Wasps downward spiral... (5 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

You can think it as much as you want and I'd never do it but a certain section of our crowd are fickle.

With no morals , backbone , standards or loyalty

 

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[Evo1883]

Have they gone under or left yet ?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I didn't, you tied yourself up in knots which I admit I found pretty funny.

You are smart enough. It was pretty clear from my follow up posts that I was insinuating he went to both and claimed he was only there for the right reasons.

Your follow up posts prove my theory though really. You don't have an issue with cov fans watching wasps, fine. That's on you and your own morals. Just don't use it as a tag on for the strange issues you've had with me.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Read this thread. People are just writing garbage without actually reading what I am saying.

My beef is that someone who frequently comments on financial stuff, which leans quite apologetically towards wasps in many circumstances, abandoned CCFC for a significant amount of time. Not that this on its own is particularly shocking, but he was going to watch wasps instead. He also went to a wasps game when there was a ccfc protest at the same time and tried to make himself look like a superfan by attending it.

No one on here is denying that he went to the wasps game, they just keep repeating that he was at the protest, which I have been agreeing with the whole time.

This is a bit of a bizarre angle to take on someone who hasn't stopped writing on here about CCFC even in that L2 season. Surely if he were going to 'abandon' the club it would have been the season before truth be told

 

[Skybluefaz]

You are smart enough. It was pretty clear from my follow up posts that I was insinuating he went to both and claimed he was only there for the right reasons.

Your follow up posts prove my theory though really. You don't have an issue with cov fans watching wasps, fine. That's on you and your own morals. Just don't use it as a tag on for the strange issues you've had with me.

Yep, I'll carry on watching the City and that will do me.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

This is a bit of a bizarre angle to take on someone who hasn't stopped writing on here about CCFC even in that L2 season. Surely if he were going to 'abandon' the club it would have been the season before truth be told

It isn't bizarre. He stopped going to ccfc games and switched it with wasps instead.

I don't agree with it, but I would have a higher level of respect for someone if they at least admitted it.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I wish a few more had attended that protest...

 

[Grendel]

There has been a feeling that OSB has in his previous posts over the last few years had a slight lean towards London wasps. I’ve bowed to his financial expertise but people I know have shook at the state of wasps accounts.

I’m not saying OSB is a wasps die hard but I do feel deep down he doesn’t align to the 99% of Coventry tax payers who don’t want London wasps in the city.

Most taxpayers couldn’t care less or even know they are here

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It isn't bizarre. He stopped going to ccfc games and switched it with wasps instead.

I don't agree with it, but I would have a higher level of respect for someone if they at least admitted it.

How do you know for a fact he stopped going to City games?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

How do you know for a fact he stopped going to City games?

Brighton, please read my above posts.

One of my relatives knows him personally.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Brighton, please read my above posts.

One of my relatives knows him personally.

I read the last few pages and didn't see that anywhere. If so, fair enough, but it seems a bit random raking him over the coals for it a few years after the event.

 

[chiefdave]

This thread has taken a weird turn. Anyway in the fantasy land of Wasps supporters they are blaming the low crowds on the club not giving out as many free tickets. Bit odd as when people used to claim they were giving out loads of free tickets they denied it.

Not much mention of the accounts form their fans other than to claim that were it not for covid everything would now be fantastic and they'd be sat back counting their millions.

 

[clint van damme]

bit weird people calling out OSB, and even f he did watch wasps, (which I'm fairly sure he didn't that day), he did turn up, and it would have been good if a few more did.

 

[Grendel]

bit weird people calling out OSB, and even f he did watch wasps, (which I'm fairly sure he didn't that day), he did turn up, and it would have been good if a few more did.

Its very weird to be honest

 

[NorthernWisdom]

he did turn up, and it would have been good if a few more did.

Just to get up to two football teams in numbers would have been a start!

Small aims, and all that.

 

[Otis]

I wish a few more had attended that protest...

Is this the same protest I was at?

If it was, I do hope I didn't go to the Wasps game too.

 

[lifeskyblue]

I think OSB posts on the finances have been way ahead of anyone else’s. That some interpret that as a leaning to Wasps might just be that anything perceived as positive to them is seen as support for them. To have someone give a non-biased expert opinion unpalatable to CCFC or not is always welcome.


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[Sick Boy]

I may be wrong but I’m sure he was revealed as being connected to one of the parties involved in one of the court cases.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Interesting set of tabs open there.

I hope the NHS one is not too serious.

Hmm, yes, I spotted my error this morning and scroll down to see your post. Deleted it of course. The NHS is doing a tour of my body. I'm a fittish bloke as I do 5 hours exercise a week but the last 3 months have been a bit of a head scratch.

 

[Warthog]

Soooooo

who does everybody fancy?

Mollie King and Matty Godden

 

[Flying Fokker]

If he's been putting the door handles up there no wonder there's problems!

..My mrs threatened it if I don't change the front door handles from gold to chrome! Search 'The Unexplained Podcast' by Howard Hughes. Interesting incident at Burton Dassett Hills in 1923 and in Wales only 5 years ago.

 

[FulltimeWum]

Cheer up you lot.

 

[Grendel]

I think OSB posts on the finances have been way ahead of anyone else’s. That some interpret that as a leaning to Wasps might just be that anything perceived as positive to them is seen as support for them. To have someone give a non-biased expert opinion unpalatable to CCFC or not is always welcome.


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the attack seems to almost be to put him off putting his analysis on here

The losses don’t seem in the year to be as extreme as you’d expect.

 

[duffer]

Steady, gents, steady. I'd confidently challenge anyone here to a 'who hates Wasps the most' competition, but this all feels unnecessarily personal.

Could we just back to hammering the stripy bastards for the obvious crap they've pulled and let the other stuff go for a bit maybe?

I can't see that it adds much to the argument, especially when it's a 'he said she said' kind of thing with no real evidence either way.

Just a suggestion...

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I can't see that it adds much to the argument, especially when it's a 'he said she said' kind of thing with no real evidence either way.

Ultimately, you have to take what people say about themselves on trust really. Why, after all, would anybody lie about their own personal circumstances, and what they have done?

 

[Grendel]

Ultimately, you have to take what people say about themselves on trust really. Why, after all, would anybody lie about their own personal circumstances, and what they have done?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

To be clear, I mean why would OSB lie? He says he went to the protest (he did) and he says he went home after. He has nothing to gain from making something up really, as the protest was always about just come and show your opposition to CCFC not playing at the Ricoh, from whatever perspective of whose fault it is.

I mean, maybe if we'd had more than 21, it might have looked like people were bothered!

But what can I take from this, other than he's telling the truth? It's the path to madness if we assume anything vaguely personal is made up, even on a message board. Nobody gains from that, really.

 

[Grendel]

To be clear, I mean why would OSB lie? He says he went to the protest (he did) and he says he went home after. He has nothing to gain from making something up really, as the protest was always about just come and show your opposition to CCFC not playing at the Ricoh, from whatever perspective of whose fault it is.

I mean, maybe if we'd had more than 21, it might have looked like people were bothered!

But what can I take from this, other than he's telling the truth? It's the path to madness if we assume anything vaguely personal is made up, even on a message board. Nobody gains from that, really.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Make your own minds up on the Wasps finances. I have done the following summary

Heading	Detail	Year 2021	Year 2020	Year 2019
Turnover
Wasps	Rugby	8.6m	8.9m	14.8m
ACL	Rents	3.2m	3.1m	5.1m
IEC	Events & Hospitality	1.3m	9.4m	14.6m
total		13.1m	21.4	34.5m
Grants Received		949k	1.2m	0
Wages
Total remuneration		10.8m	13.5m	14.3m
employees	Playing & Coaching	61	62	58
	Other	206	242	193
Gross Profit		3.3m	4.5m	8.7m
Operating loss		6.2m	5.6m	5.1m
Revaluation Surplus or (deficit)	Premiership shares	3.687m	0
CVC share				16.8m
Depreciation		2.1m	2.4m	2.3m
Finance costs		3.7m	4m	3.8m
Tax adjustment		(0.5m)	(1.3m)	1.1m
Revaluation of lease after tax		(1.2m)	2.5m	7m
Total losses after revaluations		6.3m	13.7m	3.4m
Total Fixed Assets		80.3m	70.6m	73.4
Which include
Assets revalued new value	Prem shares	17.6m	13.7m	13.7m
	Long lease	52.4m	48.5m	52m
Assets purchased
	Assets under construction He	4m
	other	0.3m	0.9m	1.9m
Current Assets	Stock, debtors,bank etc	5.5m	4.5m	9.5m
Total Assets		85.8m	75.1m	82.8m
Liabilities
Loans and borrowing	Bond	35.2m	33.8m	33.8m
	Director	18.3m	18.3m	18.3m
	other	8.6m	4.5m	0.6m
	Total	62.1m	56.6m	52.7
Other creditors		50.1m	41.1m	39m
Total liabilities		112.2m	97.6m	91.7m
Balance Negative balance		26.4m	22.5m	8.9m
Cash flow for year		+917k	(10.4m)	+6.5m
Rugby Club profit or (loss) not inc ACL or IEC		(3.9m)	(8.8m)	6.2m
Total Wages to Total turnover %age		82.4%	63.1%	41.4%

My own comments
They remain as i have said repeatedly for years a basket case.
Results are better than I expected but they are still making big losses
Refinancing will not be a given, but they do have a substantial fixed asset which could be mortgaged at less than 70% of value . Covid and track record not helped that. It wont be an easy place though.
Turnover has been hit but what surprised me was the rugby income level being maintained despite no crowds
They have been cutting the payroll
The revaluation of the Premiership share is not a valuation they control.
Richardson has not put more money in to the club in the last 3 years
My opinion I still dont see them going bust unless the refinance fails, the need to refinance hasnt suddenly arisen
My opinion I still dont see them moving back down south - why spend all that money on training ground £4m+ if thats the plan
2021/22, CCFC returned, first full year of CBS sponsorship, Events back, hotel open - you can make your own conclusions on that and whether that changes the Wasps financial position

Not going to say more

 

[stupot07]

I think the rugby turnover maintaining despite decreasing attendances, really highlights that the attendances are flooded by freebies, so their rely on sponsorship and tv money which remains relatively static.

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[FulltimeWum]

Did you look at the penultimate box? The rugby team is making a huge loss.

 

[olderskyblue]

Stop being respectful to me if you like

Yes, everyone else has…

 

[olderskyblue]

Brighton, please read my above posts.

One of my relatives knows him personally.

You sure your uncle knows him, not me??

 

[Philosorapter]

"Refinancing will not be a given, but they do have a substantial fixed asset which could be mortgaged at less than 70% of value. "

My opinion I still dont see them going bust unless the refinance fails, the need to refinance hasnt suddenly arisen

Substantial fixed asset: I'm failing to see what this is meant to be.

I am sure what was sold was rights to run the Arena and not ownership of the ground.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Substantial fixed asset: I'm failing to see what this is meant to be.

I am sure what was sold was rights to run the Arena and not ownership of the ground.

A 250 year lease is as good as owning it.