Do you want to discuss boring politics? (14 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not really, here is a similar situation which results in patients being put on medication for life, a nice little earner for pharma and often sweet benefits for doctors prescribing their products.

The NHS has been supplying insulin since it's inception but more recently it's become more widely known that you can reverse type 2 diabetes and no longer require insulin or metformin pills with dietery changes.

I certainly never questioned the need for and benefits of insulin and glucose reducing drug therapy until maybe 10 years ago, how about yourself?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the basic flawed operations of the NHS.

My nan was diagnosed with Type 2 about 30 years ago. She was never prescribed insulin and was told to manage it via diet.

 

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[chiefdave]

As some who has struggled with their weight for a long time some of the stuff being posted in here is laughable and a million miles away from how weight management on the NHS actually works.

Mentioned before on the weight loss thread that my weight ballooned when I had to take medication for cluster headaches following someone piling their car into the back of mine at a red light.

Following that I first asked the doctor for help with my weight in 2010. It has taken until this year to be able to access a tier 4 service. Tier 4 is the level which you will need to be to have any chance of being prescribed injections. At present tier 4, at least in Coventry, will not prescribe injections to anyone but if they did the stage you would be at is essentially a choice between injections or surgery.

To even get to Tier 4 you have to be able to demonstrate that you have exhausted every other option and it hasn't worked. You don't just turn up, talk to someone for 5 minutes, and walk away with injections.

Believe me, as a fatty, there is nothing more soul destroying than seeing endless docu-series, online articles etc highlighting someone who is sat on the sofa eating a packet of doughnuts for breakfast questioning why they can't lose weight while you're spending hours in the gym, spending money on personal trainers, strictly following a diet plan and fuck all is happening. Not to mention unlike any other medical condition everyone is an expert. They are all keen to tell you that you just need to do abc or xyz and the weight will drop off. Clearly not believing you when you tell them you tried that and it did nothing.

There are absolutely fatties who just need to get off their arse and move and sort their diet out. This is not who treatment is aimed at or who will be eligible to receive it.

And let's not let food companies off the hook. There was a doc on the BBC recently where they interviewed people employed by the large food manufacturers quite happily telling you about the millions spent on research to make food more addictive, to make you want more. Now that injections are proving to work for many people what are they spending their money on? Developing new additives that nullify the effects of the medication so they can sell you more food.

 

[Sick Boy]

The point is just throwing meds within minutes doesn't work.

Yes, injections will help some on their way to get started and they will change their way of living.

Should they just be put on moujaro for life after 5 minutes with a doctor like they do for sertraline?

Agree with this but there needs to be the funding to deal with the root of the problem.

 

[Nick]

As some who has struggled with their weight for a long time some of the stuff being posted in here is laughable and a million miles away from how weight management on the NHS actually works.

Mentioned before on the weight loss thread that my weight ballooned when I had to take medication for cluster headaches following someone piling their car into the back of mine at a red light.

Following that I first asked the doctor for help with my weight in 2010. It has taken until this year to be able to access a tier 4 service. Tier 4 is the level which you will need to be to have any chance of being prescribed injections. At present tier 4, at least in Coventry, will not prescribe injections to anyone but if they did the stage you would be at is essentially a choice between injections or surgery.

To even get to Tier 4 you have to be able to demonstrate that you have exhausted every other option and it hasn't worked. You don't just turn up, talk to someone for 5 minutes, and walk away with injections.

Believe me, as a fatty, there is nothing more soul destroying than seeing endless docu-series, online articles etc highlighting someone who is sat on the sofa eating a packet of doughnuts for breakfast questioning why they can't lose weight while you're spending hours in the gym, spending money on personal trainers, strictly following a diet plan and fuck all is happening. Not to mention unlike any other medical condition everyone is an expert. They are all keen to tell you that you just need to do abc or xyz and the weight will drop off. Clearly not believing you when you tell them you tried that and it did nothing.

There are absolutely fatties who just need to get off their arse and move and sort their diet out. This is not who treatment is aimed at or who will be eligible to receive it.

And let's not let food companies off the hook. There was a doc on the BBC recently where they interviewed people employed by the large food manufacturers quite happily telling you about the millions spent on research to make food more addictive, to make you want more. Now that injections are proving to work for many people what are they spending their money on? Developing new additives that nullify the effects of the medication so they can sell you more food.

I'd say the personal trainers were shit in fairness and clearly not working for you. It probably doesn't even need hours in the gym to start making a difference.

If it has been 15 years, the technology and what is around has changed. At this point, is getting Mounjaro online not an option to give you a kick start?

 

[PVA]

Bloke at work is on Mounjaro and has lost 2 stone in about 2 months having previously tried and failed to lose weight (not sure how hard he actually tried).

He tried to get it through the NHS but didn't meet the criteria so gets it online

 

[Captain Dart]

Agree with this but there needs to be the funding to deal with the root of the problem.

The problem is in the supermarkets, they're full of crap.

It takes understanding and a strong will to stay clear of buying foods that cause you to put on weight and raise your blood sugar. Same applies to avoiding snacking behaviour which serves to keep blood sugar raised.

 

[chiefdave]

The problem is in the supermarkets, they're full of crap.

this is worth a watch if you haven't seen it already

Irresistible: Why We Can’t Stop Eating

Chris van Tulleken takes a personal view at why ultra-processed foods are so irresistible and how they have come to dominate food culture.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Nick]

The problem is in the supermarkets, they're full of crap.

It takes understanding and a strong will to stay clear of buying foods that cause you to put on weight and raise your blood sugar. Same applies to avoiding snacking behaviour which serves to keep blood sugar raised.

Just need to write lists and only get that. Or do it online.

 

[tisza]

And let's not let food companies off the hook. There was a doc on the BBC recently where they interviewed people employed by the large food manufacturers quite happily telling you about the millions spent on research to make food more addictive, to make you want more. Now that injections are proving to work for many people what are they spending their money on? Developing new additives that nullify the effects of the medication so they can sell you more food.

Let's face it it's insane. Look at the ingredients on processed foods, drinks etc and 99.9% of people have no idea exactly what they're putting into their bodies in terms of chemicals, additives, preservatives , flavourings etc. you need a food science degree to read the labels. People have no idea what some of these "unnatural" extras could be doing to their bodies, metabolism etc

 

[chiefdave]

Let's face it it's insane. Look at the ingredients on processed foods, drinks etc and 99.9% of people have no idea exactly what they're putting into their bodies in terms of chemicals, additives, preservatives , flavourings etc. you need a food science degree to read the labels. People have no idea what some of these "unnatural" extras could be doing to their bodies, metabolism etc

One doctor gave me a really simple example which has stuck with me. He said think of a cheese and ham sandwich.

When you were a kid the bread would have come from a local bakers, either made onsite that day or overnight locally. If you left it a day or two it started going stale, couple more days it would have mould on it. Same with cheese, few days before it's going hard and has mould on it. The ham would come from a local butcher and you'd probably see him slice it in front of you.

Now you're buying bread that was baked days ago on the other side of the country that you can keep for 2 weeks without any sign of it going stale or mouldy. Cheese lasts in the fridge for weeks if not months. Ham will have a list of ingredients and say things like mechanically recovered or reformed.

The basics of our food have changed massively. His point was that things we've lived on for decades without it being a problem now have so much shit added to them to increase the manufacturers profit margin and nobody gives a shit the effect that has on the consumer.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Just need to write lists and only get that. Or do it online.

Supermarkets of course aren't arranged to make people buy things that they hadn't planned to, so that'll be easy to do.

 

[rob9872]

One doctor gave me a really simple example which has stuck with me. He said think of a cheese and ham sandwich.

When you were a kid the bread would have come from a local bakers, either made onsite that day or overnight locally. If you left it a day or two it started going stale, couple more days it would have mould on it. Same with cheese, few days before it's going hard and has mould on it. The ham would come from a local butcher and you'd probably see him slice it in front of you.

Now you're buying bread that was baked days ago on the other side of the country that you can keep for 2 weeks without any sign of it going stale or mouldy. Cheese lasts in the fridge for weeks if not months. Ham will have a list of ingredients and say things like mechanically recovered or reformed.

The basics of our food have changed massively. His point was that things we've lived on for decades without it being a problem now have so much shit added to them to increase the manufacturers profit margin and nobody gives a shit the effect that has on the consumer.

Where's the fekkin butter?