Woodlands

[stupot07]

The buildings to the right of the stadium... are they school building or residential? Still being used? I don’t know the area.

School buildings, no idea if they are still being used.

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[RoboCCFC90]

School buildings, no idea if they are still being used.

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I don’t think any of the old houses or blocks are being used at the moment Stu.

 

[Nick]

Maybe they can make it like Luton so you have to go through the old houses to get into the ground?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I mean re: funding, is there land to build a retail site and a training ground with a stadium? Could It be like the Ricoh and selling of a chunk of land to Tesco? They paid 60 million, that would fund a stadium surely?

 

[torchomatic]

Much needs to be explained though. You can't take any of these chancers at their word.
Especially gven that we've heard so many different stories over the years, why only 3 months ago the Ricoh was plan A & there was no plan B.

Fair enough, but let's give the Council a chance to explain themselves.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Les needs to do his homework better. The highways agency wouldn’t allow it full stop and it would never get planning permission as the local residents would delay the application so long we’d up be pushing up Daisy’s by the time it was approved.

So they would also block a new housing estate build as well then??

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I mean re: funding, is there land to build a retail site and a training ground with a stadium? Could It be like the Ricoh and selling of a chunk of land to Tesco? They paid 60 million, that would fund a stadium surely?

I believe something like this is possible, I don’t know HDW if you’d been to original White Hart Lane, but there was barely any space there. Now they’ve funded their new stadium through building 200+ houses and a supermarket.

With the space available at Woodlands I could hypothetically see something similar in order to generate funding to build the stadium.

 

[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

I mean re: funding, is there land to build a retail site and a training ground with a stadium? Could It be like the Ricoh and selling of a chunk of land to Tesco? They paid 60 million, that would fund a stadium surely?

Iirc the Tesco deal didnt cover the entire cost of the Ricoh, it certainly contributed a big proportion of it though. I think the main issues around the Woodlands site would be the suitability of a large scale development and whether the roads could take the traffic.

 

[CCFC88]

as would it if the council want to build houses on it! so its just another excuse by the council

The coucil have it earmarked for educational purposes though don't they? Who said anything about housing?

 

[CCFC88]

15 minute walk

No chance, its over a mile and a half away

 

[Grendel]

Iirc the Tesco deal didnt cover the entire cost of the Ricoh, it certainly contributed a big proportion of it though. I think the main issues around the Woodlands site would be the suitability of a large scale development and whether the roads could take the traffic.

The road and traffic arguments - same as when any other ground is mentioned is a smokescreen really.

Look at banner lane which had to cope with Massey Ferguson and browns lane when it was jaguar. The huge housing estate from the windmill to Pickford green will have around 30,000 occupants and a shopping centre and industrial occupancy

 

[fernandopartridge]

Let's give both parties the opportunity to prove themselves. Council engage with them and let's see as a minimum an application for outline planning permission by the start of next season

 

[Liquid Gold]

Do you reckon before the Ricoh people were mad at the idea of all the traffic on these couple of roads to a gasworks.

If you’re expecting more people you build more infrastructure, not difficult.

 

[chiefdave]

The coucil have it earmarked for educational purposes though don't they? Who said anything about housing?

Believe it is education and sporting so that wouldn't be an issue.

It was Cllr Maton, when he was the council chair of planning, who first mentioned housing on that site.

 

[ajsccfc]

People are underestimating the infrastructure around that site. I used to play in the Powerleague and after a while we ended up attracting a bumper crowd of people who really needed a laugh on a Monday night.

 

[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

The road and traffic arguments - same as when any other ground is mentioned is a smokescreen really.

Look at banner lane which had to cope with Massey Ferguson and browns lane when it was jaguar. The huge housing estate from the windmill to Pickford green will have around 30,000 occupants and a shopping centre and industrial occupancy

I take your point, ive no idea whether its likely to be approved or not but there will be differing levels of support/objection for different sites. Woodlands looks quite residential which would be my biggest fear, im not a planner though.

 

[chiefdave]

But the fucking council need to grow some balls and put this to the test, call their bluff to prove it. Someone has to blink first, we're the football equivalent of brexit.

Could not agree with this more. Pressure should now be on the council to either clearly state why this is a non starter or to do a deal similar to the one they have with Wasps for car park C at the Ricoh.

They have given Wasps an 18 month license there in which time they don't have to pay a penny but have an agreement they can purchase the lease upon approval of a planning application.

Absolutely no reason they can't do the same for the club and then there is a definite time frame which SISU have to work to.

Then put pressure on Wasps to agree a short term deal to cover the time frame.

All done on the basis that legal action will be dropped at a certain point, lets says when planning permission is granted and the lease option taken up.

Lets put an end to all the bickering and move forward on that basis. Things will then come to a conclusion one way or another. Either there is a new stadium and the legals dropped or SISU have to admit it is all a bluff.

 

[Grendel]

I take your point, ive no idea whether its likely to be approved or not but there will be differing levels of support/objection for different sites. Woodlands looks quite residential which would be my biggest fear, im not a planner though.

Again though residents have no say at all in such matters. They never have - there may be protests but in the end it’s ignored

I don’t it will happen but I can’t see one supporter having an issue with locality

There would be ample room for large parking spaces and traffic management systems to get people in and out.

It’s not an especially busy road network away at weekends

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Pressure should now be on the council to either clearly state why this is a non starter

Problem is, with all these sites, there'll always be perfectly rational reasons why they're a non-starter. And many of those reasons will apply to any site we can come up with. Those reasons don't have to rule a site out, but can. Point being, it wouldn't take CCC long to come up with plausible reasons why a site's not worth pursuing, so the question's a bit redundant.

What we *really* need to know, is who would be responsible for funding the development, such as infrastructure, to enable such a site to work. I suspect this is what SISU have in mind... and I suspect it's something CCC would have no intention of doing. As budgets are pushed, they usually hope the developers fund infrastructure improvements as part of the deal.

So... impasse.

But that's what we need to styart discussing really - the practicalities. How many conditions are there, and are they (intentionally?) unreasonable?

 

[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

Again though residents have no say at all in such matters. They never have - there may be protests but in the end it’s ignored

I don’t it will happen but I can’t see one supporter having an issue with locality

There would be ample room for large parking spaces and traffic management systems to get people in and out.

It’s not an especially busy road network away at weekends

Yeah as a fan i'd not have an issue with the site, protests etc might slow things up (which could be a big problem) but if the council back it id imagine it would inevitably come to pass if funded. It will be interesting to see if any party confirms the story now.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

If it gets confirmed then surely the ricoh discussions will open up???

Sisu said about the new stadium land and a deal to stay at the ricoh while its being built! Thankfully things finally look to be coming to a head

 

[Liquid Gold]

Could not agree with this more. Pressure should now be on the council to either clearly state why this is a non starter or to do a deal similar to the one they have with Wasps for car park C at the Ricoh.

They have given Wasps an 18 month license there in which time they don't have to pay a penny but have an agreement they can purchase the lease upon approval of a planning application.

Absolutely no reason they can't do the same for the club and then there is a definite time frame which SISU have to work to.

Then put pressure on Wasps to agree a short term deal to cover the time frame.

All done on the basis that legal action will be dropped at a certain point, lets says when planning permission is granted and the lease option taken up.

Lets put an end to all the bickering and move forward on that basis. Things will then come to a conclusion one way or another. Either there is a new stadium and the legals dropped or SISU have to admit it is all a bluff.

That would be the sensible thing to start breaking the impasse. I feel that the council are reluctant to have another stadium in the city though as if their Wasps project goes pop they have a massive white elephant at the Ricoh and they'll be picking up the costs.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Just a few articles that might help people understand process etc

Legalities of building a new football stadium - InBrief.co.uk

Planning for stadiums: A sporting chance

Also there is this which is a general blueprint for a stadium build

https://assets.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2013/11/blueprint-successful-stadium-development.pdf

From what i have seen there are few stadiums that go from interest to completion in under 5 years it is usually longer than that. Which could be an issue if nothing can be agreed at the Ricoh.

Question am i right in thinking Councils usually ask for a contribution to infra structure? That will add to the cost but will also be a potential problem

 

[olderskyblue]

It’s not an especially busy road network away at weekends

Are you sure about that? Hasn't there been many issues with the junction with the A45 causing traffic hold ups, including week ends?

I think it used to work better before the "improvements".. Maybe that would be part of the infrastructure issues and costs.

 

[Captain Dart]

Iirc the Tesco deal didnt cover the entire cost of the Ricoh, it certainly contributed a big proportion of it though. I think the main issues around the Woodlands site would be the suitability of a large scale development and whether the roads could take the traffic.

True there was a £20m hole in finance, largely due to :
a) CCFC messing up land deal, giving land to contracors to cover costs they were unable to meet who then pulled out of project and charged a premium to the council to purchase the land so they could complete the Arena.
b) Massive decomtamination costs, somewhat more than originally estimated.

From Arena construction report (free to download from council web site).

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The coucil have it earmarked for educational purposes though don't they? Who said anything about housing?

Well if they haven't learned anything from past dealings with SISU, maybe they will on this if it is true

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[quinn1971]

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Could not agree with this more. Pressure should now be on the council to either clearly state why this is a non starter or to do a deal similar to the one they have with Wasps for car park C at the Ricoh.

They have given Wasps an 18 month license there in which time they don't have to pay a penny but have an agreement they can purchase the lease upon approval of a planning application.

Absolutely no reason they can't do the same for the club and then there is a definite time frame which SISU have to work to.

Then put pressure on Wasps to agree a short term deal to cover the time frame.

All done on the basis that legal action will be dropped at a certain point, lets says when planning permission is granted and the lease option taken up.

Lets put an end to all the bickering and move forward on that basis. Things will then come to a conclusion one way or another. Either there is a new stadium and the legals dropped or SISU have to admit it is all a bluff.

I don't think Councils can simply block a planning application based on a vindictive basis. So any application would need to be considered, & a reasoned response for granting or refusing provided..."Only if they drop the legals first" wouldn't stand up in Court - which is exactly where SISU would take if they did so

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[quinn1971]

View attachment 11883

 

[chiefdave]

View attachment 11883

I had a look last night and I can't find anywhere on the council website that shows cabinet approval. Can you point me in the right direction.

Given the time the council have been claimed to be sat on this proposal from the club, something the council haven't denied, I sincerely hope they aren't stalling until they can get an alternative plan together that prevents the site being used for a stadium.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Let's not play stupid and pretend the council couldn't make things very difficult for the club if they wanted to. 6 weeks for an email reply wasn't it?

 

[Nick]

Let's not play stupid and pretend the council couldn't make things very difficult for the club if they wanted to. 6 weeks for an email reply wasn't it?

There was overdrive of "The council can't block things" but nobody answers when it's pointed out they could make things very difficult.

Will expect there to be a rise over the next few days of that sort of thing. I wonder what the response time was to Wasps with the Higgs?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

I had a look last night and I can't find anywhere on the council website that shows cabinet approval. Can you point me in the right direction.

Given the time the council have been claimed to be sat on this proposal from the club, something the council haven't denied, I sincerely hope they aren't stalling until they can get an alternative plan together that prevents the site being used for a stadium.

Of course the council wouldn't do such a thing

 

[oldskyblue58]

Only stuff i can find

Exciting plans for former Woodlands site | Coventry City Council

http://democraticservices.coventry....roposal for the use of the Woodlands Site.pdf

The £18million plan to transform former Coventry school site

 

[Magwitch]

What pisses me off as desperation kicks in reality disappears and I can’t believe sisu haven’t if they are serious haven’t done oodles of homework and I can’t believe have chosen this site, there’s just about every negative possible,
listed buildings,
Poor infrastructure
Poor public transport
Poor parking,

The road and traffic arguments - same as when any other ground is mentioned is a smokescreen really.

Look at banner lane which had to cope with Massey Ferguson and browns lane when it was jaguar. The huge housing estate from the windmill to Pickford green will have around 30,000 occupants and a shopping centre and industrial occupancy

You cannot seriously compare Masseys and it’s traffic with a new stadium first there was a huge car park at the back of the plant and obvious there were two rush hours day and lorry traffic but that grew over time from before the war, starting when there were few cars. Eastern Green estate didn’t exist intil the 70s, I remember that being fields right through to Allesley.
I’m not anti a new stadium and I don’t care where it is so long as it’s inside Cov. All I want is a proposal that’s for real not just words. There’s been over a year to develop plans, designs, who is building it and timescale. I suspect the EFL will want that too.
In fairness to sisu they didn’t announce this themselves when they do I expect some meat in the bones.