Immigration and Asylum (13 Viewers)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It was a joke. Are we not allowed any humour on here amongst the many arguments?

Fair enough, it was SBT that was referencing the ‘workhouse’ and therefore, thought you were echoing that sentiment.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

Another hack on BBC QT claiming small boat migrants are ‘doctors, nurses, engineers and scientists’…

 

[Grendel]

Good that you think my wife is pulling a con with a visual impairment G

It’s not a con but should the state pay regardless of earnings?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Another hack on BBC QT claiming some asylum seekers are ‘doctors, nurses, engineers and scientists’…

An important correction there.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

An important correction there.

If we’re being honest, the chances are that small boat migrants are delivering takeaways, living on the welfare state than being doctors, nurses engineers or scientists.

She’s using a trope to avoid difficult questions.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If we’re being honest, the chances are that small boat migrants are delivering takeaways, living on the welfare state than being doctors, nurses engineers or scientists.

She’s using a trope to avoid difficult questions.

She didn’t mention small boats once was my point. But let’s suppose she did, some of them will be skilled workers.

Again coming back to these attempts at smearing everyone in an unsavoury fashion and that if they all just fucked off we’d have a land of milk and honey.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

She didn’t mention small boats once was my point. But let’s suppose she did, some of them will be skilled workers.

Again coming back to these attempts at smearing everyone in an unsavoury fashion and that if they all just fucked off we’d have a land of milk and honey.

Do you have a %?

The vast majority will be unskilled economic migrants. Thats the reality and just because less than 1% of them may be doctors does not justify people like this comedian parroting this phrase.

IIRC, the other day you were questioning who even says ‘doctors, nurses, engineers and scientists’ and yet, when presented with a few examples the conversation turns to ‘well some are so it’s not wrong’.

At best, we have around 2k refugee doctors (with qualifications) in total. So it’s fair to say that less than 1% of asylum seekers will be doctors in a given year.

So yeah, I’m tired of idiots like Zoe Lyons misleading the public.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Do you have a %?

The vast majority will be unskilled economic migrants. Thats the reality and just because less than 1% of them may be doctors does not justify people like this comedian parroting this phrase.

IIRC, the other day you were questioning who even says ‘doctors, nurses, engineers and scientists’ and yet, when presented with a few examples the conversation turns to ‘well some are so it’s not wrong’.

At best, we have around 2k refugee doctors (with qualifications) in total. So it’s fair to say that less than 1% of asylum seekers will be doctors in a given year.

So yeah, I’m tired of idiots like Zoe Lyons misleading the public.

Well if you ignore everyone who is skilled, yes they are all unskilled. The thing is that I'm actually largely with you on what a successful immigration and asylum policy/outcome would look like, I just dislike the smearing that goes on.

She even joined in on the 'get rid of them if they come here illegally' line which breaches the refugee convention, but apparently that's not enough.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Well if you ignore everyone who is skilled, yes they are all unskilled. The thing is that I'm actually largely with you on what a successful immigration and asylum policy/outcome would look like, I just dislike the smearing that goes on.

She even joined in on the 'get rid of them if they come here illegally' line which breaches the refugee convention, but apparently that's not enough.

The thing about conventions is that they’re not laws… you don’t actually have follow them. If we have to suspend or leave conventions to achieve the political goals, so be it.

What’s the % of skilled workers who are asylum seekers?

Post-Brexit, only around 5% of arrivals were skilled workers so I’m deeply sceptical that figure is higher for people who arrive illegally.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The thing about conventions is that they’re not laws… you don’t actually have follow them. If we have to suspend or leave conventions to achieve the political goals, so be it.

What’s the % of skilled workers who are asylum seekers?

Post-Brexit, only around 5% of arrivals were skilled workers so I’m deeply sceptical that figure is higher for people who arrive illegally.

I know we don't...but there's a process to go through in order to leave which we haven't yet, so what she's saying is we should break our word on something we claim to uphold.

Given that there's no practical way for someone urgently fleeing for their safety to get here 'legally', it just looks like a workaround to not accept any asylum seekers full stop.

 

[fatso]

She didn’t mention small boats once was my point. But let’s suppose she did, some of them will be skilled workers.

Again coming back to these attempts at smearing everyone in an unsavoury fashion and that if they all just fucked off we’d have a land of milk and honey.

If your a skilled doctor. You come over here on a £250 flight into Heathrow and claim asylum through the normal process.

You dont pay upto £5k to an illegal people smuggler and risk life and death crossing the channel

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I know we don't...but there's a process to go through in order to leave which we haven't yet, so what she's saying is we should break our word on something we claim to uphold.

Given that there's no practical way for someone urgently fleeing for their safety to get here 'legally', it just looks like a workaround to not accept any asylum seekers full stop.

There is no practical because we’re an island… We should suspend (or even abolish) the right to all asylum applications at the border. This is what countries like Poland do despite being an EU member. This is where the convention is hopelessly outdated and unequipped to deal with intercontinental asylum seeking.

Put simply, the assumption needs to be that no one outside of Europe is “urgently fleeing for their safety” when coming to the UK.

This is where I think your views are somewhat contradictory. On one hand, you believe there is a problem with the system that needs to be solved but at the same time your underlying assumption is that all of these people making the journey is ‘legal’.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

If your a skilled doctor. You come over here on a £250 flight into Heathrow and claim asylum through the normal process.

You dont pay upto £5k to an illegal people smuggler and risk life and death crossing the channel

Whilst destroying your documents because skilled professionals who want to contribute to our society will do this…

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We should suspend (or even abolish) the right to all asylum applications at the border.

And there we have it.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

And there we have it.

Poland have done this following Belarus weaponising irregular border crossings. Why shouldn’t the UK and EU members follow suit?

 

[PVA]

If your a skilled doctor. You come over here on a £250 flight into Heathrow and claim asylum through the normal process.

No you don't, that is impossible. You cannot get on a flight to claim asylum.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Poland have done this following Belarus weaponising irregular border crossings. Why shouldn’t the UK and EU members follow suit?

You know it would have saved a lot of time had you just skipped straight to saying this instead of pretending it was about legal entry.

I mean if you want to discuss why we should bother giving refuge to anyone we can, but I didn't think that needed explaining.

 

[TomRad85]

Good that you think my wife is pulling a con with a visual impairment G

Ask her if she thinks Blues' stadium design looks good then we'll know for sure. I'd actually campaign to make this standard in all eye tests.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

No you don't, that is impossible. You cannot get on a flight to claim asylum.

Airports are classed as a port of entry. The difference is that you need to have all documentation at the ready in an airport.

Lee Anderson was mocked for this, but why would someone from Albania cross via smal boat rather than a £25 Wizz Air flight to claim asylum?

You know it would have saved a lot of time had you just skipped straight to saying this instead of pretending it was about legal entry.

I mean if you want to discuss why we should bother giving refuge to anyone we can, but I didn't think that needed explaining.

No, this conversation strikes me because you don’t seem capable of making a difficult choice. How do you stop organised people smuggling without denying asylum claims and removing people?

When saying we should suspend the right to claim asylum at the border, it’s not saying no right to asylum. It just means any and all asylum claims are processed away from UK territory.

Given that we only share a border with Ireland, we should not be getting any asylum claims at any other border.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

There is no practical because we’re an island… We should suspend (or even abolish) the right to all asylum applications at the border. This is what countries like Poland do despite being an EU member. This is where the convention is hopelessly outdated and unequipped to deal with intercontinental asylum seeking.

And if all countries did that then the only way asylum seekers could leave their own country is via going through their government. Only for many of them it's their own government that they need asylum and protection from. So what do that do? I guess they'd have to pay criminal gangs to smuggle them out of the country and thus everyone becomes an illegal asylum seeker.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The clue is in the name ‘Working class’…

So you're calling working class people an 'underclass' now are you...?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ask her if she thinks Blues' stadium design looks good then we'll know for sure. I'd actually campaign to make this standard in all eye tests.

I dunno, I think if she's decided to marry me then she's failed the eye test there and then.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The number of people paying in makes no difference what so ever. Its a complete myth to suggest that too many pensioners drawing cash out of the system and not enough workers paying in will bankrupt the economy.

Now repeat that sentence, but change one word. Where it says 'pensioners', replace it with 'welfare claimants'.

Would you still agree with the sentence?

And if not, why not, given that pensions are a higher figure than welfare payouts?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So you're calling working class people an 'underclass' now are you...?

People on living on benefits and not in work aren’t ‘working class’… I don’t know why you and others are getting upset at the use of the term ‘underclass’. It’s a widely used term in sociology.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No, this conversation strikes me because you don’t seem capable of making a difficult choice. How do you stop organised people smuggling without denying asylum claims and removing people?

When saying we should suspend the right to claim asylum at the border, it’s not saying no right to asylum. It just means any and all asylum claims are processed away from UK territory.

Given that we only share a border with Ireland, we should not be getting any asylum claims at any other border.

So where should they be processed then? I've advocated for offshore asylum claim processing before, to be clear.

 

[fatso]

Now repeat that sentence, but change one word. Where it says 'pensioners', replace it with 'welfare claimants'.

Would you still agree with the sentence?

And if not, why not, given that pensions are a higher figure than welfare payouts?

The difference being that pensioners have built the country and created the wealth that provides the money that's in the system.

Where as welfare claimants have contributed absolutely nothing.
Some through no fault of their own, and we should support them, but theres plenty of work shy lazy cunts who have no intention of contributing anything.

 

[PVA]

Airports are classed as a port of entry. The difference is that you need to have all documentation at the ready in an airport.

Lee Anderson was mocked for this, but why would someone from Albania cross via smal boat rather than a £25 Wizz Air flight to claim asylum?

Well I think you have answered your own question there. They aren't spending 5k instead of 25 quid and risking their lives for the fun of it.

It's because you can't get on a plane and claim asylum.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So where should they be processed then? I've advocated for offshore asylum claim processing before, to be clear.

Personally, I felt the government shouldn’t have scrapped Rwanda. That said, it seems like the plan was doomed to fail because of the ECHR and there’s a few legal experts claiming Mahmood’s reforms will fail for the same reason. We’ll wait and see, the ‘1 in, 1 out’ was supposed to a game changer before it became a farce.

Again, my view is that we implement an Australian style ‘Operation Sovereign Borders’ and that means turning back boats and offshore processing.

This is something the entire EU should doing imo. It’s a farce across the entire bloc and mass migration causing the same issues in Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Spain, Germany and France.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Well I think you have answered your own question there. They aren't spending 5k instead of 25 quid and risking their lives for the fun of it.

It's because you can't get on a plane and claim asylum.

Albania is a safe country…

1 in 5 of the Albanian population in the UK is in jail, it’s clearly linked to organised crime and praying upon useful idiots to defend this.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Just get rid of pensions for people currently under 40. Reduce NI contributions for those people effected and give them a lump sum too invest themselves.

Ok. So let's give young people, many of whom will have no knowledge whatsoever of how to invest, a lump sum of money.

I think most of those people would require someone to manage that money and investments on their behalf to ensure it's invested wisely.

But that's a lot of people who's money needs looking after, so you'd need something of quite a large scale to be efficient as having all those people investing separately would lead to a lot of needless extra bureaucracy when in could instead be done collectively. And of course the people doing it for them are going to want paying for their services, taking an amount of the initial investment + a % of any gains (though obviously not providing a rebate should the investment go down at any stage).

If only there was some sort of department that could pool all that money together to invest on those people's behalf, cutting the admin and bureaucracy. And imagine if they didn't charge the people for doing it either!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Personally, I felt the government shouldn’t have scrapped Rwanda. That said, it seems like the plan was doomed to fail because of the ECHR and there’s a few legal experts claiming Mahmood’s reforms will fail for the same reason. We’ll wait and see, the ‘1 in, 1 out’ was supposed to a game changer before it became a farce.

Again, my view is that we implement an Australian style ‘Operation Sovereign Borders’ and that means turning back boats and offshore processing.

This is something the entire EU should doing imo. It’s a farce across the entire bloc and mass migration causing the same issues in Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Spain, Germany and France.

Are you saying the EU should be processing claims outside of the EU or that they should be processing claims throughout the EU?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Are you saying the EU should be processing claims outside of the EU or that they should be processing claims throughout the EU?

Outside the EU. The Mediterranean should be policed by the various navies to prevent small boat crossings.

In principle, the UK should cooperate in that endeavour. Frankly speaking, the right of asylum should be reformed to be limited to the continent of origin. Everything else being at the discretion of the nation state.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Outside the EU. The Mediterranean should be policed by the various navies to prevent small boat crossings.

In principle, the UK should cooperate in that endeavour. Frankly speaking, the right of asylum should be reformed to be limited to the continent of origin. Everything else being at the discretion of the nation state.

Again this is something I've spoken in favour of previously and was my preferred course of action in 'stopping the boats'.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

People on living on benefits and not in work aren’t ‘working class’… I don’t know why you and others are getting upset at the use of the term ‘underclass’. It’s a widely used term in sociology.

Because it creates an impression that some people are worth less than others. To sub or de humanise them. Like the term untermensch.

And who decides what an underclass consists of? Is it purely down to financial security? Because there are plenty of very well off individuals who could definitely be considered as an underclass in terms of their treatment of other human beings.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Again this is something I've spoken in favour of previously and was my preferred course of action in 'stopping the boats'.

It is stopping the boats… just in the Med versus the Channel. Of course we should do both.