Which would you prefer ? (1 Viewer)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The alternative is for sisu to crush acl which you advocate and get the stadium on the cheap, which will result in sisu selling the stadium at a big profit without any regard to the club or sell the club and rent the stadium to the club for a large fee of maybe £1.2 million to recoup their investment?

The club has existed for 126 years approx not 3 centuries but you would be the 1st to nitpick over facts and figures to justify yourself

but now strangely quiet in a glass house

Not at all.

I said we existed over 3 centuries, founded in 1883, the 19th century, we've existed through the 20th century, and we still exist, in the 21st century, 3 centuries. besides, ive said that was a joke and the fact you're using this against me is weak, at best. :facepalm:

I don't advocate the crushing of ACL, I want us to get a better deal on the rent. Any deal to buy the stadium would be in CCFC's name, not SISU's, furthermore, ACL wont go bust and the Council won't sell their share anyway.

If SISU buy the stadium, for say, 20m (that's bargain cheap) and rent it to Cov for 1.5m a year, including the money invested into the stadium, they'd be in 60+m in the red, it'd take approx 40 years to break even?

When they could probably get CCFC promoted to the prem in at least half that time and get 40m a year in TV money AND would be able to buy the stadium, they'd be making massive profits.

As long as the club is safeguarded in any deal to buy the RICOH, I don't care how we get it.

 

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[skybluelee]

The latter.

Good post btw.

Given that everybody agrees play offs and promotion doesn't that make the original post a waste of time and not 'good'?

 

[Otis]

Aye, promotion has to be priority. In fact, if it happened to the prem the year after the likelihood of SISU going then would be even greater as they'd probably make their money back.

Obviously, this.

Getting promoted will make us a much more attractive proposition to any would by investors.

 

[Otis]

Given that everybody agrees play offs and promotion doesn't that make the original post a waste of time and not 'good'?

Doesn't seem rather odd.

Who doesn't want promotion?

 

[oldskyblue58]

SBT £40m additional income is only half the story ....... what about the additional wages and costs that comes with promotion? What about the investment in players to get there in the first place (year after year if it doesnt happen first opportunity)...... Currently owe £47m to SISU what will it be by the time we get promoted from L1 let alone Championship?. What about the annual investment required to stay there? Nothing in previous SISU investments suggests they hang on for the long term ...... let alone very long term as could well be the case in banking on promotion. Have they got that sort of money from their investors to bet on a chance of two quick promotions ? Would their clients gamble that much on what is a slim chance ?

 

[sky blue john]

Sky blue taylor you seem very gullible to think that if sisu get their hands on the stadium it will stay in ccfc name. Do you not realize that ccfc existing assets are already under Arvo. So the likelyhood of it staying under ccfc is very slim.

 

[mattylad]

play offs for me

 

[oldskyblue58]

surely we all want the team to succeed first and foremost ?

That is the only thing we can actually help with

 

[craigus12]

if anyone even considers the administration option then they aren't ccfc fans

 

[ajsccfc]

Sky blue taylor you seem very gullible to think that if sisu get their hands on the stadium it will stay in ccfc name. Do you not realize that ccfc existing assets are already under Arvo. So the likelyhood of it staying under ccfc is very slim.

You can't call someone gullible because they don't believe your hypothesis.

 

[skybluesteve76]

Is this a serious question? FFS! Promotion every day off the week. If SISU go who's gonna take over? Don't tell me, a mega rich Arab oil baron!

 

[rupert_bear]

Grieves me to say but getting SISU out of our club has to be the priority, apart from their first few months here when they allowed Coleman to sign a few they have put nothing into the team, just sold and sold, the evidence is clear to see. Despite Fisher's "we have changed" statement they still haven't put anything into the team or likely too. No matter what you think re. the rent being too high SISU are jeopadising our existence by refusing to pay any rent and remember they ain't paying a bean at the moment despite having been offered a 67% reduction and time (10 years) to pay any arrears. If i thought promotion would alter SISUs policies nobody would be happier than me at the moment though all i see is their continued presence at my club a serious threat to our future as a football club.

As much as it hurts me to say if it means staying in this awful division one more season but seeing the back of these charletons that would be a price worth paying. As for the question who comes in ? my answer to that is who could do worse.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ Cloughie, and Oldskyblue58
Top posts guys.

Skybluelee..Wrong m8, not everybody agrees with promotion under SISU....SBTaylor...You say Cloughie "Using the 3 centuries against you being weak"..Why say it in the first place!
Everyone has their own opinion on SISU, and mine is "The sooner they've gone the better!":facepalm:

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Sky blue taylor you seem very gullible to think that if sisu get their hands on the stadium it will stay in ccfc name. Do you not realize that ccfc existing assets are already under Arvo. So the likelyhood of it staying under ccfc is very slim.

If it wasn't in CCFC's name the council would veto any deal.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Given that everybody agrees play offs and promotion doesn't that make the original post a waste of time and not 'good'?

Now it looks like everyone wants playoffs, but there are others who I thought would've said SO rather than promotion.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

craigus12..

Some of us have "Values", and who the fuck are you to tell me I'm not a CCFC fan! I probably pay MORE in following CCFC than you could even dream about paying out:jerkit:

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

SBT £40m additional income is only half the story ....... what about the additional wages and costs that comes with promotion? What about the investment in players to get there in the first place (year after year if it doesnt happen first opportunity)...... Currently owe £47m to SISU what will it be by the time we get promoted from L1 let alone Championship?. What about the annual investment required to stay there? Nothing in previous SISU investments suggests they hang on for the long term ...... let alone very long term as could well be the case in banking on promotion. Have they got that sort of money from their investors to bet on a chance of two quick promotions ? Would their clients gamble that much on what is a slim chance ?

I did have this in mind when making my post.

If we are running 'better', the increase in wages would mean nothing our revenue would cover that.

We never know, if we sign McG and a couple of others (after getting promoted) we may be able to mount a promotion because we have the momentum factor.*

*before this post is taken out of context, Norwich and S'hampton didn't have the 2nd best teams in the Championship, but got promoted because they had a really good manager at the time. For the record, if we got promoted we'd probably come about 16th.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

@ Cloughie, and Oldskyblue58
Top posts guys.

Skybluelee..Wrong m8, not everybody agrees with promotion under SISU....SBTaylor...You say Cloughie "Using the 3 centuries against you being weak"..Why say it in the first place!
Everyone has their own opinion on SISU, and mine is "The sooner they've gone the better!":facepalm:

I said it as a joke because the previous poster before me said decades for a good manager. The point was, "have we ever had good owners?", I'm no club historian, and only know about the years I've supported the club, but at a guess, I'd say no, we haven't. The centuries 'gag' was because we've existed through 3 centuries: 19th, 20th, 21st. I was punching fun at that, not being serious :facepalm:

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ SBTaylor..

The point is, you were trying to be clever by saying 3 centuries, and when Cloughie pulled you up on it, you tried to make him look a fool.
One more thing.. to "Exist Through" 3 centuries, you have to complete "3 centuries", and when I went to school, that would be 300 years!:facepalm:

 

[craigus12]

craigus12..

Some of us have "Values", and who the fuck are you to tell me I'm not a CCFC fan! I probably pay MORE in following CCFC than you could even dream about paying out:jerkit:

i hope the sky blue coffin is comfy whilst you're watching AFC Cov at the Butts

 

[ajsccfc]

You don't have to complete something to exist through it. If I was born in 1979 and didn't die before 1980 I'd have existed through the 70s.

If I told you I existed through the entire 70s, you'd expect a 42-year old however.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

@ SBTaylor..

The point is, you were trying to be clever by saying 3 centuries, and when Cloughie pulled you up on it, you tried to make him look a fool.
One more thing.. to "Exist Through" 3 centuries, you have to complete "3 centuries", and when I went to school, that would be 300 years!:facepalm:

I never said we completed more than one century.

I never tried to make him look a fool, I thought the post I made would've been took as a joke, obviously I was wrong. In fact, I took it as Cloughie trying to make me look a fool.

I never stated 3 centuries, I said how many centuries since our last good owners, as a light-hearted joke, not to be taken seriously.

 

[TommyAtkins]

Play offs, promotion

But also:

A win in the JPT and a stadium deal. All of which would confirm SISU as one of the best owners this club ever had

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ TommyAtkins..

Seems you're very easily pleased m8

 

[oldskyblue58]

This makes interesting reading

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/premier-league-accounts-profit-debt I think it was Blackpool Birmingham and Wolves that went down - spending 40m on wages doesnt seem to guarantee anything although WBA survived and have prospered since (but read a report that their wage bill is significantly up this season).

But applying those figures to SISU's situation even if CCFC get to the premiership the only way SISU get their money back is going to be based on stadium ownership. So question is do they put more money in, cover losses, buy players and hope to get two promotions in a short time leaving their related investments at probably £60m + then get their money back on the drip by taking money out of CCFC OR do they say enough money spent already and we take our return on the ground OR a mix of both.

My money is still on them cashing in based on getting hold of the RICOH ....... assuming ACL cant fight them off, and ACL might just do that ........ and if ACL do then where does the club go from that ?

 

[TommyAtkins]

"So question is do they put more money in, cover losses, buy players"

I doubt if SISU will ever find any more investors willing to gamble on CCFC. In addition, I wonder what ACL and the Council would say if enough money was found to sign McGoldrick (and others) whilst the rent remains unpaid.

 

[Sick Boy]

Grieves me to say but getting SISU out of our club has to be the priority, apart from their first few months here when they allowed Coleman to sign a few they have put nothing into the team, just sold and sold, the evidence is clear to see.

I am no fan of SISU but that is utter bollocks.

 

[skybluesteve76]

They seem to have given Robins a decent enough budget for this league!
If Mcgoldrick doesn't come back it will be because of his agent and him, not the club.
Leon Clarke has been signed as a partner or replacement so that proves they have learnt there lesson from last season.
I also believe they have got the money to pay the rent!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

This makes interesting reading

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/premier-league-accounts-profit-debt I think it was Blackpool Birmingham and Wolves that went down - spending 40m on wages doesnt seem to guarantee anything although WBA survived and have prospered since (but read a report that their wage bill is significantly up this season).

But applying those figures to SISU's situation even if CCFC get to the premiership the only way SISU get their money back is going to be based on stadium ownership. So question is do they put more money in, cover losses, buy players and hope to get two promotions in a short time leaving their related investments at probably £60m + then get their money back on the drip by taking money out of CCFC OR do they say enough money spent already and we take our return on the ground OR a mix of both.

My money is still on them cashing in based on getting hold of the RICOH ....... assuming ACL cant fight them off, and ACL might just do that ........ and if ACL do then where does the club go from that ?

If I didn't make it clear, I'm sorry.

I said owning the stadium alone wouldn't make them profit, but getting to the prem AND owning the stadium makes big profit.

I don't think ACL will go under, they've made enough profit from the ownership to take this years' hit. A deal will be made IMO.

Anyway, if all else fails, ACL will get their way in the courts.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Sisu got us to League 1 after 5 years in charge-- the fact is we are now in a much weaker position in terms of revenue and strength on the pitch than when they took over. Talk of 'Premiership' under Sisu is therefore somewhat laughable. They blew whatever investment they had and any significant new investment is very unlikely. [and dont forget we have 6 loan players].
Let's hope we can scrape a promotion and they sell us off to someone with some new investment.

 

[Paxman II]

I'm not convinced by some of the arguments here. Remember life is a bit of a gamble at times and not for the cautionary tale of an accountants advice. SISU bought in as a gamble to a certain degree. They knew what it was about with Ranson. Its gone a little pear shaped but you can come back from that...look at Southampton, Norwich and before them Manchester City! Its about momentum at the club, the right dynamics in place etc etc. Presently we look to be getting that on track rapidly? Robin's is the ideal man and we compete top end in this league so I would not consider it a slim chance of promotion but a pretty real one within 2 seasons.
Then the momentum could carry that forward to the prem and big pay days. Being in business is about taking risk...logical and risky ones.
SISU's best chance is getting us up through the leagues and see where it takes you. The stadium is a side issue that will come into play later as we gain those promotions and benefit all. They need a deal on it and the council and ACL etc need to help find one. It won't be found in the courts.
SISU know when their backs are to the wall you play hard ball and so would I for my interest. Their interest equates to CCFC interest. There are many ways to skin a cat remember...just one step at a time.

 

[valiant15]

If you seriously think we will go flying up the prem with these clowns in charge then Your'e seriously deluded. The highest we finished in the championship with this lot in charge was 17th. We'd be more like peterborough. It takes investment&ambition to get to the prem. Sisu have neither.

 

[CCFC_Charlie]

If you seriously think we will go flying up the prem with these clowns in charge then Your'e seriously deluded. The highest we finished in the championship with this lot in charge was 17th. We'd be more like peterborough. It takes investment&ambition to get to the prem. Sisu have neither.

But could you not say that what we have seen from SISU so far this season shows a degree of both investment and ambition?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

If you seriously think we will go flying up the prem with these clowns in charge then Your'e seriously deluded. The highest we finished in the championship with this lot in charge was 17th. We'd be more like peterborough. It takes investment&ambition to get to the prem. Sisu have neither.

I don't think, it's a scenario.

You call it "deluded", me and OSB, pragmatic.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I'm not convinced by some of the arguments here. Remember life is a bit of a gamble at times and not for the cautionary tale of an accountants advice. SISU bought in as a gamble to a certain degree. They knew what it was about with Ranson. Its gone a little pear shaped but you can come back from that...look at Southampton, Norwich and before them Manchester City! Its about momentum at the club, the right dynamics in place etc etc. Presently we look to be getting that on track rapidly? Robin's is the ideal man and we compete top end in this league so I would not consider it a slim chance of promotion but a pretty real one within 2 seasons.
Then the momentum could carry that forward to the prem and big pay days. Being in business is about taking risk...logical and risky ones.
SISU's best chance is getting us up through the leagues and see where it takes you. The stadium is a side issue that will come into play later as we gain those promotions and benefit all. They need a deal on it and the council and ACL etc need to help find one. It won't be found in the courts.
SISU know when their backs are to the wall you play hard ball and so would I for my interest. Their interest equates to CCFC interest. There are many ways to skin a cat remember...just one step at a time.

Well said Pax.