Breaking news: Acl call off rent talks (4 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Kid]

Really what did Joy do? Break in at the date of night and steal them? The scoundrel!!

Very funny Grendel...NOT!
How would you react to being told to......Give up your shares to us, or we will pull out of taking over the club?...This is like putting a gun to someone's head. Try reading the CET forum some times, to this day quite a few are still saying this about giving up their shares.
So, step back and think about what you've said m8!

 

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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So does something that is "widely discussed" on SBT make it true then?

Do you know what Torchy, dear chap: it's strange that so many people who didn't see fit to question this value when it was held up as evidence of how much SISU are investing in the club are are ambitious for success; suddenly discard it as flawed quesswork when it's latterly used against them...

 

[dadgad]

Very funny Grendel...NOT!
How would you react to being told to......Give up your shares to us, or we will pull out of taking over the club?...This is like putting a gun to someone's head. Try reading the CET forum some times, to this day quite a few are still saying this about giving up their shares.
So, step back and think about what you've said m8!

This sorry affair was a clear indication of the people Sisu are.
Vile tactics that we've grown used to and people (admittedly quite dense people) think they "saved" us.
Haha!

 

[lordsummerisle]

Do you know what Torchy, dear chap: it's strange that so many people who didn't see fit to question this value when it was held up as evidence of how much SISU are investing in the club are are ambitious for success; suddenly discard it as flawed quesswork when it's latterly used against them...

The opposite also applies.

Hardly helping your case when teh whole crux of your argument is that somebody said it on SBT is it?

However you do have previous for making statements of guesswork "facts" as you did endless times with the "bottom three wage bill in the Championship" over and over again.

You seem to think that if you say something over and over again it will then become true.

Lots of people tried it by repeating that Thorn was a good manager.


It doesn't work.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The opposite also applies.

Hardly helping your case when teh whole crux of your argument is that somebody said it on SBT is it?

However you do have previous for making statements of guesswork "facts" as you did endless times with the "bottom three wage bill in the Championship" over and over again.

You seem to think that if you say something over and over again it will then become true.

Lots of people tried it by repeating that Thorn was a good manager.


It doesn't work.

I posted the figures up here with regards the wage structure last year. I note you didn't question it at the time. Only some months later when no one can be arsed to trawl back.

Like when Grendel was harping on about young players; so I looked at every squad in the division, and posted the stats relating to us using more players, in more positions, more often than anyone else in the league. From what I recall, we were significantly different to the next highest; Derby - by some 51%.

After doing so, I remember Grenduffy - who had been disproved again, as he asserted Derby were on par with us - asked I did the maths again for under 22's, instead of under 21's, as I had done.

The stats are out there. Try looking back; however, I think Fisher's apologetic 'we made mistakes' statement tells you the story without bothering

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I posted the figures up here with regards the wage structure last year. I note you didn't question it at the time. Only some months later when no one can be arsed to trawl back.

Like when Grendel was harping on about young players; so I looked at every squad in the division, and posted the stats relating to us using more players, in more positions, more often than anyone else in the league. From what I recall, we were significantly different to the next highest; Derby - by some 51%.

After doing so, I remember Grenduffy - who had been disproved again, as he asserted Derby were on par with us - asked I did the maths again for under 22's, instead of under 21's, as I had done.

The stats are out there. Try looking back; however, I think Fisher's apologetic 'we made mistakes' statement tells you the story without bothering

Everyone makes mistakes, shall we judge everyone who makes a mistake?

 

[lordsummerisle]

I posted the figures up here with regards the wage structure last year. I note you didn't question it at the time. Only some months later when no one can be arsed to trawl back.

Like when Grendel was harping on about young players; so I looked at every squad in the division, and posted the stats relating to us using more players, in more positions, more often than anyone else in the league. From what I recall, we were significantly different to the next highest; Derby - by some 51%.

After doing so, I remember Grenduffy - who had been disproved again, as he asserted Derby were on par with us - asked I did the maths again for under 22's, instead of under 21's, as I had done.

The stats are out there. Try looking back; however, I think Fisher's apologetic 'we made mistakes' statement tells you the story without bothering

Don't recall you posting the wage structure of every team in the Championship last year, if you did have access to the accurate figures for every team and not just supposition then wouldn't be able to argue with it.

Doubt that you had those figures though, or ever have had.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Don't recall you posting the wage structure of every team in the Championship last year, if you did have access to the accurate figures for every team and not just supposition then wouldn't be able to argue with it.

Doubt that you had those figures though, or ever have had.

Against my better judgement, I'm hunting now. Some interesting threads so far.

There's this one, which seems to go against everything Grenduffy's been accusing me of every day for the last year (especialy at post 13):

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/13595-New-Manager-How?highlight=wage+bill

I'm getting warmer with this one:

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/15047-How-big-does-a-squad-need-to-be?highlight=wage+bill

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Everyone makes mistakes, shall we judge everyone who makes a mistake?

In business; damn right you do. He's paid a high salary not to make such mistakes; or if he does so, to fall on his sword. Accept the role and remuneration - and accept the responsibility that goes therewith - everyone knows that's the deal

 

[lordsummerisle]

Against my better judgement, I'm hunting now. Some interesting threads so far.

There's this one, which seems to go against everything Grenduffy's been accusing me of every day for the last year (especialy at post 13):

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/13595-New-Manager-How?highlight=wage+bill

I'm getting warmer with this one:

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/15047-How-big-does-a-squad-need-to-be?highlight=wage+bill

Here is a quote from you November 2011 when asked where you have the view that we have one of the bottom three budgets in the Championship:

"As for the wage structure, it's a comment I heard Hoffman say in interview."

Conclusive proof if anybody needs it that your assertion is true, I have to bow out to this devastating revelation.

 

[Grendel]

Against my better judgement, I'm hunting now. Some interesting threads so far.

There's this one, which seems to go against everything Grenduffy's been accusing me of every day for the last year (especialy at post 13):

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/13595-New-Manager-How?highlight=wage+bill

I'm getting warmer with this one:

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/15047-How-big-does-a-squad-need-to-be?highlight=wage+bill

You must have sent the wrong link - every clubs wages are t on there. Can you send the correct one?

Or has Sky Blue Taylor told you all players wages and not just mcgoldricks?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

You must have sent the wrong link - every clubs wages are t on there. Can you send the correct one?

Or has Sky Blue Taylor told you all players wages and not just mcgoldricks?

I didn't say I'd found it, did I? I said I was 'hunting'. Do you have to try and be this inane, or a natural trait?

 

[Grendel]

I didn't say I'd found it, did I? I said I was 'hunting'. Do you have to try and be this inane, or a natural trait?

I'm not inane you are just backtracking as you made a statement that you can't back up.

 

[Grendel]

Good to see Eric black being interviewed for the managers job

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I'm not inane you are just backtracking as you made a statement that you can't back up.

It's not a case of can't back up. Type in 'wage bill' or 'wages' into the search and you'll get 30+ pages of results, each with about 20 threads on, many of which have posts into the hundreds. And when I do find it, you'll just refute, discredit or ignore in any case

 

[Jack Griffin]

Whatever the club offered McGoldrick wasn't as good as Ipswich offered him. He is still on loan there & may or may not get a deal at the end of the season, considering he only scored 1 goal in 8 games there, I doubt he will get much of a deal.

 

[Grendel]

Very funny Grendel...NOT!
How would you react to being told to......Give up your shares to us, or we will pull out of taking over the club?...This is like putting a gun to someone's head. Try reading the CET forum some times, to this day quite a few are still saying this about giving up their shares.
So, step back and think about what you've said m8!

Did she wear a mask and produce a blunderbuss?

"STAND AND DELIVER - YOUR SHARES OR YOUR LIFE!"

:claping hands::claping hands:

 

[Grendel]

It's not a case of can't back up. Type in 'wage bill' or 'wages' into the search and you'll get 30+ pages of results, each with about 20 threads on, many of which have posts into the hundreds. And when I do find it, you'll just refute, discredit or ignore in any case

Try typing in "made up nonsense" at least you'll only have 1.916 posts to search through,

 

[lordsummerisle]

Did she wear a mask and produce a blunderbuss?

"STAND AND DELIVER - YOUR SHARES OR YOUR LIFE!"

:claping hands::claping hands:

It was Teflon Joe who went round knocking on all the doors like some sort of Payday Loan collector for the shares wasn't it?

 

[grego_gee]

Not sure I can answer that the way you want me to Grendel...... just dont know the other rental agreements and to be honest we have very little real detail on ours

The current lease was signed in different times and was in need of review certainly. It is neither the reason why we are floundering nor its reduction the saviour of our Club. Is the latest offer on the rent reasonable, in my opinion yes. Have SISU used it as leverage on other things yes. There have been mistakes on both sides of the dispute ...... SISU took a calculated gamble in how they disputed the rent ...... the outcome could well be reduced rent but I think they lost much more...... ACL could have acted quicker. Both sides will come out of this with different structures and cost base...... the key is can they work together......... personally I just do not see it, there is no trust, and there is only the owners of one side capable of leaving

I made a post yesterday as to how I thought it could have gone ........... think it would have given a much more positive outcome. AS to who might want us yes the rent and matchday income is definitely useful but the key is how much to settle the SISU debts...... I would guess their expectation far out weighs any reasonable offer

So the Lease worst in the League - no idea........... but it did need reviewing and changing......... but so too did ACL and CCFC

I always apreciate your contribution osb and you have my thanks, but I really think in answering this you overlooked that no revision to the rent has yet been agreed. Legally it is still 1.2m a year with no matchday revenues. I think you could be confident in saying there was none worse than that in div 1, (and the universe and beyond!), couldn't you?

imp:

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I'm not inane you are just backtracking as you made a statement that you can't back up.

Like the famous statement that you made about "Undisclosed Transfer Fees" being "ESTIMATED FACTS"!:facepalm:

 

[Grendel]

It was Teflon Joe who went round knocking on all the doors like some sort of Payday Loan collector for the shares wasn't it?

Yeah Dick Turpin with a comb over and a ticking clock......

 

[Noggin]

Try typing in "made up nonsense" at least you'll only have 1.916 posts to search through,

or 7602...

 

[grego_gee]

grego gee when they took over they wrote off £35m and took reponsibility for the net liabilities left. 2008 accounts showed a net amount of 8.6m net liabilities taken on Of which I believe 6m was written off in the 2011 accounts. Since then their "investment" or loans have risen to over £45m according to TF. The debt is sitting in SBS&L accounts

net liabilities are assets less liabilities ..... so in 2008 SISU took on 7.875m in assets and 16.475m in liabilities = 8.6m

My recollection was that about the time of acquiring the club the debts of about 45m were said to be written off. I remember being disappointed at a later date to see them still appear in the accounts as debt to xxx,(later passed to Argos in the Caymen Isles.) Reflecting on this I thought why would you "write it off" when by keeping it in the books in the background you might be able to persuade the tax man that you weren't making a profit thereby reducing tax.

Is it not the same £45m?

imp:

 

[torchomatic]

Hold on, what about you? You said that Turner's fee was £750K. That was totally untrue, it was undisclosed and "reported" to be close to that figure, so no one knows for sure. Not even you!

Like the famous statement that you made about "Undisclosed Transfer Fees" being "ESTIMATED FACTS"!:facepalm:

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Getting warmer. Here's one:

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/14421-Comparative-wages?highlight=watford+wage

 

[Grendel]

Getting warmer. Here's one:

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/14421-Comparative-wages?highlight=watford+wage

Erm...quite a few to go. Interesting that despite relegations we can now spend half a million in wages on one player.

 

[grego_gee]

Good to see Eric black being interviewed for the managers job

Oi! was that a gee-up?

imp:

 

[Grendel]

Oi! was that a gee-up?

imp:

It's a rumour on another thread. According to MMM that makes it true.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Erm...quite a few to go. Interesting that despite relegations we can now spend half a million in wages on one player.

Not quite a few to go. There are 9 listed clearly there, two others as Hull and Pompey that were so far away as to be not worth mentioning (I do cite Hull's £38m though you'll note). Ditto West ham, Middleborough, Cardiff, Blackpool and Reading. The only ones of our direct peers are Millwall, Barnsley and Doncaster and that's the whole league for you. I know they're there though. I'll find them.....

 

[lordsummerisle]

Not quite a few to go. There are 9 listed clearly there, two others as Hull and Pompey that were so far away as to be not worth mentioning (I do cite Hull's £38m though you'll note). Ditto West ham, Middleborough, Cardiff, Blackpool and Reading. The only ones of our direct peers are Millwall, Barnsley and Doncaster and that's the whole league for you. I know they're there though. I'll find them.....

You haven't found any for last season then at all?

It was last season that you were asserting that our wage bill was in the lowest three in the Championship?

Though it does show that it is not necessarily overall wage bills that make the difference between relegation or not but use of the resources that you have, as Sheffield United and Preston getting relegated with a higher wage bill than ourselves that season proved.

Edit: Sorry you said that we had the lowest wage budget in the Championship.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Accoring to Orange Ken, our wage bill heading into the 2011 to 12 season was circa. £5m:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...y-s-darkest-hour-has-passed-92746-29752398/2/

Barnsley reduced theirs from £7.5m to £6.2m during the season:

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider...elp-barnsley-fc-score-small-profit/index.html

John Ryan bought in Willie McKay, to reduce their £8m bill:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15483154

I'm just looking for Millwall now, but given they had players such as Darius Henderson and could afford Keogh from Wolves; I think their structure would have been greater than ours.

Still, I don't need to bother do I? Point proven, eh?

 

[Grendel]

Accoring to Orange Ken, our wage bill heading into the 2011 to 12 season was circa. £5m:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...y-s-darkest-hour-has-passed-92746-29752398/2/

Barnsley reduced theirs from £7.5m to £6.2m during the season:

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider...elp-barnsley-fc-score-small-profit/index.html


John Ryan bought in Willie McKay, to reduce their £8m bill:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15483154

I'm just looking for Millwall now, but given they had players such as Darius Henderson and could afford Keogh from Wolves; I think their structure would have been greater than ours.

Still, I don't need to bother do I? Point proven, eh?

Where's Peterborough? QPR were a premier league team last season and Preston and Sheffield were in division one weren't they?

 

[skybluehugh]

running out of arguments hay Grendel, you always have to resort to name calling when you have run out or people prove you wrong. Put little you away and debate like the adult you claim to be.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

You haven't found any for last season then at all?

It was last season that you were asserting that our wage bill was in the lowest three in the Championship?

Though it does show that it is not necessarily overall wage bills that make the difference between relegation or not but use of the resources that you have, as Sheffield United and Preston getting relegated with a higher wage bill than ourselves that season proved.

Edit: Sorry you said that we had the lowest wage budget in the Championship.

Come on, that's impossible. To have information to hand that cites in real time what every club are paying? I took information from their last set of audited accounts, and assumed that if the clubs were stable, without changing league position or gates that they would be pretty stable with regads salary structure. Most players aren't on one year contracts, are they? Their contarcts would span a few year's accounts. meaning massive fluctuations would be improbable.

And I never stated THE lowest. I stated within the bottom three