USSR invades Ukraine. (6 Viewers)

Hertsccfc

Well-Known Member
Russia have been for years declaring Ukrainian territory as Russian and when invading the much disputed Crimea I can’t remember a peep from you about that or other attempts to take over Donbass

Hitler had armed himself to the hilt and was preparing for a conquest of Europe - he also operated in an era where certain other nations had dictators with equal dubious intent

We have no formal treaty or legal obligation to Ukraine

NATO didn’t then exist - there was not a huge committed military alliance of nations who are signed up to protect each other

Hitler didn’t have nuclear weapons

The US had zero interest in Hitler - they have most certainly a huge interest in Mr Putin

Putin and his army is weak and has no capacity for a European invasion

China in economic strategic and political terms was non existent then and most certainly isn’t now

I think you are sitting in the 1930’s the only threat to global peace is if we actively defend a non NATO country which would open up a huge can of worms and potential dangers
So some similarities and some differences, which is hardly surprising considering the events are over 80 years apart. He didn't say they were the same.

So on your comments:

Nazi Germany had been declaring parts of Czechoslovakia were German and indeed they contained a majority of ethnic Germans.

We are now also living in an era of very dubious dictators, including in the region of the conflict.

What was the treaty obligation we had to act in relation to Czechoslovakia?

I accept Nato and nuclear weapons points.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
So some similarities and some differences, which is hardly surprising considering the events are over 80 years apart. He didn't say they were the same.

So on your comments:

Nazi Germany had been declaring parts of Czechoslovakia were German and indeed they contained a majority of ethnic Germans.

We are now also living in an era of very dubious dictators, including in the region of the conflict.

What was the treaty obligation we had to act in relation to Czechoslovakia?

I accept Nato and nuclear weapons points.

none of the others you’ve omitted to reference
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Russia have been for years declaring Ukrainian territory as Russian and when invading the much disputed Crimea I can’t remember a peep from you about that or other attempts to take over Donbass

Hitler had armed himself to the hilt and was preparing for a conquest of Europe - he also operated in an era where certain other nations had dictators with equal dubious intent

We have no formal treaty or legal obligation to Ukraine

NATO didn’t then exist - there was not a huge committed military alliance of nations who are signed up to protect each other

Hitler didn’t have nuclear weapons

The US had zero interest in Hitler - they have most certainly a huge interest in Mr Putin

Putin and his army is weak and has no capacity for a European invasion

China in economic strategic and political terms was non existent then and most certainly isn’t now

I think you are sitting in the 1930’s the only threat to global peace is if we actively defend a non NATO country which would open up a huge can of worms and potential dangers

So long story short you are still in the 'let him crack on with it' camp. Could have just said so.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
So long story short you are still in the 'let him crack on with it' camp. Could have just said so.

Can you deal with each of my points rather than act like a child?
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Can you deal with each of my points rather than act like a child?

Acting like a child? It's a comparison made by the head of our own army. No, of course it isn't identical. But if you can't see some overlap you're (again) being wilfully contrarian. The proposal that some of Ukraine which is argued to be 'ethnically Russian' be handed over to Russia to pacify Putin is similar to the rationale behind the Munich agreement. That's about all that's been said.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I don't know how strong Putin's army is relative to Nazi Germany's so didn't comment.

Accept China point.

But the argument was there were similarities not that they are the same.

Its 1.5 million
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I did. And you didn't address his list if similarities

Are you his dad? Can’t he answer for himself? I’ll let him answer thanks if you think Putin is going to invade anywhere else I think you are an idiot let’s see what your baby has to say
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
with respect as @fernandopartridge has said the comparison is embarrassing with Nazi germany. I left a long list of evidence and you didn’t address any of it!
Are you his dad? Can’t he answer for himself? I’ll let him answer thanks if you think Putin is going to invade anywhere else I think you are an idiot let’s see what your baby has to say

Good grief. Is the head of the army also an embarrassment for having called it a '1937 moment'? I mean your take of 'let Putin crack on with it' is the most embarrassing anyone has made on this topic.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Are you his dad? Can’t he answer for himself? I’ll let him answer thanks if you think Putin is going to invade anywhere else I think you are an idiot let’s see what your baby has to say
When you say anywhere else do you mean anywhere else other than Georgia, Moldova and the 2 incursions into Ukraine?
 

Hertsccfc

Well-Known Member
Are you his dad? Can’t he answer for himself? I’ll let him answer thanks if you think Putin is going to invade anywhere else I think you are an idiot let’s see what your baby has to say
I have no idea whether he is going to invade anywhere else. In my view only an idiot thinks they know.

I just agree with BSB that there are some similarities, but it's not the same.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Good grief. Is the head of the army also an embarrassment for having called it a '1937 moment'? I mean your take of 'let Putin crack on with it' is the most embarrassing anyone has made on this topic.

so you haven’t said that Putin will if allowed a share of Ukraine look to invade elsewhere? You haven’t said that? Your comparison is stupid and ignorant - you seem to think he’s going to invade us. He won’t just relax
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
so you haven’t said that Putin will if allowed a share of Ukraine look to invade elsewhere? You haven’t said that? Your comparison is stupid and ignorant - you seem to think he’s going to invade us. He won’t just relax

I namechecked Moldova and Georgia. Both have pro-Russian separatist regions, in Georgia's case already on the Russian border and in Moldova's case also on the border if Ukraine falls. Neither are NATO members either.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I namechecked Moldova and Georgia. Both have pro-Russian separatist regions, in Georgia's case already on the Russian border and in Moldova's case also on the border if Ukraine falls. Neither are NATO members either.

You said the old soviet states

 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
You said the old soviet states


Which does not necessarily have to be by conquest e.g. the puppet he has in Belarus
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
So he can make Poland a puppet state - how?

Let's see how he gets on conquering Ukraine first. Again, at the same time you said 'let Putin crack on with it'.

You're always avoiding comment on that one-do you agree that would have been an error?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
It’s a little like an abortion discussion I was having on a Christian group with a right wing extremist nut job

All grendel is saying is that this stops with negotiation why not try it

All bsb and herts are saying is there are similarities with nazi germany and to be fair so is the head of the British army, he is probably saying that as he’s eyeing up an increase in funding and more recruits but he’s still said it

Both are correct is my point
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
It’s a little like an abortion discussion I was having on a Christian group with a right wing extremist nut job

All grendel is saying is that this stops with negotiation why not try it

All bsb and herts are saying is there are similarities with nazi germany and to be fair so is the head of the British army, he is probably saying that as he’s eyeing up an increase in funding and more recruits but he’s still said it

Both are correct is my point

Pretty much. The main difference is I don't see a negotiation with a concession of territory being the end. After all Crimea was tacitly given up by the West and the invasion still came 8 years later, likely only delayed by Covid
 

Hertsccfc

Well-Known Member
It’s a little like an abortion discussion I was having on a Christian group with a right wing extremist nut job

All grendel is saying is that this stops with negotiation why not try it

All bsb and herts are saying is there are similarities with nazi germany and to be fair so is the head of the British army, he is probably saying that as he’s eyeing up an increase in funding and more recruits but he’s still said it

Both are correct is my point
Just to be clear I have never said there shouldn't be negotiation. I was just supporting BSB's comment. One doesn't negate the other.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Pretty much. The main difference is I don't see a negotiation with a concession of territory being the end. After all Crimea was tacitly given up by the West and the invasion still came 8 years later, likely only delayed by Covid
It will end with talking though. I agree with your summary of what happened with crimea. It’s such a shame that we can’t treat Russia like any other bully and crush them and him with overwhelming force
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Let's see how he gets on conquering Ukraine first. Again, at the same time you said 'let Putin crack on with it'.

You're always avoiding comment on that one-do you agree that would have been an error?

I never said it so how can I comment on it?
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
I never said it so how can I comment on it?
I’ve lived in a period where Russia has control of half of Europe and we avoided a nuclear holocaust. Russia now is never going to do this again. Ever. It’s straining at the neck to get Ukraine.

It’s going to take all his efforts and financial resources to keep hold of Ukraine and have a devastating effect over time in its country

I wouldn’t antiginise China so isolate him and let him get on with it in terms of military intervention

Fair enough it was 'get' rather than 'crack' in this case
 

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