You couldn’t make it up!!

[skybluetony176]

But said the other week we should all rinse our dishes. How does that reconcile with a 5 Star holiday in Costa Rica?

Doesn’t Costa Rica plant enough trees every year deliberately to off set the carbon footprint of tourism to the country? If that’s right her holiday was carbon neutral. Sure I remember reading that some time ago.

 

[Grendel]

I thought the argument these days was to not pre-rinse because you waste loads more water?

You are trying to skirt the argument - you stated they are looking at governments and not individuals but she advises individuals yet I dont see her advising people to jet to Costa Rica and stay in a luxury retreat?

 

[skybluetony176]

I thought the argument these days was to not pre-rinse because you waste loads more water?

I think it’s pre-rinse and then use the eco setting. Lower water consumption and electricity use overall than using a longer/intense setting.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You are trying to skirt the argument - you stated they are looking at governments and not individuals but she advises individuals yet I dont see her advising people to jet to Costa Rica and stay in a luxury retreat?

I think you're conflating her individually with the organisation. XR protests aren't about people not rinsing plates.

TBH I've found a lot of the XR protests quite perplexing. The stopping trains running really seems like a daft thing to do as it stopped loads of people using it who ended up in taxis or on buses which are way worse and caused congestion and james. Seemed like they were disadvantaging people who were doing more to help. Even stopping traffic short term doesn't work. Just leads to congestion and extended journeys as people have to take diversions.

It does come across at times as people who just want to be a pain in the arse.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think it’s pre-rinse and then use the eco setting. Lower water consumption and electricity use overall than using a longer/intense setting.

Right.

I think maybe I was thinking of those who don't use a dishwasher.

 

[shmmeee]

I think it’s pre-rinse and then use the eco setting. Lower water consumption and electricity use overall than using a longer/intense setting.

No it’s don’t pre-rinse at all. Pre-rinsing messes up the dirt sensor on dishwashers and is a waste of time and water.

 

[shmmeee]

I think you're conflating her individually with the organisation. XR protests aren't about people not rinsing plates.

TBH I've found a lot of the XR protests quite perplexing. The stopping trains running really seems like a daft thing to do as it stopped loads of people using it who ended up in taxis or on buses which are way worse and caused congestion and james. Seemed like they were disadvantaging people who were doing more to help. Even stopping traffic short term doesn't work. Just leads to congestion and extended journeys as people have to take diversions.

It does come across at times as people who just want to be a pain in the arse.

XRs belief is that government action needs to be taken and that the most effective way of getting government to take action is direct disruptive protest. They base this on research of social movements that have been effective and generally they revolve around direct action in capital cities that are disruptive enough to force governments to take action.

They aren’t telling people to do anything, they believe it’s a waste of time (they’re probably right on that).

Meanwhile fossil fuel companies have realised they can’t legitimately pretend climate change isn’t happening ot it’s not humans fault any more so they are focusing efforts on convincing people to do pointless shit like not rinsing plates or eating less meat so that real actions such as banning ICE cars, reducing heating requirements in buildings and legislating on carbon output aren’t taken.

itsabatch and friends are useful idiots who are playing along. You’ll have to ask them why.

XR is also a flat structure with a set of guidelines (focus on direct action being the main one), but each group is independent and basically does what they want.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

XRs belief is that government action needs to be taken and that the most effective way of getting government to take action is direct disruptive protest. They base this on research of social movements that have been effective and generally they revolve around direct action in capital cities that are disruptive enough to force governments to take action.

They aren’t telling people to do anything, they believe it’s a waste of time (they’re probably right on that).

Meanwhile fossil fuel companies have realised they can’t legitimately pretend climate change isn’t happening ot it’s not humans fault any more so they are focusing efforts on convincing people to do pointless shit like not rinsing plates or eating less meat so that real actions such as banning ICE cars, reducing heating requirements in buildings and legislating on carbon output aren’t taken.

itsabatch and friends are useful idiots who are playing along. You’ll have to ask them why.

XR is also a flat structure with a set of guidelines (focus on direct action being the main one), but each group is independent and basically does what they want.

I just think that they're inconveniencing the wrong people.

If you want to get governments/businesses to make changes then directly disrupt them. If it doesn't directly affect them they don't care.

Do you think Johnson gives a fuck if people are being stopped from getting on the tube or whatever? Blockade him so they can't get out to shag another of his birds and he'll be putting forward legislation within the hour.

 

[shmmeee]

I just think that they're inconveniencing the wrong people.

If you want to get governments/businesses to make changes then directly disrupt them. If it doesn't directly affect them they don't care.

Do you think Johnson gives a fuck if people are being stopped from getting on the tube or whatever? Blockade him so they can't get out to shag another of his birds and he'll be putting forward legislation within the hour.

Not sure how you’d do that.

Here’s the paper if you’re interested, it focuses mostly on mass mobilisation and non violence rather than specific targets but several examples given are about shutting down infrastructure.

https://www.belfercenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/files/IS3301_pp007-044_Stephan_Chenoweth.pdf

I’m not a massive XR fan, but their points are valid and something has to be done. Feels a lot like the BLM protests where everyone’s a critic and no one can offer a better solution.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not sure how you’d do that.

Here’s the paper if you’re interested, it focuses mostly on mass mobilisation and non violence rather than specific targets but several examples given are about shutting down infrastructure.

https://www.belfercenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/files/IS3301_pp007-044_Stephan_Chenoweth.pdf

I’m not a massive XR fan, but their points are valid and something has to be done. Feels a lot like the BLM protests where everyone’s a critic and no one can offer a better solution.

I agree this issue is a pressing one and something needs to be done. I also accept that targeting specific individuals with power is problematic but maintain it would be more effective that doing things that affect normal everyday people (which often has the opposite effect of just pissing people off and turning them against you). I'm not suggesting any kind of violence towards these individuals, just inconvenience them.

Those in power get things done when it directly affects them. Otherwise they'll happily drag their feet. Complain to the council about someone dumping rubbish by your house and you'll probably have to wait ages and have to follow it up before stuff gets done. Dump it outside a councillors house and it'll be gone in the blink of an eye.

 

[shmmeee]

I agree this issue is a pressing one and something needs to be done. I also accept that targeting specific individuals with power is problematic but maintain it would be more effective that doing things that affect normal everyday people (which often has the opposite effect of just pissing people off and turning them against you). I'm not suggesting any kind of violence towards these individuals, just inconvenience them.

Those in power get things done when it directly affects them. Otherwise they'll happily drag their feet. Complain to the council about someone dumping rubbish by your house and you'll probably have to wait ages and have to follow it up before stuff gets done. Dump it outside a councillors house and it'll be gone in the blink of an eye.

More likely you’ll get arrested.

What civil rights protests have done as you suggest out of interest? I can’t think of any.

Support for the environment as an issue is at an all time high so I’m not sure it is turning people off. What happened the other year forced the govt to try draconian measures of banning all protest in London which was widely condemned. They also got their first demand accepted by govt IIRC.

 

[Ian1779]

She told people the other week to rinse plates before putting them in the dishwasher didnt she?

Wasn’t that advice from the government?

Anger as Johnson’s Cop26 spokesperson Allegra Stratton suggests ‘not rinsing dishes’ to tackle climate crisis

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

More likely you’ll get arrested.

What civil rights protests have done as you suggest out of interest? I can’t think of any.

Support for the environment as an issue is at an all time high so I’m not sure it is turning people off. What happened the other year forced the govt to try draconian measures of banning all protest in London which was widely condemned. They also got their first demand accepted by govt IIRC.

Suffragettes. Deliberately targeted MP's and did stuff that inconvenienced them like sending things through the post (including themselves). Was alied to more general protest as well and arguably neither are the reason they got their way in the end (more likely WWI and woman being used for factories/farming proving they were just as capable as men).

Support for the environment is big and getting bigger. Support for XR is nowhere near the same levels. For me it's "I support the cause but not you. You're annoying". Mind you I'm like that with quite a few things, including BLM and Labour.

 

[shmmeee]

Suffragettes. Deliberately targeted MP's and did stuff that inconvenienced them like sending things through the post (including themselves). Was alied to more general protest as well and arguably neither are the reason they got their way in the end (more likely WWI and woman being used for factories/farming proving they were just as capable as men).

Support for the environment is big and getting bigger. Support for XR is nowhere near the same levels. For me it's "I support the cause but not you. You're annoying". Mind you I'm like that with quite a few things, including BLM and Labour.

They also did a bombing campaign and attacked infrastructure…

Suffragette bombing and arson campaign - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Whatever you think of Extinction Rebellion, putting the sound up on this makes it feel like thousands of people are being massacred.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They also did a bombing campaign and attacked infrastructure…

Suffragette bombing and arson campaign - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You didn't ask if it was their only tactic though...

 

[SomersetSB]

They will be back teaching soon so they’ll have something to do.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Even if this were some big gotcha moment (it isn't) and it meant they were a huge hypocrite and should get to fuck it invalidates nothing.

Climate change is real and we need to take drastic steps for it to stop.

Fucking mugs out here killing the planet to own the libs.

 

[SBT]

 

[Skybluefaz]

You couldn't make it up.

 

[skybluetony176]

You couldn't make it up.

They clearly do, as they go along.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Wetherspoons apologises after beer hit by lorry driver shortages

Wetherspoons has issued an apology after Carling and Coors Light ran out on tap amid lorry driver shortages.

www.standard.co.uk

You couldn't make it up.

 

[Marty]

Wetherspoons apologises after beer hit by lorry driver shortages

Wetherspoons has issued an apology after Carling and Coors Light ran out on tap amid lorry driver shortages.

www.standard.co.uk

You couldn't make it up.

Cheap foreign labour suppressing the wages of British workers in a dangerous job with dreadful work conditions. About time the big firms started paying drivers what they're worth and then maybe they'd be able to attract people into that industry.

 

[skybluetony176]

Cheap foreign labour suppressing the wages of British workers in a dangerous job with dreadful work conditions. About time the big firms started paying drivers what they're worth and then maybe they'd be able to attract people into that industry.

What do we do in the meantime?

 

[Marty]

What do we do in the meantime?

Go without.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Cheap foreign labour suppressing the wages of British workers in a dangerous job with dreadful work conditions. About time the big firms started paying drivers what they're worth and then maybe they'd be able to attract people into that industry.

It's been the same with driver shortages across Europe. Something something brexit.

 

[Grendel]

It's been the same with driver shortages across Europe. Something something brexit.

Don’t.Diss.The.Tonester

Driver shortage is pan-European | coldchainnews.com

Bath, UK: The logistics industry has been warning about driver shortages for many years but a combination of Covid-19, Brexit and the ongoing structural issues restricting the supply of drivers has brought us to a crisis point. In the UK there is a shortfall of at least 76,000 drivers. Across...

www.globalcoldchainnews.com

 

[Tommo1993]

Have been told to expect a rise starting this month, but the company I work for (a globally well known one) is still so far behind the curve with regards to drivers pay and conditions.

 

[clint van damme]

It's been the same with driver shortages across Europe. Something something brexit.

It's not even just Europe its worldwide, but Brexit is definitely a contributing factor as to why 100k of the 400k European vacancies are in the UK.

 

[clint van damme]

Have been told to expect a rise starting this month, but the company I work for (a globally well known one) is still so far behind the curve with regards to drivers pay and conditions.

Good for you mate . Hopefully be a couple more to follow giventhe current climate.

 

[Grendel]

It's not even just Europe its worldwide, but Brexit is definitely a contributing factor as to why 100k of the 400k European vacancies are in the UK.

the link I’ve provided says it’s about the same as Germany and the German shortage will be exceeding the U.K. in tbe future

 

[clint van damme]

the link I’ve provided says it’s about the same as Germany and the German shortage will be exceeding the U.K. in tbe future

I think that article underestimates the number of uk vacancies by about a quarter, though its right to say the haulage industry were warning this would happen years ago.

Brexit definitely a factor but one of many, the cracks started appearing before the referendum.

 

[Grendel]

I think that article underestimates the number of uk vacancies by about a quarter, though its right to say the haulage industry were warning this would happen years ago.

Brexit definitely a factor but one of many, the cracks started appearing before the referendum.

If it’s a factor then that must mean we are very good wages compared to other countries like Germany and France? Also surely it means cross border demand post Brexit hasn’t really been impacted as vacancies remain?

 

[Tommo1993]

Good for you mate . Hopefully be a couple more to follow giventhe current climate.

I’ll believe it when I see it in writing dude. I asked them if it’s because they’re panicking, they assure me not. A pick up in wages probably isn’t the answer but it’s a start I guess. They still need to equal the benefits and conditions between administrative staff and drivers. You’ve got pertemps offering free license acquisition but they’ll trap you in a two year contract. But I still credit them as it’s the getting started which is the expensive bit. I went through what’s basically a broker to get my license, very big mistake. Paying about 3 times what it’s worth.

 

[JAM See]

Wetherspoons apologises after beer hit by lorry driver shortages

Wetherspoons has issued an apology after Carling and Coors Light ran out on tap amid lorry driver shortages.

www.standard.co.uk

You couldn't make it up.

Project beer!