Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Honestly, I don’t know why the government pays for roads and public transport when people could just be healthy and walk? It’s like people just expect to get places easily, where is the personal accountability?

Oh dear

 

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[Ccfcisparks]

So chronic health conditions aren’t worth treating in your view? What’s the alternative?

Personally I couldn’t care less if someone gets healthy without developing good habits, it’s the outcomes not the process we should care about.

You know if you lose weight you haven’t lost it for life?

 

[Grendel]

So chronic health conditions aren’t worth treating in your view? What’s the alternative?

Personally I couldn’t care less if someone gets healthy without developing good habits, it’s the outcomes not the process we should care about.

It’s not free for weight loss through the NHS and you really aren’t thinking this through. Perhaps we should offer neltrexone for alcoholics free as well

 

[SBT]

You have been even weirder with this shit sarcasm recently. It just shows how far from the real world your bubble seems to be.

I'm guessing you don't know people who have had a gastric band and then just eaten cake and found ways to get around it?

I actually don’t know people who’ve done that….sounds like a fun crowd for you though

 

[SBT]

It’s not free for weight loss through the NHS and you really aren’t thinking this through. Perhaps we should offer neltrexone for alcoholics free as well

Why shouldn’t we?

 

[Captain Dart]

Genuinely think there's a discussion to be had about parental responsibility and child obesity.

There was an recent article in the Cov Telegraph web site about primary school kids fund raising for Charterhouse rennovations.

The picture showed 7 kids 4 of which are fat, children were not that fat 50 years ago. I don't think it is much to do with lack of exercise I think it is the food they're eating.

 

[Nick]

So chronic health conditions aren’t worth treating in your view? What’s the alternative?

Personally I couldn’t care less if someone gets healthy without developing good habits, it’s the outcomes not the process we should care about.

You are trying your hardest to miss the point.

 

[Nick]

There was an recent article in the Cov Telegraph web site about primary school kids fund raising for Charterhouse rennovations.

The picture showed 7 kids 4 of which are fat, children were not that fat 50 years ago. I don't think it is much to do with lack of exercise I think it is the food they're eating.

Again it's responsibility isn't it? It will be everybody else's fault but theirs.

 

[Grendel]

Why shouldn’t we?

Because it doesn’t change a persons actual behaviour it suppresses it. It also can have significant side effects as does the weight loss drugs which can include vomiting, nausea plus worse.

Also how you define who would have a weight loss drug? BMI I assume. So if someone is 2 points under what is the advice. Fill your face with more doughnuts until you are even fatter?

As for the one I know whose on it she’s already moaning she can’t eat a big fry up in the morning - I’m sure that’s going to be used for the next 40 years she may be alive

 

[Nick]

Because it doesn’t change a persons actual behaviour it suppresses it. It also can have significant side effects as does the weight loss drugs which can include vomiting, nausea plus worse.

Also how you define who would have a weight loss drug? BMI I assume. So if someone is 2 points under what is the advice. Fill your face with more doughnuts until you are even fatter?

As for the one I know whose on it she’s already moaning she can’t eat a big fry up in the morning - I’m sure that’s going to be used for the next 40 years she may be alive

BMI is pointless anyway.

I'm not against the injections, if it gives somebody a kick start then it's all good. If people just see it as they don't need to change anything else then it's pointless.

 

[SBT]

Because it doesn’t change a persons actual behaviour it suppresses it. It also can have significant side effects as does the weight loss drugs which can include vomiting, nausea plus worse.

Also how you define who would have a weight loss drug? BMI I assume. So if someone is 2 points under what is the advice. Fill your face with more doughnuts until you are even fatter?

As for the one I know whose on it she’s already moaning she can’t eat a big fry up in the morning - I’m sure that’s going to be used for the next 40 years she may be alive

The NHS already issues all kinds of medicines that suppress behaviours.

Your sneering tone towards the people electing to use this medicine is telling.

 

[Grendel]

The NHS already issues all kinds of medicines that suppress behaviours.

Your sneering tone towards the people electing to use this medicine is telling.

So how would you define who is eligible for a weight loss drug.

I doubt you’ve ever had more than calpol in your life. I’ve had naltrexone- it’s side effects are impossible

What’s telling is you haven’t a clue what you are talking about

 

[SBT]

So how would you define who is eligible for a weight loss drug.

I doubt you’ve ever had more than calpol in your life. I’ve had naltrexone- it’s side effects are impossible

What’s telling is you haven’t a clue what you are talking about

Why are you asking me to do a doctor’s job? You think I’m campaigning for people to be given weight loss drugs with wild side effects for the fun of it?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Why are you asking me to do a doctor’s job? You think I’m campaigning for people to be given weight loss drugs with wild side effects for the fun of it?

I thought it improved their health, not have wild side effects

 

[skybluetony176]

Treating the issues linked to obesity costs the NHS something like £6.5 billion a year and not only adds to NHS waiting times it also keeps people on the waiting lists as often obesity has to be addressed before certain procedures can be implemented.

Surely a weight loss drug supplied by the NHS is a good idea as a preventative medicine to cut down waiting lists and the cost of treatment if obesity is left unchecked.

 

[Nick]

Treating the issues linked to obesity costs the NHS something like £6.5 billion a year and not only adds to NHS waiting times it also keeps people on the waiting lists as often obesity has to be addressed before certain procedures can be implemented.

Surely a weight loss drug supplied by the NHS is a good idea as a preventative medicine to cut down waiting lists and the cost of treatment if obesity is left unchecked.

Again, I don't disagree in some cases.

However, how's it working out just throwing sertraline at people after a 5 minute appointment?

 

[skybluetony176]

Again, I don't disagree in some cases.

However, how's it working out just throwing sertraline at people after a 5 minute appointment?

I don’t think obesity is that difficult of a condition to diagnose. Mk1 eyeball, a tape measure and a set of scales. I’m curious as to why you think it would take longer than 5 minutes to diagnose.

 

[tisza]

Treating the issues linked to obesity costs the NHS something like £6.5 billion a year and not only adds to NHS waiting times it also keeps people on the waiting lists as often obesity has to be addressed before certain procedures can be implemented.

Surely a weight loss drug supplied by the NHS is a good idea as a preventative medicine to cut down waiting lists and the cost of treatment if obesity is left unchecked.

You can get anti-smoking medication on the NHS so treaments to go alongside weight-loss should be covered to a point.
That point being it can't be a lifelong substitute for unhealthy diets and lack of exercise.

 

[Nick]

I don’t think obesity is that difficult of a condition to diagnose. Mk1 eyeball, a tape measure and a set of scales. I’m curious as to why you think it would take longer than 5 minutes to diagnose.

Another one trying hard to miss the point.

 

[skybluetony176]

You can get anti-smoking medication on the NHS so treaments to go alongside weight-loss should be covered to a point.
That point being it can't be a lifelong substitute for unhealthy diets and lack of exercise.

Gluttony requires different treatment to obesity.

 

[skybluetony176]

Another one trying hard to miss the point.

You didn’t answer the question. What makes you think obesity is so difficult to diagnose it takes longer than 5 minutes? Surely answering that question would be making your point.

 

[Nick]

The point is just throwing meds within minutes doesn't work.

Yes, injections will help some on their way to get started and they will change their way of living.

Should they just be put on moujaro for life after 5 minutes with a doctor like they do for sertraline?

 

[tisza]

Gluttony requires different treatment to obesity.

That's probably why "weight specialists" prescribe rather than GPs.

 

[skybluetony176]

The point is just throwing meds within minutes doesn't work.

Yes, injections will help some on their way to get started and they will change their way of living.

Should they just be put on moujaro for life after 5 minutes with a doctor like they do for sertraline?

“The NHS has updated its guidelines for prescribing Mounjaro (tirzepatide) for weight management, effective from June 23, 2025. Adults are eligible if they have a BMI of 40 or more, or 37.5 or more for individuals from Black, Asian, and Minority Ethnic (BAME) backgrounds, and have four or more confirmed diagnoses from a list of specific health conditions. These conditions include Type 2 diabetes, hypertension, dyslipidaemia, cardiovascular disease, and obstructive sleep apnoea. The guidelines also specify who is excluded from taking Mounjaro, including those under 18, pregnant or breastfeeding women, and individuals with a personal or family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma or Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome type 2.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Eligibility Criteria:

• • BMI: A BMI of 40 or higher is generally required.
  • BMI Adjustment for BAME Groups: A lower BMI threshold of 37.5 or higher is applied to individuals from South Asian, Chinese, other Asian, Middle Eastern, Black African, or African-Caribbean ethnic backgrounds.
  • Co-morbidities: A confirmed diagnosis of at least four of the following five conditions:
    • • Type 2 diabetes
      • Hypertension (high blood pressure)
      • Dyslipidaemia (abnormal blood fats)
      • Cardiovascular disease (heart disease)
      • Obstructive sleep apnoea
  • Age: Individuals must be 18 years or older.

Exclusions:

• • Pregnancy and Breastfeeding: Mounjaro is not recommended for pregnant or breastfeeding women.
  • Specific Medical Conditions: Individuals with a personal or family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma (MTC) or Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome type 2 (MEN2) are excluded.
  • Hypersensitivity: Individuals with a known hypersensitivity to tirzepatide or any of its components are not eligible.

Important Considerations:

• • BMI Measurement:
    If your BMI is not documented in your medical records within the last three months, you will need to have it measured by a healthcare professional.
  • Consultation with GP:
    If you believe you meet the criteria, it's crucial to consult with your General Practitioner (GP) to discuss your eligibility and next steps.
  • Medication Review:
    Your healthcare team will monitor your progress and review the ongoing appropriateness of Mounjaro treatment, including dose adjustments and potential discontinuation.
  • Potential Side Effects:
    Be aware that Mounjaro can have potential side effects, and your healthcare team will discuss these with you.
  • Lifestyle Changes:
    Mounjaro is intended to be used alongside diet and exercise.

In essence, the NHS guidelines aim to ensure that Mounjaro is prescribed responsibly to individuals who can benefit most from the medication for weight management, while minimizing potential risks. “



No one is going to get meds for life 5 minutes after walking into a GP. Took 30 seconds on google to find that out.

 

[Nick]

“The NHS has updated its guidelines for prescribing Mounjaro (tirzepatide) for weight management, effective from June 23, 2025. Adults are eligible if they have a BMI of 40 or more, or 37.5 or more for individuals from Black, Asian, and Minority Ethnic (BAME) backgrounds, and have four or more confirmed diagnoses from a list of specific health conditions. These conditions include Type 2 diabetes, hypertension, dyslipidaemia, cardiovascular disease, and obstructive sleep apnoea. The guidelines also specify who is excluded from taking Mounjaro, including those under 18, pregnant or breastfeeding women, and individuals with a personal or family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma or Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome type 2.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Eligibility Criteria:

• • BMI: A BMI of 40 or higher is generally required.
  • BMI Adjustment for BAME Groups: A lower BMI threshold of 37.5 or higher is applied to individuals from South Asian, Chinese, other Asian, Middle Eastern, Black African, or African-Caribbean ethnic backgrounds.
  • Co-morbidities:A confirmed diagnosis of at least four of the following five conditions:
    • • Type 2 diabetes
      • Hypertension (high blood pressure)
      • Dyslipidaemia (abnormal blood fats)
      • Cardiovascular disease (heart disease)
      • Obstructive sleep apnoea
  • Age: Individuals must be 18 years or older.

Exclusions:

• • Pregnancy and Breastfeeding: Mounjaro is not recommended for pregnant or breastfeeding women.
  • Specific Medical Conditions: Individuals with a personal or family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma (MTC) or Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome type 2 (MEN2) are excluded.
  • Hypersensitivity: Individuals with a known hypersensitivity to tirzepatide or any of its components are not eligible.

Important Considerations:

• • BMI Measurement:
    If your BMI is not documented in your medical records within the last three months, you will need to have it measured by a healthcare professional.
  • Consultation with GP:
    If you believe you meet the criteria, it's crucial to consult with your General Practitioner (GP) to discuss your eligibility and next steps.
  • Medication Review:
    Your healthcare team will monitor your progress and review the ongoing appropriateness of Mounjaro treatment, including dose adjustments and potential discontinuation.
  • Potential Side Effects:
    Be aware that Mounjaro can have potential side effects, and your healthcare team will discuss these with you.
  • Lifestyle Changes:
    Mounjaro is intended to be used alongside diet and exercise.

In essence, the NHS guidelines aim to ensure that Mounjaro is prescribed responsibly to individuals who can benefit most from the medication for weight management, while minimizing potential risks. “



No one is going to get meds for life 5 minutes after walking into a GP. Took 30 seconds on google to find that out.

What are you on about now? You just said it would take 5 minutes with some scales.

You can also get paragraphs about anti depressants but you get them thrown at you within a couple of minutes and off you go.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So chronic health conditions aren’t worth treating in your view? What’s the alternative?

Personally I couldn’t care less if someone gets healthy without developing good habits, it’s the outcomes not the process we should care about.

But how do they get healthy without developing good habits? Just because they've lost weight doesn't mean they're healthier.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Again it's responsibility isn't it? It will be everybody else's fault but theirs.

To be fair at that age responsibility falls on the parents, not the kids.

 

[skybluetony176]

What are you on about now? You just said it would take 5 minutes with some scales.

You can also get paragraphs about anti depressants but you get them thrown at you within a couple of minutes and off you go.

I said to diagnose obesity. I never said to come up with a treatment plan. My point stands. No one is being proscribed an obesity medication after 5 minutes which is what you keep insisting is the case.

 

[Nick]

To be fair at that age responsibility falls on the parents, not the kids.

Well yeah of course when it's kids.

 

[Nick]

I said to diagnose obesity. I never said to come up with a treatment plan. My point stands. No one is being proscribed an obesity medication after 5 minutes which is what you keep insisting is the case.

Can you actually read? My point was about throwing Sertaline at people like sweets and how is that working out?

It was you who said "Yeah but you can tell if somebody is fat" within 5 minutes.

What is the actual point of you on here?

 

[skybluetony176]

It was you who said "Yeah but you can tell if somebody is fat" within 5 minutes.

You very obviously can. It’s you who bought up 5 minutes and as you can see from the guidelines what you claimed clearly doesn’t happen simply because it happens against the backdrop of already diagnosed conditions which also didn’t happen after a 5 minute GP consultation. Type 2 diabetes for example takes a GP visit, referral, blood samples being taken, lab work and further consultation. Many processes and lots of time is taken to diagnose type 2 diabetes. Connect that with the very simple to do like a BMI test (minutes if not seconds, it’s an equation based on very few factors). The two things connected is what gets you on diet medication as a supplementary treatment.

 

[Captain Dart]

Treating the issues linked to obesity costs the NHS something like £6.5 billion a year and not only adds to NHS waiting times it also keeps people on the waiting lists as often obesity has to be addressed before certain procedures can be implemented.

Surely a weight loss drug supplied by the NHS is a good idea as a preventative medicine to cut down waiting lists and the cost of treatment if obesity is left unchecked.

Not really, here is a similar situation which results in patients being put on medication for life, a nice little earner for pharma and often sweet benefits for doctors prescribing their products.

The NHS has been supplying insulin since it's inception but more recently it's become more widely known that you can reverse type 2 diabetes and no longer require insulin or metformin pills with dietery changes.

I certainly never questioned the need for and benefits of insulin and glucose reducing drug therapy until maybe 10 years ago, how about yourself?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the basic flawed operations of the NHS.

 

[skybluetony176]

Not really, here is a similar situation which results in patients being put on medication for life, a nice little earner for pharma and often sweet benefits for doctors prescribing their products.

The NHS has been supplying insulin since it's inception but more recently it's become more widely known that you can reverse type 2 diabetes and no longer require insulin or metformin pills with dietery changes.

I certainly never questioned the need for and benefits of insulin and glucose reducing drug therapy until maybe 10 years ago, how about yourself?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the basic flawed operations of the NHS.

My sister has never taken insulin or glucose and she was diagnosed must be 10 years ago with type 2. She had early intervention and lifestyle changes manage her condition without the need for drugs. So yes, I was aware. She also wasn’t obese, the opposite of anything.

This is what happens. Treatments evolve with research and understanding. Like prescribing obesity drugs to cure obesity linked illnesses, like in many cases type 2 diabetes or to be more factual put type 2 into remission so the use of insulin etc isn’t required in many cases. Treating the cause in many cases not the symptoms.

 

[Captain Dart]

My sister has never taken insulin or glucose and she was diagnosed must be 10 years ago with type 2. She had early intervention and lifestyle changes manage her condition without the need for drugs. So yes, I was aware. She also wasn’t obese, the opposite of anything.

This is what happens. Treatments evolve with research and understanding. Like prescribing obesity drugs to cure obesity linked illnesses, like in many cases type 2 diabetes or to be more factual put type 2 into remission so the use of insulin etc isn’t required in many cases. Treating the cause in many cases not the symptoms.

The dietary changes they advise these days are not dissimilar to what doctors used to advise in the early 1900's, then along came the new wonder drug insulin and the best part of 100 years of a methodology relying far too heavily on drug intervention.

I asked Grok.

Before insulin became available what advice did doctors give about managing diabetes type 2?

Before insulin became widely available in the early 1920s, managing type 2 diabetes (then often referred to as non-insulin-dependent diabetes or simply "diabetes") relied heavily on lifestyle interventions, as medical options were limited. Doctors focused on dietary restrictions, weight management, and general health maintenance, based on the understanding that diet and lifestyle significantly influenced the disease's progression. Here’s a concise overview of the advice typically given:

Starvation Diets and Caloric Restriction: Physicians like Frederick Allen, a prominent figure in diabetes management before insulin, advocated for "starvation diets." These involved drastically reducing caloric intake to minimize glucose levels in the blood. Patients were often limited to 500–1000 calories per day, with diets high in fats and low in carbohydrates to prevent glycosuria (sugar in urine). The goal was to reduce metabolic stress on the body and control symptoms like excessive thirst and urination.

Low-Carbohydrate, High-Fat Diets: Doctors recommended minimizing carbohydrate intake, as sugars and starches exacerbated symptoms. Patients were advised to eat foods like meats, eggs, and green vegetables while avoiding bread, potatoes, and sugary foods. Fats were emphasized to provide energy without spiking blood sugar.

Weight Management: Obesity was recognized as a risk factor for worsening diabetes. Doctors encouraged weight loss through controlled eating and, where possible, moderate physical activity to improve the body’s ability to manage glucose.Fasting Periods: Intermittent fasting or prolonged fasting under medical supervision was sometimes prescribed to lower blood sugar levels and give the pancreas a "rest." This was particularly common in severe cases.

Herbal and Alternative Remedies: Some physicians prescribed herbal concoctions or folk remedies, such as extracts from plants like blueberry leaves or bitter melon, though these were largely ineffective and based on anecdotal evidence.

General Health and Hygiene: Doctors emphasized rest, stress reduction, and avoiding infections, as any additional strain on the body could worsen diabetes symptoms. Regular monitoring of urine for sugar was also common to gauge disease control.

These approaches were often harsh and minimally effective, especially for severe cases, and many patients still faced complications like kidney failure, nerve damage, or early death. The discovery of insulin in 1921 revolutionized treatment, particularly for type 1 diabetes, but type 2 management continued to rely heavily on diet and lifestyle until more advanced therapies emerged later in the 20th century.If you’d like, I can search for additional historical details or specific medical texts from that era to provide further context. Let me know!

 

[Nuskyblue]

Treating the issues linked to obesity costs the NHS something like £6.5 billion a year and not only adds to NHS waiting times it also keeps people on the waiting lists as often obesity has to be addressed before certain procedures can be implemented.

Surely a weight loss drug supplied by the NHS is a good idea as a preventative medicine to cut down waiting lists and the cost of treatment if obesity is left unchecked.

Treating the symptom and not the cause is seldom the correct corse imo.