Sarah Everard (4 Viewers)

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Nick

Administrator
People saying that if one in ten men are wronguns but the other nine do nothing about it, what the fuck do they want me to do? Should I drive round tonight and start laying into any man that happens to be walking close to a woman?

Yet again, you have some people giving it the "If you arent doing anything you are part of the problem".
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
People saying that if one in ten men are wronguns but the other nine do nothing about it, what the fuck do they want me to do? Should I drive round tonight and start laying into any man that happens to be walking close to a woman?

Yet again, you have some people giving it the "If you arent doing anything you are part of the problem".

Don't worry about it. Typical woke nonsense on twitter. Men are by far the most oppressed group in society, especially white men.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Obviously, once they are identified.

which is a typical male response to be honest, dish out violence after the fact to make men feel better about themselves, but the female victim is still dead.
Amongst all the hysteria, which i understand given the nature of the crime, there are people trying to have a sensible debate to try and make things safer for women going forward to prevent this type of crime, you only have to look at some of the responses on here to see that's going to be an uphill struggle.
 

Nick

Administrator
It's this "every man needs to be part of the solution".

Not many people are actually saying what the solution is though or what they want men to do.

Probably have marches around the country or something or a clap at 5PM on a Saturday.

You can't turn the TV on for toxity about everything, of course this is fucking abhorrent but the way things are presented nowadays is that everything is about blaming certain people, taking sides, trying to get a reaction.
 

Nick

Administrator
which is a typical male response to be honest, dish out violence after the fact to make men feel better about themselves, but the female victim is still dead.
Amongst all the hysteria, which i understand given the nature of the crime, there are people trying to have a sensible debate to try and make things safer for women going forward to prevent this type of crime, you only have to look at some of the responses on here to see that's going to be an uphill struggle.

So what are normal men meant to do?

Of course this crime is absolutely horrible, how many people were stabbed around the country yesterday?

How can I make things safer for women at night? I don't follow women for the sake of it, as I have said I have always tried to not seem dodgy but I think the more I do it the more I feel it and probably look it.

Getting a bit fed up of all of the "If you aren't the solution you are the problem" type stuff, I was "racist" last year and now I am conspiring to rape women because I'm not doing anything about it, if you listen to all of the shit over the news, radio, TV etc. (Yes, I know sane people aren't saying that but if you switch the TV on, the radio they go for the extremes)
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
It's this "every man needs to be part of the solution".

Not many people are actually saying what the solution is though or what they want men to do.

Probably have marches around the country or something or a clap at 5PM on a Saturday.

You can't turn the TV on for toxity about everything, of course this is fucking abhorrent but the way things are presented nowadays is that everything is about blaming certain people, taking sides, trying to get a reaction.

there was a simple suggestion put forward regarding crossing the road, (not a solution but just a little thing to help), look at the reaction.
There was a 10 percent increase in the number of women killed by a partner in this country last year, how would you like that statistic presented?
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
It's this "every man needs to be part of the solution".

Not many people are actually saying what the solution is though or what they want men to do.

Probably have marches around the country or something or a clap at 5PM on a Saturday.

You can't turn the TV on for toxity about everything, of course this is fucking abhorrent but the way things are presented nowadays is that everything is about blaming certain people, taking sides, trying to get a reaction.
I really wouldn't worry about it, you've shown you're considerate if you hang back or cross the road as you said, that's all.
 

Nick

Administrator
there was a simple suggestion put forward regarding crossing the road, (not a solution but just a little thing to help), look at the reaction.
There was a 10 percent increase in the number of women killed by a partner in this country last year, how would you like that statistic presented?

Yes it's a statistic but what am I meant to do with it? How many people sell drugs? How many people shoot or stab? I don't do those either.

I have said I crossed the road sometimes anyway or took a different route so I didn't seem dodgy but feel more dodgy trying not to be dodgy.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
So what are normal men meant to do?

Of course this crime is absolutely horrible, how many people were stabbed around the country yesterday?

How can I make things safer for women at night? I don't follow women for the sake of it, as I have said I have always tried to not seem dodgy but I think the more I do it the more I feel it and probably look it.

Getting a bit fed up of all of the "If you aren't the solution you are the problem" type stuff, I was "racist" last year and now I am conspiring to rape women if you listen to all of the shit over the news, radio, TV etc.

probably more people were stabbed so let's ignore this then. You've got a common theme running through your arguments.
Rise for the nurses, I didn't get one.
Woman murdered, bet more people got stabbed yesterday.

It's just ridiculous whatabouttery.
 

Nick

Administrator
I really wouldn't worry about it, you've shown you're considerate if you hang back or cross the road as you said, that's all.

It gets a bit draining, you really can't go on the internet, watch TV or listen to the radio, same with reading news.

It literally needs some sort of Flight Mode for life to stay away from it.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Yes it's a statistic but what am I meant to do with it? How many people sell drugs? How many people shoot or stab? I don't do those either.

I have said I crossed the road sometimes anyway or took a different route so I didn't seem dodgy but feel more dodgy trying not to be dodgy.

maybe there's nothing you can do about it, but not being so dismissive might help.
 

Nick

Administrator
probably more people were stabbed so let's ignore this then. You've got a common theme running through your arguments.
Rise for the nurses, I didn't get one.
Woman murdered, bet more people got stabbed yesterday.

It's just ridiculous whatabouttery.

I am asking what am I meant to do about the statistic about men killing partners?

I was just comparing it to people being stabbed, I don't stab people either but haven't got people saying I am guilty of that just because I'm male.
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
Naturally I cross the road when walking behind a lone female at night? Is it not a natural reaction for a man to do that out of courtesy?
 

Nick

Administrator
maybe there's nothing you can do about it, but not being so dismissive might help.

I'm being dismissive of the narrative that "If you aren't doing anything you are part of the problem" type shite.

You presented a stat about a partner killing women, it's fucking awful. I have no doubt that is down to lockdown too and any form of domestic abuse is disgusting. The stat is given to me like it's my fault just because I'm a man.
 

Nick

Administrator
Naturally I cross the road when walking behind a lone female at night? Is it not a natural reaction for a man to do that out of courtesy?

I overthink stuff like that and probably end up looking even more weird but yeah I have always just done that as if it was holding a door open etc.
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
I do find it odd that all the focus is on the man though when there was a woman that’s been arrested for assisting (to my knowldge)
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
I'm being dismissive of the narrative that "If you aren't doing anything you are part of the problem" type shite.

You presented a stat about a partner killing women, it's fucking awful. I have no doubt that is down to lockdown too and any form of domestic abuse is disgusting. The stat is given to me like it's my fault just because I'm a man.

I don't feel like any of it's my fault so i'm not sure why you would.
But we are part of society and when incidents happen they highlight certain problems that we as a society have. It's no point in burying are heads in the sand and pretending everything's OK.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
I do find it odd that all the focus is on the man though when there was a woman that’s been arrested for assisting (to my knowldge)
He is the one suspected of the actual act though isn’t he so it’s natural focus would be on him.
 

Nick

Administrator
I don't feel like any of it's my fault so i'm not sure why you would.
But we are part of society and when incidents happen they highlight certain problems that we as a society have. It's no point in burying are heads in the sand and pretending everything's OK.

Nobody is saying its OK though.

Because if you watch the news, listen to it, go on the internet it's just being driven that it's a man's problem.

I'm just pointing out there is shit loads wrong with society, multiple people stabbed yesterday in Coventry.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Nobody is saying its OK though.

Because if you watch the news, listen to it, go on the internet it's just being driven that it's a man's problem.

I'm just pointing out there is shit loads wrong with society, multiple people stabbed yesterday in Coventry.

why are you conflating the two issues?
Men killing women is one problem.
People getting stabbed in Coventry is another. One doesn't negate the seriousness of the other.
 

Saddlebrains

Well-Known Member
Do we reckon hes tried topping himself?

Cant be nice knowing his sordid horrible worlds been uncovered amd hes going to be a sexual deviant copper in prison for the rest of time
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Tough conversation.

A bit like me too there’s an obvious issue and an awful lot of nonsense both in support and opposition to resolving it.

For whatever reason we do have two sexes and one overwhelmingly does the violence, and is not coincidentally also much better equipped to dish out said violence. If you include rape as well the obvious biological imbalance is clear. So women have good reason to be scared. Like Louis CK says in his bit, dating for women is like taking a bear on a date. If things go bad they could literally kill you. I don’t think most men truly understand that feeling. I don’t think I’ve ever had a girlfriend who could overpower me and I’m not exactly Arnie.

But equally, statistically men are much more likely to be murdered or physically attacked than women. So it’s a lower chance but likely a higher penalty (again you’re more likely to fight off a man than a woman is).

Problem is human brain doesn’t do how likely it is, it does how scary it is. So no amount of statistics are going to change the fear.

I think there’s a fair argument that if we “good ones” can normalise respectful behaviour, including asking if a girl is OK if she looks like she wants out, crossing the road, not leering and shouting, etc. Then women don’t have to worry quite so much on a daily basis and it’s easier for them to spot the true wronguns.
 
D

Deleted member 4439

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No it is how women say they feel.

I guess you know better fella

Which woman mate? And do you have a problem with guys who feel vulnerable to attack as well?

Patronising women and saying 'there, there, let me walk on the other side of the road', isn't going to cut it. Given that you will never rid society of the few percent of bad un's, then the only answer to man on woman-crime, knife-crime, race-crime, gender-crime, man on man crime, even woman on man crime is more police. All this other talk is just patronising bollocks.
 
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Nick

Administrator
I think there’s a fair argument that if we “good ones” can normalise respectful behaviour, including asking if a girl is OK if she looks like she wants out, crossing the road, not leering and shouting, etc. Then women don’t have to worry quite so much on a daily basis and it’s easier for them to spot the true wronguns.
Yes but then some women may take a bloke approaching to ask if they were OK as harassment....
 

Nick

Administrator
why are you conflating the two issues?
Men killing women is one problem.
People getting stabbed in Coventry is another. One doesn't negate the seriousness of the other.

I was just pointing out a statistic to you, much like you did about the rate of men killing partners as if I was behind it.

There was a 10 percent increase in the number of women killed by a partner in this country last year, how would you like that statistic presented?

I am fully aware there are wronguns, I am fully aware with lockdown there's no doubt that will have increased.

Im far from saying "Women should stay in" and all that shite. I am just saying people going on about how its a problem for men to deal with.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Yes but then some women may take a bloke approaching to ask if they were OK as harassment....

I dont mean a random girl on their own. But if you see a guy cornering a woman or whatever then yeah I think you should ask if she’s OK. I don’t think any reasonable woman would mind that. The specific isn’t the point, but rather the intention to listen to whatever women think would help and see if we can make small changes to make their life better.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
I was just pointing out a statistic to you, much like you did about the rate of men killing partners as if I was behind it.



I am fully aware there are wronguns, I am fully aware with lockdown there's no doubt that will have increased.

Im far from saying "Women should stay in" and all that shite. I am just saying people going on about how its a problem for men to deal with.

but the thread is about violence against women. The statistic I brought up has a bit more relevance than talking about city centre stabbings.
I'm not sure how women can do anything to make themselves feel safer if they don't involve men in the conversation and that means all men unless potential murders and abusers are going to own up and step forward.
 

Nick

Administrator
but the thread is about violence against women. The statistic I brought up has a bit more relevance than talking about city centre stabbings.
I'm not sure how women can do anything to make themselves feel safer if they don't involve men in the conversation and that means all men unless potential murders and abusers are going to own up and step forward.

I was pointing out the way you pointed out that statistic as if it's my fault or I was trying to say it doesn't happen.

It's no longer enough to think something is terrible and not agree with it, it's as if people need to clap when told, go on a march or go through a training programme on demand.
 
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