require the current lease to be broken ............ unlikely to be agreement of that so the only way would seem to be wind company up and form ccfcnew co................. that would mean probably a drop of 2 divisions (conference football) ground share until a new ground built which could be 3 years or more. In that 3 years CCFC rent a pitch but derive none of the income streams like naming rights, advertising, some of the matchday incomes..... our budget becomes smaller, our ability to employ players restricted ........ likelyhood is we could still be in conference when new stadium ready, smaller capacity, naming rights not that valuable, all match day incomes but smaller in value, ticket prices lower, match day packages lower in value, advertising income lower, few TV rights, etc etc. It is not a great solution even if it becomes a necessity imo.
The potential of income streams are more at the Ricoh which gives the potential of better investment in the team, but it is no good unless other things are addressed
The income streams are just part of it as are the costs, getting the right people in, success on the pitch, fan support, owner investment not just funding of losses etc. Think there are even tougher times ahead in the near future
grego_gee
New Member
Excuse me, your Oldskyblueness!
But how many times have others "gone under", without taking A 2 div drop? Portsmouth?
I think CCFC are relatively angels in this respect!
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