Breaking news: Acl call off rent talks (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter AFCCOVENTRY
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Clearly not the case at Grendel + Co.
SISU now make a decision, pay, sign or sell, which ever they decide they must know now the hard nose business plan has not worked, the spin has come to this and 5 years of bad management has brought them to this point. They got us relegated they have hired, brought and sold badly not the council, we can blame the council for all but SISU should of done a deal on day 1 regarding the rent not now when the plan for premiership never came about.
CCFC need a good rent deal or shared ownership to create money streams but the situation now gas not come today this has been a long time coming, i dont wamt the club to die, just want it sorted one way or the other.
CCFC need a good rent deal or shared ownership to create money streams but the situation now gas not come today this has been a long time coming, i dont wamt the club to die, just want it sorted one way or the other.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Seems like there's quite a few on here who have messy pants over the idea of ACL finally bringing us to our knees. Still, they can all congregate outside the ACL office every other week can't they for their sporting pleasure?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
catering income at HR
year............................ Attendance........................ Value
2002................................16150............................537156
2003.................................14813.............................78926
2004................................14816..............................84596
2005................................16048............................911265 (exceptional year due to events put on for leaving HR)
Source CCFC filed accounts
year............................ Attendance........................ Value
2002................................16150............................537156
2003.................................14813.............................78926
2004................................14816..............................84596
2005................................16048............................911265 (exceptional year due to events put on for leaving HR)
Source CCFC filed accounts
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
SISU dont do 'goodwill gestures'...they are not a charity (like the Higgs Trust), they are a Mayfair based hedge fund, and by the very nature of it's being, will take disputes to the nth degree for maximum profit.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Come on Torchy - you can see it's SISU's stance and method of negotiating that's got us here.
You may have a valid point that the rent appears too high; but they didn't address it 5 years ago, and are trying to do so now both apparently unlawfully and unprofessionally.
I would have acted more decisively than ACL months and months ago. Trying to negotiate with SISU seems akin to trying to put smoke in your pocket
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of them still believe that someone will come in and take us over and that ACL will offer concession after concession to new owners.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Imagine how much more we pay for stuff now a decade later with inflation, etc. We'd be making loads.
How much have we lost out on over the last seven and a half seasons, I wonder, OSB? Do you have those figures. It would be interesting to see how much the Club has missed out on, wouldn't it?
How much have we lost out on over the last seven and a half seasons, I wonder, OSB? Do you have those figures. It would be interesting to see how much the Club has missed out on, wouldn't it?
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
Match day costs i believe, not the rent ?
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong...memory aint what i used to be lol
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Football is not the way I'd like it, call m out of touch, but I don't think footballers should earn much more than a worker, nor sould managers, I don't think there should be transfer fees or agents in football, I dont think capitalists should put their nose into ANY sports, BUT they have, and what can I do about it!? I don't think football clubs should be allowed to run up so much debt, so I support much, much more stricter FFP, I think football, financially, needs to be more like Germany, even more radical tbh. The BBC should show every EPL game and the FL should get much more coverage and tickets should be more affordable. Football clubs should run to break-even or make profit, and should own their own stadia, that's why I support the club, local authorities, as well as capitalists should keep their nose out of the revenue streams. That's all I can recall for now, but as you can read, I don't like the way football is run, but again, what can I do, I can only make judgements within the context of the situation.
The Council were willing to buy shares and build the RICOH etc. and supported ACL with 14m, why didn't they support the club, let CCFC have the stadium and pay back the loan the council gave the club, rather than imposing a crippling rent, making zilch off our stadium on match day, the council haven't given us a fighting chance.
I also think we should adopt the trading system in USA, ironically, US sports is actually quite 'communist', with the drafting and trading players with salary caps (etc. etc.) systems they have in place.
I'm supporting the football club have supported since the tender age of 4, why should I support a the New Labour, neo-liberal council that has betrayed their own principles over my working-class football club!?
I don't like SISU, but they represent CCFC and are all we've got at this moment in time, so I'm obliged to lend them my support, especially when I think this instance, it is in the best interests of the club, also, CCFC need to make themselves attractive to investors, we're exactly the opposite ATM.
ACL are also capitalists, I'm choosing which capitalist to support, and the winner is the football club I support to which I'm emotionally bound to.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
They put 500k into the ESCROW account as well as matchday costs.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
1. Although I may act it, I'm not stupid. I know a huge amount of blame can be laid at SISUs door for our situation. I have said many times the Club should make a gesture and pay something to ACL.
2. As you said "the rent appears too high", it is. Very high. Therefore, I also blame ACL for taking advantage of the Club all those years ago. Yes, McGinnity and Co were stupid in agreeing to such a high figure, but someone in ACL/The Council must have put that figure on the table in the first place.
I think they're both as bad as each other in their own way. I'm simply on SISU's "side" as they are the football club.
2. As you said "the rent appears too high", it is. Very high. Therefore, I also blame ACL for taking advantage of the Club all those years ago. Yes, McGinnity and Co were stupid in agreeing to such a high figure, but someone in ACL/The Council must have put that figure on the table in the first place.
I think they're both as bad as each other in their own way. I'm simply on SISU's "side" as they are the football club.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
That's a little childish.
I think people support their club and would like their owners to act with integrity and honesty. Also to be professional in their business dealings.
SISU really need to start coming up with some solutions themselves!
Other than suggestion mediation in a web site and saying 'they know my number. I will wait for their call'
No Coventry fan wants Coventry to go under. However I imagine most want them to behave like owners of a football club and not Billy's circus.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Your you first point though Torch. A lot in here are saying ACL wankers.
Have you ever heard of business deals getting done where only one side offers compromises.
SISU are not dumb they know they need to re build trust.
Yet they don't offer a penny. It really does make me wonder if they genuinely want the deal.
A compromise can always be met.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
We've paid 500k and match day costs.
You've misunderstood my post, I'm saying SISU have compromised in this deal and even at 400k, we'd be paying over market value, if it was unclear, I apologise.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Whilst real figures are always welcome in these seemingly never ending debates, I don't think these are particluarly useful.....
Fans use the F&B facilites at the Ricoh far far more than they ever used those at HR.....We all used to drink in the surrounding pubs & eat from the local shops did we not?
God I miss the old dump....Take me home...Highfield Road.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
And a lot of people on here can only see the side of ACL. So what's the difference. Compromise with business deals. Well, no one on here has been in the meetings so how do we know what has been offered and counter-offered? We only know what SISU and ACL decide to tell us.
Dhinsa's_Millions
Well-Known Member
The clock is seriously ticking at present. CCFC could seriously not exist in its current state come next season IMO. Players wages will not be paid in a few weeks and it could spiral out of control.
ACL are trying to force SISU's hand it looks very clear to me on this one. Both parties are partly to blame but where do we go from here? One of them will have to fold because ACL (CC) will NEVER sell half the ground to SISU and thats why they are here and as CC are currently bankrolling the entire project they would rather see SISU fold.
Further to this I just don't think a new ground is a feasible option because:
- Coventry Council would have a massive say in planning permission if they submitted permission in Coventry
- Would anyone want to travel outside of the City to watch games - The football league wouldn't allow this (rules since Wimbledon fiasco)?
- It also takes years for a project to take place (it could be 5-10 years before one was built even IF permission was granted).
A depressing outlook for all but what else will realistically happen here with an alleged £45 Million debt? Liquidation or Administration?
SISU could possible recoup more money from the latter but might just want to cut their losses?
ACL are trying to force SISU's hand it looks very clear to me on this one. Both parties are partly to blame but where do we go from here? One of them will have to fold because ACL (CC) will NEVER sell half the ground to SISU and thats why they are here and as CC are currently bankrolling the entire project they would rather see SISU fold.
Further to this I just don't think a new ground is a feasible option because:
- Coventry Council would have a massive say in planning permission if they submitted permission in Coventry
- Would anyone want to travel outside of the City to watch games - The football league wouldn't allow this (rules since Wimbledon fiasco)?
- It also takes years for a project to take place (it could be 5-10 years before one was built even IF permission was granted).
A depressing outlook for all but what else will realistically happen here with an alleged £45 Million debt? Liquidation or Administration?
SISU could possible recoup more money from the latter but might just want to cut their losses?
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
I blame SISU and previous owners for this. The rent on offer is significantly lower than when we were bailed out years ago.
If We move stadium the club is dead..... No fans will go to Daventry or any other place. The Butts, Sphinx od Bedworth United' s ground are the only real options. Fans will struggle to get to those grounds. City will be dead if allowed to move out of the area.
skybluehugh
New Member
About time, our owners have had long enough to sort this out. All you owner fans want is for ACL to cave in and give the owners all they want. Well your nuts is sn't going to happen unless SHITSU are prepared to move from their hard nose stubben ways. Their like kids in a sweet shop, wanting everything not realising it costs money to fill their faces.
Also if we are made to go into Admin then this is the season to do it. We can afford the 10pts deduction without the real risk of going down to L2. And start afresh next season.
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
It was a reserve account that was built up for this eventuality. They didn't plan to give it. It was drawn from the account by ACL. Like SISU intended to pay up, no way?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
But what is 'market value'? Compared to others in our division? Other cubs, who's council may or may not use the stadium for other events/uses?
There are very, very few - if any - exact apples for apples comparisons, so to quote market value is very hard indeed.
What I can tell you is even at £1.3m, that should have equated to circa. £2 per ticket. SISU, for five years have had the chance to take the balance to build a business plan around. From a clean-slate, they've failed.
There is one unerring constant in all of this. One simple fact. SISU cannot run a football club.
The rest, my friend, it's noise. But SISU cannot run a football club and nothing will change that
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
This to me is where the whole of football has a problem. You could say run it as you would any other business in which case you would cut staff costs to an affordable (ie: not loss making) level. However, as we saw last season, doing that leaves us playing kids and struggling to stay in the division let alone pushing for promotion.
Would people be happy if SISU came out and said we're slashing the wage budget so we can break even? Can't see it going down well. What's the answer here, there doesn't seem to be an obvious one beyond somehow persuading 30K to turn up every week! Do we just cut costs and accept playing L1 football for several years in an empty stadium? Have a feeling the crowds would go down even further if it was thought we were making no effort for promotion.
Is there a way to make the club self sustaining with or without the stadium?
skyblueman
New Member
Got a feeling something will get sorted when it's certain we won't be in a play-off position 
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Hell's teeth. If this thread contains a few truisms, that's the most stark. If only this were all a dream we could wake up from...
Agreed ACL have SISU over a barrel. It's no good whining about it, we agreed the deal and the council presumably agreed a mortgage with the bank on the back of it.
I think the only further negotiations that ACL will now consider is with new Owners. Sisu therefore have to make a decision now either put us into admin/ sell us or pay up. They are the only options left.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
The rent is NOT significantly lower yet as nothing has been agreed.
Secondly, fans would go to a new stadium though having one in Daventry, etc would be stupid and would never happen. I come from Warwick to see City and I have for 40 years so a stadium elsewhere in the City wouldn't make any difference to me. And I disagree, I think fans would continue to go if the stadium was in teh City.
Secondly, fans would go to a new stadium though having one in Daventry, etc would be stupid and would never happen. I come from Warwick to see City and I have for 40 years so a stadium elsewhere in the City wouldn't make any difference to me. And I disagree, I think fans would continue to go if the stadium was in teh City.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
That's your spin on it, but as always, ACL are always the victim, and nothing's ever their fault. Here, ACL are bullying the club to agree an agreement they don't want to.
No one here wants ACL to cave in, what I want is a reasonable agreement, where CCFC get the revenue streams off our own fans at our own events - currently denied - and some debt written off - denied - so it's not only SISU, or as you say SHITSU (which says it all tbh) that are hard-nosed, it's also ACL. As they say, 'it takes two to tango'.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Are you sure those figures are correct? I'm not questioning you I'm questioning the accounts themselves. Do you think that the years 2003 and 2004 are a misnomer or something has been accounted differently? I can't see a few events put on in the last season leading to a tenfold increase.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
That 500k was put into the escrow account many, many years ago, in case CCFC (aka SISU) ever defaulted, which they subsequently did, proving it was a sound decision !
Since CCFC (aka SISU) started witholding any rent, they are now paying 'matchday costs' only and no rent.
If as it appears, TF is happy with the £400k rent figure, and we're just squabbling over F&B, why havent the club been paying a token rent figure (say £250K) in the meantime..which would mean the debt is now less ?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Have you heard yourself SBT you will be saying Mary Poppins runs our club next !!!!
