Coronavirus (1 Viewer)

Been having conversations with my brothers and sisters about my mum who is 79 with copd. They think she should do what she thinks best id prefer to tell her that’s not a great idea but what do I know eh

Grendel said:

No government has across the globe has it?

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Didn’t we used to be a world leader in innovation? Sounds pretty innovative to me.

If not that approach... I think the approach of Italy and France to suspend all utility bills and mortgages is a good alternative.

Grendel said:

Fake news Ian only 5% would ever take out such indemnity anyway

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Which is why the government have to protect small businesses.

CCFCSteve said:

Not sure it’s a U turn Sick Boy. We knew these types of measures were going to come in, it was just when and to what extent. Every country is updating and ramping up their responses (pretty much on a daily basis) dependent on their own data, requirements etc

What I was shocked at is the encouragement to avoid any unnecessary social contact (avoiding bars, restaurants etc) with immediate effect. I was hoping this could be avoided with the exception of elderly and those with pre- existing conditions. The impact of this is huge !

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It was always going to come, the data was telling us clearly we were on the same track as other European countries.

I wish there was more transparency around what the trigger points for adding and removing certain measures were. It’s not like there’s an enemy watching and we’re all adults. You could tell from the press questions after the briefing that people want some idea to help plan and support and the government don’t seem to want to commit. I get that historically or in a localised issue, but we can all see and hear in real time the situation around the world and frankly it’s getting a little patronising that they seem to be letting people believe we might not have to do similar measures.

I expect school closures for children of non-essential staff like the Netherlands have just done I think. Probably within a week. We should just say “we are waiting for the data to hit X” before we consider that, we shouldn’t need to but the history of the administration, the febrile political atmosphere around Brexit, and the fact we have allowed the narrative that we are going our own way to develop have removed that luxury. We need trust and right now that means transparency.

Ian1779 said:

Didn’t we used to be a world leader in innovation? Sounds pretty innovative to me.

If not that approach... I think the approach of Italy and France to suspend all utility bills and mortgages is a good alternative.

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Stopping private loaned mortgages - indefinitely - I would like to look at these details?

shmmeee said:

It was always going to come, the data was telling us clearly we were on the same track as other European countries.

I wish there was more transparency around what the trigger points for adding and removing certain measures were. It’s not like there’s an enemy watching and we’re all adults. You could tell from the press questions after the briefing that people want some idea to help plan and support and the government don’t seem to want to commit. I get that historically or in a localised issue, but we can all see and hear in real time the situation around the world and frankly it’s getting a little patronising that they seem to be letting people believe we might not have to do similar measures.

I expect school closures for children of non-essential staff like the Netherlands have just done I think. Probably within a week. We should just say “we are waiting for the data to hit X” before we consider that, we shouldn’t need to but the history of the administration, the febrile political atmosphere around Brexit, and the fact we have allowed the narrative that we are going our own way to develop have removed that luxury. We need trust and right now that means transparency.

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Can’t disagree with a majority of that mate.

This could get a lot worse though and it’s a fine balance between telling people everything and managing the general population. I think it’s happened a week quicker than anticipated from what one of the science guys was saying at the press conference

Coronavirus: Iceland stores to open early for older shoppers

Small thing but sensible I think.

shmmeee said:

It was always going to come, the data was telling us clearly we were on the same track as other European countries.

I wish there was more transparency around what the trigger points for adding and removing certain measures were. It’s not like there’s an enemy watching and we’re all adults. You could tell from the press questions after the briefing that people want some idea to help plan and support and the government don’t seem to want to commit. I get that historically or in a localised issue, but we can all see and hear in real time the situation around the world and frankly it’s getting a little patronising that they seem to be letting people believe we might not have to do similar measures.

I expect school closures for children of non-essential staff like the Netherlands have just done I think. Probably within a week. We should just say “we are waiting for the data to hit X” before we consider that, we shouldn’t need to but the history of the administration, the febrile political atmosphere around Brexit, and the fact we have allowed the narrative that we are going our own way to develop have removed that luxury. We need trust and right now that means transparency.

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Its bloody deserted over here, just a couple of beered up folks staggering around shouting something indecipherable at some random people . Reminds me a bit of Wimbledon away in the old days.

CCFCSteve said:

Can’t disagree with a majority of that mate.

This could get a lot worse though and it’s a fine balance between telling people everything and managing the general population. I think it’s happened a week quicker than anticipated from what one of the science guys was saying at the press conference

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Seems like it, so what data were they looking at and what made them think that we would be any different?

Ring Of Steel said:

Seems like it, so what data were they looking at and what made them think that we would be any different?

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I don’t think they did think it would be different. More the timing of it.

I can only guess from what I’ve heard

wingy said:

Coronavirus: Iceland stores to open early for older shoppers

Small thing but sensible I think.

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Great idea

wingy said:

Coronavirus: Iceland stores to open early for older shoppers

Small thing but sensible I think.

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But how will that work in practise, Wingy?

Like for my dad, I would have to go with him. That then opens it up for people to cheat the system. Don't you think loads of people are going to say they have to go with their dad, or mum, or that they are their carer etc?

Good idea, but surely open to abuse.

Ring Of Steel said:

Seems like it, so what data were they looking at and what made them think that we would be any different?

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Their data set was small, so it was prone to a higher degree of error.

Otis said:

But how will that work in practise, Wingy?

Like for my dad, I would have to go with him. That then opens it up for people to cheat the system. Don't you think loads of people are going to say they have to go with their dad, or mum, or that they are their carer etc?

Good idea, but surely open to abuse.

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Just like being young again.

shmmeee said:

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“so would you rather be in Italy?”

Brighton Sky Blue said:

Their data set was small, so it was prone to a higher degree of error.

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There comes a point where you’ve got to admit it looks like a fuck up and all signs point to fuck up.

Ring Of Steel said:

“so would you rather be in Italy?”

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Cant wait to hear how all this was Boris’ genius plan the stupid foreigners wouldn’t understand.

shmmeee said:

There comes a point where you’ve got to admit it looks like a fuck up and all signs point to fuck up.

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no I’m sure they were using the wrong scale on the graph.

shmmeee said:

There comes a point where you’ve got to admit it looks like a fuck up and all signs point to fuck up.

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They were working with several hundred pieces of data. We now have over 1,500. The only mistake they made was to attempt to extrapolate from the first two points of the curve.

Ring Of Steel said:

“so would you rather be in Italy?”

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It's almost like you want this disease to wipe out millions in order to prove a point

Brighton Sky Blue said:

It's almost like you want this disease to wipe out millions in order to prove a point

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You’re the first person to stoop to that kind of comment so far. Not a good look for you, you crack on.

Brighton Sky Blue said:

They were working with several hundred pieces of data. We now have over 1,500. The only mistake they made was to attempt to extrapolate from the first two points of the curve.

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No. The mistake they made was to think they knew better ultimately. They thought they could do what the Chinese with all their social control couldn’t. They wanted a way for this not to fuck the economy and so when one was offered, no matter how crackpot it obviously was to anyone with even a passing knowledge of stats, epidemiology, or the capacity of the NHS, they took it. It’s a government that knows nothing with too much trust in people who think they know everything and the accepted wisdom is always wrong.

Literally every other country has managed to figure this out, especially after Italy didn’t and then came screaming at everyone else to take it seriously. Instead they used the CSA and CMO as human shields for what was obviously a shit plan. It was the British exceptionalism that’s been running rife in these threads the last few days that silly Johnny Foreigner is going to fuck his economy and rational smart U.K. won’t be so stupid.

It doesn’t matter now, we are seemingly on t he right track, but like fuck at I going to forget the fact that the chimp in a suit half the country adoringly elected is wholly unsuitable to the role of PM. That shit government that is fucking Brexit? They didn’t suddenly become statesmen.

Brighton Sky Blue said:

It's almost like you want this disease to wipe out millions in order to prove a point

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“Why don’t you believe in Britain?”

“It’s almost like you want us to get a shit trade deal”

Come on mate, you’re better than that.

Trying to make sense of the government’s Coronavirus advice is mind boggling. It makes Labour’s Brexit policy at the last election look clear cut. I see that the entertainment industry are up in arms about it because they’re advising people not to go but not ordering pubs, clubs, theatres etc to close which apparently robs them of the option of financial protections.

shmmeee said:

“Why don’t you believe in Britain?”

“It’s almost like you want us to get a shit trade deal”

Come on mate, you’re better than that.

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It's how he comes across. Like pretty much any other discussion on this site he tries to take the moral high ground and spends more time on that than substantive discussion

Brighton Sky Blue said:

It's how he comes across. Like pretty much any other discussion on this site he tries to take the moral high ground and spends more time on that than substantive discussion

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I wouldn’t be talking about moral high ground when you’re accusing people of “wanting millions to die”.

He was having a substantive discussion, expressing a view, and you asked a stupid, unanswerable question to try and make him look stupid & close him down. Who gave you the authority to tell him not to be worried?

Ring Of Steel said:

I wouldn’t be talking about moral high ground when you’re accusing people of “wanting millions to die”.

He was having a substantive discussion, expressing a view, and you asked a stupid, unanswerable question to try and make him look stupid & close him down. Who gave you the authority to tell him not to be worried?

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Who has given anyone the authority to imply that those wanting to go to the pub while it's still possible care any less about the fate of elderly or vulnerable people?

Look, this is a global pandemic. Apart from full lock downs it appears that no country can properly deal with this.

The government, rightly or wrongly, has followed scientific/medical advice (backed up by modelling) and were hoping to implement a strategy that minimised/shortened the impact on people’s lives/livelihoods. The numbers have been remodelled and they know this can’t work without now causing excessive fatalities so have accelerated some of the more drastic decisions/measures.

The strategy every country is taking (which are far more dramatic across the board than they were a week ago) are probably going to cause a global recession and costs millions of jobs and that’s obviously in addition to the projected high number of fatalities from the disease.

If someone was saying, if only the government had done this, everything would be fine, then fair enough, but I can’t see anyone saying that.

Let’s hope as a country we can all pull together, take a selfless approach to the situation (like Pete’s offer earlier) and help those most in need.

Night all, it’s been a rather stressful day, we will get through this though x

Well, this doesn't look good.

This graph in particular:

CCFCSteve said:

Look, this is a global pandemic. Apart from full lock downs it appears that no country can properly deal with this.

The government, rightly or wrongly, has followed scientific/medical advice (backed up by modelling) and were hoping to implement a strategy that minimised/shortened the impact on people’s lives/livelihoods. The numbers have been remodelled and they know this can’t work without now causing excessive fatalities so have accelerated some of the more drastic decisions/measures.

The strategy every country is taking (which are far more dramatic across the board than they were a week ago) are probably going to cause a global recession and costs millions of jobs and that’s obviously in addition to the projected high number of fatalities from the disease.

If someone was saying, if only the government had done this, everything would be fine, then fair enough, but I can’t see anyone saying that.

Let’s hope as a country we can all pull together, take a selfless approach to the situation (like Pete’s offer earlier) and help those most in need.

Night all, it’s been a rather stressful day, we will get through this though x

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Heard so many experts being highly critical of the government, Steve.

We just need to now make sure we ARE on the right path.

Otis said:

Heard so many experts being highly critical of the government, Steve.

We just need to now make sure we ARE on the right path.

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Me too Otis. I’d also heard a number being supportive.

I’ve said from day one that if the government are making their decisions based on medical/scientific advice (which is adequately challenged) I would be supportive. If not, then they would lose my support/faith.

ps definitely going now !

Fifth year medical students at UK universities are now effectively being asked to become doctors. The situation is spiralling out of control. There is a serious shortage of doctors and nurses in the NHS but more worryingly, if this virus does become a recurring phenomenon, then the NHS may not be able to cope.

Point of info for anyone who suspects or may in the future suspect exposure symptoms

Apparently those in the profession have been issued am alert today not to use anti inflammatory drugs to treat yourself as it may exacerbate things .
Some younger patients having stronger reactions due to this.

Edit:- this is anecdotal info from a midwife who says it was issued today
However PHE have said in articles today that there is no issue .

Ian1779 said:

This is where the government need to intervene. Is the notion of an universal basic income that ludicrous in such unprecedented times?

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They won't even requisition private hospitals, they're in thrall to the market at the cost of everybody