Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (18 Viewers)

[Astute]

It’s not just me saying it it’s the WHO dude

So they signed in with your name? OK.

 

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[Grendel]

Sadly, they are not.

I just checked all current airborne flights into Heathrow in the world right now. Nearly all of them are passenger flights which are scheduled, including the ones coming from China.

Passenger flights are now being used for freight movement I know someone who works for BA and they still have manned cabin crew but they are using them to transport goods

 

[David O'Day]

Well in any case, how could they charge him as technically it was his lover who broke the law as written.

When has the fact you have not broken a law ever stopped the plod?

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

no one could have gone in to journalism wanting to be as shit at their jobs as they are, what happened to change them?
Anyone who cares about democracy and accountability should be appalled no matter what their political leaning.

Control their purse strings - people still have to live. Lots of wannabe 'journalists out there so if you restrict the job opportunities for those that actually do their job properly in favour of those that just write from whatever angle you want those proper journalists either have to suffer the difficulty of finding publications for their stories and financial hardship for their integrity or tow the line and give them the easy ride. I keep on having to check Kuennesberg is a BBC employee and not govt press officer.

It's truly frightening.

 

[tisza]

Government scared of scrutiny and prefers to play with friendly media even in times of national crisis?

for sure.
That's why they've been indecisive and then followed that by not rigorously enforcing the measures they belatedly put in place.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Passenger flights are now being used for freight movement I know someone who works for BA and they still have manned cabin crew but they are using them to transport goods

There were 18.1 million arrivals into UK passenger terminals- (plane, ferry, land) between January 1st and 22nd March.

Of that 18.1 million, 273 were checked and quarantined.

Whatever is happening now its too late, the damage was already done while we were dithering.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Lots of passenger flights, from all over the place. No controls.

I was wondering why the news wasn't covering this and my thoughts were them being told by some govt official "If you report on this it'll undermine lockdown effectiveness as people will think if they're letting these pople in with no checks/quarantine why and I allowing myself to be stuck inside. This could lead to a second wave and do YOU want to be responsible for that?"

When in reality the people responsible are those letting the people in (and thus a high probability of the virus being spread publicly or even worse a new mutated strain from abroad), not those reporting it.

 

[shmmeee]

There were 18.1 million arrivals into UK passenger terminals- (plane, ferry, land) between January 1st and 22nd March.

Of that 18.1 million, 273 were checked and quarantined.

Whatever is happening now its too late, the damage was already done while we were dithering.

Got to love Tory projection.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I was wondering why the news wasn't covering this and my thoughts were them being told by some govt official "If you report on this it'll undermine lockdown effectiveness as people will think if they're letting these pople in with no checks/quarantine why and I allowing myself to be stuck inside. This could lead to a second wave and do YOU want to be responsible for that?"

When in reality the people responsible are those letting the people in (and thus a high probability of the virus being spread publicly or even worse a new mutated strain from abroad), not those reporting it.

I was just watching Irish news, it said that a guy in France who was admitted for pneumonia on December 27th (before China even notified the WHO of its first case) has since been found to have had COVID-19. So it is now beyond doubt that the virus was circulating in Europe at the back end of 2019. The theory is that this might indicate that we are actually already in the second wave. I have no clue if that theory is realistic or not, but I am guessing it would be good news if so.

French hospital discovers it had case of coronavirus in December

 

[Ring Of Steel]

View attachment 15009

Of that 18.1m, not a single person was screened or checked. Only 4 flights- 3 from Wuhan and 1 from Tokyo were taken straight to quarantine.

Before anyone quibbles over the source of this- they are the government's own figures.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

An interesting read
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...ere-did-britain-go-wrong-20200428-p54o2d.html

"A former Australian high commissioner to Britain, Mike Rann, says crucial mistakes were made right when they had the most damaging impact: "The earliest stages were handled negligently," Rann says. "A shambles of mixed messaging, poor organisation and a complacent attitude that what was happening in Italy wouldn't happen here." (we certainly saw plenty of that on here with the 'would you rather be in Italy' jibes)

Around the world people are highlighting the UK as a case study in how to get it wrong, with the overall tone being speed to react. When taking out the fine details of the plan- lockdown, social distancing etc, you come back to the same conclusion- that it was all done slowly, without clarity, and with a lot of confusion. There is a very clear correlation between speed to react & clarity/ enforcement of instructions and 'success' in controlling. The countries that have done best- no matter what the details were on what they did, they did it fast and efficiently. The countries that have done worst- they acted slowly and with no clear message.

Problem we have had is that not only were we slow out of the blocks & unclear on what the plan was with confusion all over the place- we compounded that with the other issues like PPE, care homes- all of which combined to create a recipe for a massive body count, which will continue for some time yet unfortunately, we lost too much time at the start.

Although it's still way to early to say, the early indicators do look like those places that didn't lockdown quickly or hard are suffering the most. The reason for that - worries of the effect on the economy - so hardly surprising those badly affected are predominantly those will the most extreme capitalist ideologies. Literally putting money ahead of people.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Although it's still way to early to say, the early indicators do look like those places that didn't lockdown quickly or hard are suffering the most. The reason for that - worries of the effect on the economy - so hardly surprising those badly affected are predominantly those will the most extreme capitalist ideologies. Literally putting money ahead of people.

And in doing so ending up with a massive cull of money and people. A harsh lesson which we will sadly fail to learn from.

 

[wingy]

I fear you may be right. I'll stop sort of suggesting it is intentional to use the excuse our health system can't cope, but even so the US are one of the few places that have (thus far) to have dealth with it even worse than we have.

So to potentially put the health service on the table to a country whose system has been even worse than ours is just ridiculous.

We really do need to consider stepping away from the 'special relationship' (by which I largely men abusive and one way) a little bit, and especially so if Trump is re-elected and make new ones that are more progressive.

How about a Boston Coffee Party if Trump gets back in? Go to Lincolnshire and dump a load of Americano into the Wash?

I think we're going to need to be really careful with whom we pick as friends in the playground .
The broader the choice the better .

 

[David O'Day]

Dom, come on I'm interested to find out why Friday being a bank holiday has anything to do with anything

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

erm because maybe its bank holiday?

Don't really see that much of a significance given so many people are furloughed at home anyway and most shops are shut. Gotta be rather stupid to think "it's a bank holiday so let's all go out/go to the seaside on our extra day off" when it's no different to any other day.

IMO if you're working from home if possible I'd just continue working like any other day at the moment and have another day to have off in lieu later on. I admit there are many people that don't have that option.

 

[chiefdave]

Of that 18.1m, not a single person was screened or checked. Only 4 flights- 3 from Wuhan and 1 from Tokyo were taken straight to quarantine.

Before anyone quibbles over the source of this- they are the government's own figures.

Heathrow CEO has told a Commons select committee today that they are going to start trialling temperature checks in one terminal (T2) from next week. Its a joke how far behind everyone else we are.

 

[djr8369]

we're a million miles away from emulating what they're doing in South Korea unfortunately and it's highly unlikely we'll ever get there.

Yup, this. It worries me long term about how we are going to manage this.

 

[chiefdave]

I thought it was a much better performance from Ikea Starmer today if I'm honest.
Though he wasn't up against much. Don't think Johnson properly answered one question and eventually, as you say, got goaded into setting another unachievable target on testing.

When all this is done and we start Brexit negotiations we're going to get absolutely rinsed with this mob in charge.

Very clear from his performance today why he does his best to avoid PMQs. Without a friendly crowd and being able to palm questions off onto others he was like a rabbit in the headlights.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think we're going to need to be really careful with whom we pick as friends in the playground .
The broader the choice the better .

I agree. Sadly those in charge will continue to cosy up to America (and to a lesser extent people like Saudi Arabia and China) and ignore those with a more holistic approach to society.

 

[chiefdave]

And if you want to link it to politics etc- here it is. We got it wrong at the start. And that is the very time that The Spectator, The Telegraph etc along with some people on here, the brexit-obsessed government & 'scientific experts' were all sneering about how the "Europeans have got it wrong", looking down their noses at Italy, slagging off the Chinese, telling everyone that 'Britain Knows Best' and pushing an isolationist approach. Look how fucking wrong they were.

Can't help but wonder if it is coincidence that on the day Vallance and Davies were saying we were too slow to ramp up testing and that has impacted our response Ferguson gets thrown under the bus. Suspicions that aren't calmed by the fact it was the Daily Telegraph and Spectator that stuck the knife in.

Given some of the views of the advisors in No. 10 there is that nagging doubt in my mind whether or not the care home thing could have been intentional.

Are we really doing much different to when Johnson suggested we let it work through the country? We've had a minimal lockdown and appear to be preparing to open things back up when there's still a significant number of new cases and deaths daily and we still don't have testing, PPE etc issues resolved.

 

[wingy]

I don't get why any announcements can't be put in front of parliament tomorrow .
What data elements to it are so critical when nothing of significance could change between one day to the next.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Heathrow CEO has told a Commons select committee today that they are going to start trialling temperature checks in one terminal (T2) from next week. Its a joke how far behind everyone else we are.

A TRIAL? Of a TEMPERATURE CHECK? (which is useless if the person is asymptomatic) At ONE terminal? Over SIX WEEKS after lockdown? Utter joke.

This should be something we can control quite well. They have to go through border control so while there get details, intended travel plans etc. They could even enforce isolation if they'd wanted on public health grounds. If a country doesn't like it then ban flights from that country. If you've got people abroad to bring home charter flights specifically for them - not like there isn't spare runway capacity at the moment even without considering the use of RAF bases.

If one person on a flight has a tempature is everyone on that flight then going to be forced to isolate in case? Because in a closed plane environment (especially long haul and where air is recycled rather than fresh pumped in) it's as close to a pox party as you could get.

 

[David O'Day]

I don't get why any announcements can't be put in front of parliament tomorrow .
What data elements to it are so critical when nothing of significance could change between one day to the next.

It's so he can send Hancock or raab to the commons on Monday and he gets to announce but not face the questions

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[skybluetony176]

What? What's Friday got to do with anything?!?

Doing it Sunday gives them an extra couple of days to hope a solution accidentally falls in their lap.

 

[chiefdave]

This should be something we can control quite well. They have to go through border control so while there get details, intended travel plans etc. They could even enforce isolation if they'd wanted on public health grounds. If a country doesn't like it then ban flights from that country. If you've got people abroad to bring home charter flights specifically for them - not like there isn't spare runway capacity at the moment even without considering the use of RAF bases.

Have a mate who is Australian. He was working in the US but has returned home. Upon arrival it was straight into mandatory government 14 day quarantine. Everyone gets the same treatment irrespective of if anyone on the flight has symptoms or a high temperature. Non citizens aren't allowed in the country at all.

Last day I can find figures for in Australia is 2 days ago, 26 new cases and 1 death.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Have a mate who is Australian. He was working in the US but has returned home. Upon arrival it was straight into mandatory government 14 day quarantine. Everyone gets the same treatment irrespective of if anyone on the flight has symptoms or a high temperature. Non citizens aren't allowed in the country at all.

Last day I can find figures for in Australia is 2 days ago, 26 new cases and 1 death.

Yep we could and probably should have done the same. I admit I didn’t realise this at the time though

 

[wingy]

I do wonder .
When the time is right.
Whether the incumbent Gov't of the day.
Will have to own this .
As Labour has 2008.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Passenger flights are now being used for freight movement I know someone who works for BA and they still have manned cabin crew but they are using them to transport goods

Yes you are correct, there are now passenger planes being used for cargo specifically.

However, there are still a core amount of flights coming in even today from China (as an example), which are scheduled daily services.

With no one being checked it is a total joke.

 

[Grendel]

Yes you are correct, there are now passenger planes being used for cargo specifically.

However, there are still a core amount of flights coming in even today from China (as an example), which are scheduled daily services.

With no one being checked it is a total joke.

China is virus free isn’t it?

 

[djr8369]

So, with Ferguson being forced to resign and Hancock saying it’s a matter for the police when can we expect Robert Jenrick to resign and the police to visit Stanley Johnson?

Amazed nobody is pushing them on this point but I haven't seen a thing?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Politics in the UK needs a complete overhaul.

Whilst I do doubt some figures from countries like Germany and Sweden, we do look to be at the but end of this virus well and truly. It's a fucking disgrace.

Our lockdown doesn't differ that much from many other countries, but it seems to me we are trying to plug the bath whilst there is a hole in the side of it.

Why the fuck are planes landing with no passenger checks? This is the same narrative that aggravates the UKIP crew and it's easy to see why they get a platform. We have no control over our borders. Might as well say welcome to Great Britian - country of complete mugs.

The tories are fucking useless and not fit for purpose, whilst labour are continuously rejected by the electorate. Both of them need fucking off or a complete overhaul.

I've fucking had enough.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

China is virus free isn’t it?

Water also isn't wet.

 

[shmmeee]

Amazed nobody is pushing them on this point but I haven't seen a thing?

Probably too busy writing up Mildred from Hemel Hempstead’s question on whether lockdown will affect her allotment planting this year, or a cute puff piece on how baby Wilfred is already burbling shite just like his Dad.

 

[fernandopartridge]

There were 18.1 million arrivals into UK passenger terminals- (plane, ferry, land) between January 1st and 22nd March.

Of that 18.1 million, 273 were checked and quarantined.

Whatever is happening now its too late, the damage was already done while we were dithering.

Assume that 273 is that flight load that was transported up to the Wirral on 30th January, another PR stunt?

 

[MusicDating]

UK finds itself almost alone with centralized virus contact-tracing app that probably won't work well, asks for your location, may be illegal