Do you want to discuss boring politics? (23 Viewers)

[tisza]

I don’t think Norway is totally free at point of use which is maybe why they probably pay more and also why doctors have more time with patients (I presume less people might probably go unless they really needed it)

They have nearly twice as many doctors per 1000 people than UK so that's probably the biggest factor.

 

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[CCFCSteve]

They have nearly twice as many doctors per 1000 people than UK so that's probably the biggest factor.

Agreed, I think the gaps maybe narrowed a little in recent years. Most use 2022 figures yet since then the number of docs in the nhs has increased from 130k to 145k. It was 97k in 2010. I’m not sure how they count private and nhs. Saying that our population has also shot up

As I mentioned though, there’s more money in the Norwegian public/private system, just googled and you have to pay 20-45 euros to see a GP

 

[tisza]

Agreed, I think the gaps maybe narrowed a little in recent years. Most use 2022 figures yet since then the number of docs in the nhs has increased from 130k to 145k. It was 97k in 2010. I’m not sure how they count private and nhs. Saying that our population has also shot up

As I mentioned though, there’s more money in the Norwegian public/private system, just googled and you have to pay 20-45 euros to see a GP

My eldest lived there for 4 years. Cost of living is high - they used to drive into Sweden for shopping. But when she was there you had to pay for the first 200 euros (approx) per year for GPs,healthcare etc then after that it was free. That included mental health as well (she's a psychologist)

 

[CCFCSteve]

My eldest lived there for 4 years. Cost of living is high - they used to drive into Sweden for shopping. But when she was there you had to pay for the first 200 euros (approx) per year for GPs,healthcare etc then after that it was free. That included mental health as well (she's a psychologist)

Sounds like the system is working over there whatever they’re doing. Would never get the buy in here. There was push back even when there was talk of people paying for missed appointments…too much of an admin burden

I say that as someone who wants to see nhs continue as free at the point of use here but I just can’t see it happening the way it’s going

 

[Sick Boy]

I have no issue with people paying for medication but I do not see why the state should fund it.

I know a 35 year old woman who was bragging she has got the jab for free. She’s ridiculously fat and constantly fills her face. She’s also type 2 diabetic. She refuses to blame herself and she blames it on her previously undiagnosed ADHD and anxiety. The diagnosis didn’t stop her filling her face.

Bear in mind here I was considered an alcoholic in my 20’s. I have at times consumed easily 200 units a week. I had 20 years of sobriety and then started again.

I pay for therapy with someone who is an alcoholic. She also has had food addiction issues. I’ve been her for 3 years now.

We both are of the opinion the only way to get over any shame and guilt is to accept your role and take responsibility. Drugs generally don’t work A

Have you managed to regulate your drinking better after having a break? I took a break for a couple of years and long term it helped.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I tend to agree with Grendel here.

Being healthy does take discipline, and people getting straight on the jab because it means they dont need any to lose weight is not good in my opinion.

We are a society of quick fixes.

 

[SBT]

I tend to agree with Grendel here.

Being healthy does take discipline, and people getting straight on the jab because it means they dont need any to lose weight is not good in my opinion.

We are a society of quick fixes.

Does it not take discipline to administer a regular course of medication?

If it nets out as a cost-effective way for the NHS to mitigate the costs of dealing with obesity-related health issues then of course the state should pay for it imo.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Does it not take discipline to administer a regular course of medication?

If it nets out as a cost-effective way for the NHS to mitigate the costs of dealing with obesity-related health issues then of course the state should pay for it imo.

Do we know for certain there are not long term effects of using this weight loss medication?

It causes rapid weight loss which is not healthy and has many subsequent effects.

Taking a jab every morning takes significantly less discipline than avoiding eating a cake, or dragging yourself out on a walk.

 

[Nick]

Do we know for certain there are not long term effects of using this weight loss medication?

It causes rapid weight loss which is not healthy and has many subsequent effects.

Taking a jab every morning takes significantly less discipline than avoiding eating a cake, or dragging yourself out on a walk.

Aren't they weekly?

I think it depends on the person. From what I have seen it deals with the mental side of "food voices". If somebody is massively overweight then maybe it could be PART of their treatment.

It's the same with people who go and have a gastric band but then just find ways to cheat it and eat loads of shit anyway.

As said, the majority of the time it comes down to eating better and moving more.

 

[Sick Boy]

I tend to agree with Grendel here.

Being healthy does take discipline, and people getting straight on the jab because it means they dont need any to lose weight is not good in my opinion.

We are a society of quick fixes.

A lot of people have little to no understanding what nutrition or even how to cook for themselves. It’s also often easier/quicker/cheaper to buy premade/processed food as well.

 

[SBT]

Do we know for certain there are not long term effects of using this weight loss medication?

It causes rapid weight loss which is not healthy and has many subsequent effects.

Taking a jab every morning takes significantly less discipline than avoiding eating a cake, or dragging yourself out on a walk.

I’m not a doctor but I would expect any doctor to only prescribe medication that had been rigorously tested and wouldn’t jeopardise someone’s health further by using it. Clearly in many cases Ozempic etc would fit the bill.

It’s all well and good saying that people should just work harder and cure themselves of medical conditions but meanwhile in the real world there are people who either can’t or won’t, and if there’s a cost-effective medical way to change that then it’s better than just letting people spiral.

 

[tisza]

Do we know for certain there are not long term effects of using this weight loss medication?

It causes rapid weight loss which is not healthy and has many subsequent effects.

Taking a jab every morning takes significantly less discipline than avoiding eating a cake, or dragging yourself out on a walk.

But the "rider" with these jabs is that you do have to exercise and eat properly. Jabs can't cure stupid.

 

[Nick]

A lot of people have little to no understanding what nutrition or even how to cook for themselves. It’s also often easier/quicker/cheaper to buy premade/processed food as well.

The thing is now with the internet, it's really not hard.

I eat bad food because sometimes I'm a lazy bastard, it's not through knowledge. With things like MyFitnessPal and so many recipe sites (and even ChatGPT) you can easily get easy to make, nutiricious but cheap recipes or meal plans.

One thing that does stand out is how expensive takeaways are, I got one the other week as a treat for me and my daughter. 2 of us, an indian takeaway and not a huge amount was £65. I could get a weeks healthy meals out of that.

 

[Nick]

I’m not a doctor but I would expect any doctor to only prescribe medication that had been rigorously tested and wouldn’t jeopardise someone’s health further by using it. Clearly in many cases Ozempic etc would fit the bill.

It’s all well and good saying that people should just work harder and cure themselves of medical conditions but meanwhile in the real world there are people who either can’t or won’t, and if there’s a cost-effective medical way to change that then it’s better than just letting people spiral.

I get it when people have medical conditions that cause the additional weight.

If people simply "won't" or have no interest then it's pointless spending money giving them jabs to help. They will just carry on as normal.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I’m not a doctor but I would expect any doctor to only prescribe medication that had been rigorously tested and wouldn’t jeopardise someone’s health further by using it. Clearly in many cases Ozempic etc would fit the bill.

It’s all well and good saying that people should just work harder and cure themselves of medical conditions but meanwhile in the real world there are people who either can’t or won’t, and if there’s a cost-effective medical way to change that then it’s better than just letting people spiral.

Like the vaccine?

Perhaps if we focussed on education, taxing unhealthy processed foods, and actually made there be some consequence for not taking care of yourself people would change their mind.

 

[Nick]

Like the vaccine?

Perhaps if we focussed on education, taxing unhealthy processed foods, and actually made there be some consequence for not taking care of yourself people would change their mind.

Consequence is a good one to be fair. There aren't any to most things now.

 

[Sick Boy]

Like the vaccine?

Perhaps if we focussed on education, taxing unhealthy processed foods, and actually made there be some consequence for not taking care of yourself people would change their mind.

And the option to talk to someone to help with psychological issues around food, which for many people will be the case but I’d imagine there’s little actual help and support available.

 

[tisza]

A lot of people have little to no understanding what nutrition or even how to cook for themselves. It’s also often easier/quicker/cheaper to buy premade/processed food as well.

They heavily tax alcohol and tobacco often using the reason it pays for the extra health treatment users tend to require. No-one is politically brave enough to go after unhealthy foods which already cost the health system & the economy more than alcohol & tobacco combined.

 

[Sick Boy]

They heavily tax alcohol and tobacco often using the reason it pays for the extra health treatment users tend to require. No-one is politically brave enough to go after unhealthy foods which already cost the health system & the economy more than alcohol & tobacco combined.

I agree. I’d also go as far to remove rows of chocolates/crisps at checkouts as well.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

And the option to talk to someone to help with psychological issues around food, which for many people will be the case but I’d imagine there’s little actual help and support available.

100%.

I appreciate for some people the reason for eating disorders is usually due to trauma.

I think eating healthily, moving more, and therapy help physical and mental health increase exponentially.

For me that would be the priority for any social secretary of health

 

[SBT]

Like the vaccine?

Perhaps if we focussed on education, taxing unhealthy processed foods, and actually made there be some consequence for not taking care of yourself people would change their mind.

You can do all of this as well (and should!) but it won’t stop people from developing obesity-related medical problems that will cost us money to deal with, and if you have a medication that can help with that, why not use it?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

You can do all of this as well (and should!) but it won’t stop people from developing obesity-related medical problems that will cost us money to deal with, and if you have a medication that can help with that, why not use it?

Because we seem to be dishing it out to anyone and everyone

 

[SBT]

If people simply "won't" or have no interest then it's pointless spending money giving them jabs to help. They will just carry on as normal.

I don’t think people should be given drugs that they don’t want to take, or that will have no positive impact on their health. (That goes for all drugs doesn’t it?) But that’s not what we’re talking about here.

 

[Nick]

I don’t think people should be given drugs that they don’t want to take, or that will have no positive impact on their health. (That goes for all drugs doesn’t it?) But that’s not what we’re talking about here.

No, it is about people who have no interest in trying to lose weight or changing their lifestyle to suit it.

 

[Captain Dart]

I tend to agree with Grendel here.

Being healthy does take discipline, and people getting straight on the jab because it means they dont need any to lose weight is not good in my opinion.

We are a society of quick fixes.

I see everybody is beginning to come round to my way of thinking.

 

[tisza]

I agree. I’d also go as far to remove rows of chocolates/crisps at checkouts as well.

Genuinely think there's a discussion to be had about parental responsibility and child obesity.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I agree. I’d also go as far to remove rows of chocolates/crisps at checkouts as well.

They have in supermarkets over here I think (or they’re supposed to)

 

[Grendel]

I don’t think people should be given drugs that they don’t want to take, or that will have no positive impact on their health. (That goes for all drugs doesn’t it?) But that’s not what we’re talking about here.

It’s not on the NHS for weight loss

 

[SBT]

No, it is about people who have no interest in trying to lose weight or changing their lifestyle to suit it.

Why are people taking regular courses of injections if they don’t want to change their lifestyle or improve their health?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Why are people taking regular courses of injections if they don’t want to change their lifestyle or improve their health?

Because its an easy way to lose weight

 

[SBT]

Because its an easy way to lose weight

….good?

 

[SBT]

Honestly, I don’t know why the government pays for roads and public transport when people could just be healthy and walk? It’s like people just expect to get places easily, where is the personal accountability?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

….good?

So either lose weight without developing the good habits attached to it and immediately bounce back with weight gain, or stay on it for life?

 

[Nick]

Honestly, I don’t know why the government pays for roads and public transport when people could just be healthy and walk? It’s like people just expect to get places easily, where is the personal accountability?

You have been even weirder with this shit sarcasm recently. It just shows how far from the real world your bubble seems to be.

I'm guessing you don't know people who have had a gastric band and then just eaten cake and found ways to get around it?

 

[SBT]

So either lose weight without developing the good habits attached to it and immediately bounce back with weight gain, or stay on it for life?

So chronic health conditions aren’t worth treating in your view? What’s the alternative?

Personally I couldn’t care less if someone gets healthy without developing good habits, it’s the outcomes not the process we should care about.