Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (8 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No, they haven't been targeting brown people specifically and dragging them off the street based on that.

You can dislike some of their tactics, and you can certainly find some examples of power abuse and mistakes, but overall they're doing something, certain methods aside, which badly needs to be done in the UK.

They pick people who look foreign and don’t give them the right to prove their status. The Trump administration doesn’t believe in due process, which is a huge red flag.

That opens the gates for anyone to be apprehended without right of reply.

 

---

[SBT]

You can dislike some of their tactics, and you can certainly find some examples of power abuse and mistakes, but overall they're doing something, certain methods aside, which badly needs to be done in the UK.

“Certain methods aside” is doing some heavy lifting here!

I’ve said elsewhere, I don’t think the public appetite for an ICE-style mass deportation scheme is very strong, and that’s before we get into whether it’s logistically feasible or cost-effective.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

They pick people who look foreign and don’t give them the right to prove their status. The Trump administration doesn’t believe in due process, which is a huge red flag.

That opens the gates for anyone to be apprehended without right of reply.

Well yes, not all their process is correct. They've taken a hard line but I don't really blame them. Like I said, a similair approach is needed in the UK. Far too many wrong'uns have been let in and not enough is being done about it.

Many people have no idea about America and their borders anyway to be honest. There is some seriously hysterical behaviour from people on places like Reddit telling those with valid visas not to go on work trips etc, but it has always been strict. 'Deporter in Chief' was the nickname Obama had as well, which seems to get forgotten.

Funny story, but I was actually held in detention at the Tijuana border coming back in from Mexico in 2013. Was quite a surreal experience.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well yes, not all their process is correct. They've taken a hard line but I don't really blame them. Like I said, a similair approach is needed in the UK. Far too many wrong'uns have been let in and not enough is being done about it.

Many people have no idea about America and their borders anyway to be honest. There is some seriously hysterical behaviour from people on places like Reddit telling those with valid visas not to go on work trips etc, but it has always been strict. 'Deporter in Chief' was the nickname Obama had as well, which seems to get forgotten.

Funny story, but I was actually held in detention at the Tijuana border coming back in from Mexico in 2013. Was quite a surreal experience.

The nickname seems to have been forgotten by the MAGA right actually.

Look, you have to do these things by the book. Not letting people prove who they are is dangerous territory.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The nickname seems to have been forgotten by the MAGA right actually.

Look, you have to do these things by the book. Not letting people prove who they are is dangerous territory.

Yes, people should be able to prove who they are. This is a tiny fraction of what we are talking about though.

 

[Otis]

The nickname seems to have been forgotten by the MAGA right actually.

Look, you have to do these things by the book. Not letting people prove who they are is dangerous territory.

It is for sure. There will, without any doubt, be innocents swept up in all this.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes, people should be able to prove who they are. This is a tiny fraction of what we are talking about though.

The irony has been Trump voters acting shocked when their ‘illegal’ family members get dragged off. More than one recorded as saying ‘but I thought he just wanted to get rid of the bad ones’.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The irony has been Trump voters acting shocked when their ‘illegal’ family members get dragged off. More than one recorded as saying ‘but I thought he just wanted to get rid of the bad ones’.

I don't agree with all the processes here either, but that doesn't mean just knock it all on the head and open the borders up.

A few cases aren't going to make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't agree with all the processes here either, but that doesn't mean just knock it all on the head and open the borders up.

A few cases aren't going to make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Nobody says ‘let’s open all the borders up’ in a UK or US context. The Democrats are pretty strict on it despite the caricatures claiming otherwise.

There is this tendency of people to keep ascribing positions to the other side that they don’t actually hold, like the claim that Kamala Harris was obsessed with transgenderism despite not mentioning it once in the campaign. It was said that they lost for being ‘too woke’ when they went on stage with Dick Cheney and celebrated his support.

More to the point, Trump should be in prison, never mind the White House.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Nobody says ‘let’s open all the borders up’ in a UK or US context. The Democrats are pretty strict on it despite the caricatures claiming otherwise.

There is this tendency of people to keep ascribing positions to the other side that they don’t actually hold, like the claim that Kamala Harris was obsessed with transgenderism despite not mentioning it once in the campaign. It was said that they lost for being ‘too woke’ when they went on stage with Dick Cheney and celebrated his support.

More to the point, Trump should be in prison, never mind the White House.

Do you agree with the deportation of illegall immigrants, or would you just leave it as it is?

 

[Otis]

Nobody says ‘let’s open all the borders up’ in a UK or US context. The Democrats are pretty strict on it despite the caricatures claiming otherwise.

There is this tendency of people to keep ascribing positions to the other side that they don’t actually hold, like the claim that Kamala Harris was obsessed with transgenderism despite not mentioning it once in the campaign. It was said that they lost for being ‘too woke’ when they went on stage with Dick Cheney and celebrated his support.

More to the point, Trump should be in prison, never mind the White House.

Here's a serious question. If this was Trump here in the UK, as a British politician, same/similar scenarios, would he be in prison, you think?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Here's a serious question. If this was Trump here in the UK, as a British politician, same/similar scenarios, would he be in prison, you think?

The cases against him were civil, not criminal, so no. We also don’t have elected DAs which, in this context, stood on platforms to prosecute him.

Our judiciary is not outwardly politicised as it is in the USA.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

No, they haven't been targeting brown people specifically and dragging them off the street based on that.

You can dislike some of their tactics, and you can certainly find some examples of power abuse and mistakes, but overall they're doing something, certain methods aside, which badly needs to be done in the UK.

In certain cases that's very much what they're doing.

People with valid right to stay in America have been picked up off the street and deported because they're Hispanic and being treated as drug cartel and gang members.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It is for sure. There will, without any doubt, be innocents swept up in all this.

And so therefore why do we want to copy that here?

There is a middle ground between racially profiling people on the street for deportation and open borders you know.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Do you agree with the deportation of illegall immigrants, or would you just leave it as it is?

Do you agree with the deportation of legal immigrants and even US citizens without them being given the right to prove their status?

Because if the answer to that question is no, then you don't want a ICE style system in the UK. If the answer is yes, then I suggest you seriously need to review your stance on how the law and due process works. Because if you let them start doing that what other areas of judicial process will they just decide to ignore next for expediency?

 

[Otis]

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Do you agree with the deportation of illegall immigrants, or would you just leave it as it is?

The problem the US has is the number of undocumented people they have working there, paying into the system but not receiving benefits from it. So actually, you’d find an awkward number of people asking for their ‘illegals’ to stay and the taxman would almost certainly prefer it if they did.

Our situations aren’t comparable but I’d offer pathways to citizenship for those already here and who have committed no serious crimes.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The cases against him were civil, not criminal, so no. We also don’t have elected DAs which, in this context, stood on platforms to prosecute him.

Our judiciary is not outwardly politicised as it is in the USA.

MMB, when the sitting president incites riots and interferes with the processing of election results to prevent the transfer of power, he should be in prison. Instead he has been rewarded handsomely and freed all of the rioters.

Take off the blinkers, he’s a disgrace to his office.

 

[Otis]

MMB, when the sitting president incites riots and interferes with the processing of election results to prevent the transfer of power, he should be in prison. Instead he has been rewarded handsomely and freed all of the rioters.

Take off the blinkers, he’s a disgrace to his office.

He has been trampling all over democracy. Some obviously think that's a good thing, because they think it WILL make America great again.

Even if he does prove to be incredibly successful, it sets a very dangerous precedent for the future.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He has been trampling all over democracy. Some obviously think that's a good thing, because they think it WILL make America great again.

Even if he does prove to be incredibly successful, it sets a very dangerous precedent for the future.

I notice @CovValleyBoy finds it funny but doesn’t really have an argument. I guess when it’s someone you like all crime is above board?

Add in Trump using his position to cover up his long association with Epstein and protect Ghislaine Maxwell in the process. Not just saying it, he’s the worst president in the country’s history. Richard Nixon was forced to resign for much, much less.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The problem the US has is the number of undocumented people they have working there, paying into the system but not receiving benefits from it. So actually, you’d find an awkward number of people asking for their ‘illegals’ to stay and the taxman would almost certainly prefer it if they did.

Our situations aren’t comparable but I’d offer pathways to citizenship for those already here and who have committed no serious crimes.

You didn't answer the question.

Essentially it looks like you would pick holes in it regardless of hell well formed it is, so it seems like a pointless discussion.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You didn't answer the question.

Essentially it looks like you would pick holes in it regardless of hell well formed it is, so it seems like a pointless discussion.

I did: I said deport the criminals and put the rest on a path to citizenship.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Do you agree with the deportation of legal immigrants and even US citizens without them being given the right to prove their status?

Because if the answer to that question is no, then you don't want a ICE style system in the UK. If the answer is yes, then I suggest you seriously need to review your stance on how the law and due process works. Because if you let them start doing that what other areas of judicial process will they just decide to ignore next for expediency?

Again, what you are saying here is that we can't have any such process as they might get it wrong occassionally and therefore we can't enforce it for risk of that.

I am not particularly in favour of kicking out a grandmother who has raised a family and paid into the system fairly, but a line needs be drawn at some point otherwise it is chaos. If you don't think it does then you are literally saying that nothing can or should be done. We then end up with what has been going on in the UK, which is frankly a disgrace.

There are too many people that have come into the country illegally, and of whom have commited abhorrent crimes. Something needs to be done unfortunately.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I did: I said deport the criminals and put the rest on a path to citizenship.

It looks like you are saying keep anyone that hasn't commited a crime?

Even if you wanted to play it that way, how do you round up those people? You do realise there needs to be ICE style raids, otherwise the end up being left to get on with it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Again, what you are saying here is that we can't have any such process as they might get it wrong occassionally and therefore we can't enforce it for risk of that.

I am not particularly in favour of kicking out a grandmother who has raised a family and paid into the system fairly, but a line needs be drawn at some point otherwise it is chaos. If you don't think it does then you are literally saying that nothing can or should be done. We then end up with what has been going on in the UK, which is frankly a disgrace.

There are too many people that have come into the country illegally, and of whom have commited abhorrent crimes. Something needs to be done unfortunately.

All he’s saying is to do it by the book and allow someone the legal rights to prove who they are. ICE go into courts and snatch people cleared by a judge.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

All he’s saying is to do it by the book and allow someone the legal rights to prove who they are. ICE go into courts and snatch people cleared by a judge.

As I said, I don't agree with all the processes either, but that doesn't mean I would scrap it entirely. That's essentially the angle you are both going down.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

As I said, I don't agree with all the processes either, but that doesn't mean I would scrap it entirely. That's essentially the angle you are both going down.

They break the law while wearing masks to anonymise themselves while breaking the law. They’re no more than hired thugs.

To be clear I’m pretty sure we do conduct ‘raids’ here as well, we just go about it with more respect for the legal process.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

They break the law while wearing masks to anonymise themselves while breaking the law. They’re no more than hired thugs.

To be clear I’m pretty sure we do conduct ‘raids’ here as well, we just go about it with more respect for the legal process.

Ok, so we both agree the raids should continue, they should just change their approach and some of the processes involved. Fair enough.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ok, so we both agree the raids should continue, they should just change their approach and some of the processes involved. Fair enough.

Pretty much. To be clear, ICE are guilty of racially profiling the people they grab, it’s happened too often to claim otherwise. This in turn happens because they have been told to deport a given number of people per day, but quickly ran out of violent criminals. So it has led them to engage in pretty abhorrent practices.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Again, what you are saying here is that we can't have any such process as they might get it wrong occassionally and therefore we can't enforce it for risk of that.

I am not particularly in favour of kicking out a grandmother who has raised a family and paid into the system fairly, but a line needs be drawn at some point otherwise it is chaos. If you don't think it does then you are literally saying that nothing can or should be done. We then end up with what has been going on in the UK, which is frankly a disgrace.

There are too many people that have come into the country illegally, and of whom have commited abhorrent crimes. Something needs to be done unfortunately.

How many?

 

[SBT]

A few cases aren't going to make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Pretty astonishing line to take on people getting deported without due process imo.

Everyone agrees that arrival numbers and enforcement need fixing, but if the solution involves blatant miscarriages of justice then it’s not for me.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Pretty much. To be clear, ICE are guilty of racially profiling the people they grab, it’s happened too often to claim otherwise. This in turn happens because they have been told to deport a given number of people per day, but quickly ran out of violent criminals. So it has led them to engage in pretty abhorrent practices.

You see it with police forces in this part of the world as well. Often thuggish in nature. Watch any bodycam video on YouTube about what happens in the US though, and you'll see that there is a strange mentality when it comes to law enforcement. Again, another story from my travel book, but I had a gun pulled on me in a car park by officers after someone was trashing cars of the place I was working at and we called them. Then you have people like this on a power trip who think they can do whatever they want.

Guard hired to protect Portland businesses wasn’t firearm certified when he killed man

Nelson's death serves as a case study for another notable law enforcement problem the city is grappling with: powerful business interests turning to private security to do the work of police officers, enabling them to wield force against vulnerable Portlanders with a fraction of the oversight.

www.opb.org

They need to reform the way they are doing it, but given the task at hand and how many people that need to be dealt with there needs to be a serious level of operation as well. I agree it can be handled better, but they can't just do nothing either.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Pretty astonishing line to take on people getting deported without due process imo.

Everyone agrees that arrival numbers and enforcement need fixing, but if the solution involves blatant miscarriages of justice then it’s not for me.

Yep windrush
When you treat people like numbers or profile by race or colour you have big problems
Needs an answer but look at the issues this Labour Party are having being smashed from the right and the left for being too draconian and letting too many people in

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You see it with police forces in this part of the world as well. Often thuggish in nature. Watch any bodycam video on YouTube about what happens in the US though, and you'll see that there is a strange mentality when it comes to law enforcement. Again, another story from my travel book, but I had a gun pulled on me in a car park by officers after someone was trashing cars of the place I was working at and we called them. Then you have people like this on a power trip who think they can do whatever they want.

Guard hired to protect Portland businesses wasn’t firearm certified when he killed man

Nelson's death serves as a case study for another notable law enforcement problem the city is grappling with: powerful business interests turning to private security to do the work of police officers, enabling them to wield force against vulnerable Portlanders with a fraction of the oversight.

www.opb.org

They need to reform the way they are doing it, but given the task at hand and how many people that need to be dealt with there needs to be a serious level of operation as well. I agree it can be handled better, but they can't just do nothing either.

The Oriental Palace was once our nearest Chinese, we went there sometimes to eat and it was clearly a bit dodgy with an ongoing ‘card machine failure’. We went one time and there were several Home Office vehicles parked outside and they were busy detaining people.

But no masked officers, no intimidation. Just matter of fact ‘yeah this isn’t legal sorry’. I don’t like how Americanised our politics is becoming in general and Reform’s imitation of it is pretty worrying given they will likely form the next government.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The Oriental Palace was once our nearest Chinese, we went there sometimes to eat and it was clearly a bit dodgy with an ongoing ‘card machine failure’. We went one time and there were several Home Office vehicles parked outside and they were busy detaining people.

But no masked officers, no intimidation. Just matter of fact ‘yeah this isn’t legal sorry’. I don’t like how Americanised our politics is becoming in general and Reform’s imitation of it is pretty worrying given they will likely form the next government.

Same with the car wash on binley Road
£80k fine per illegal worker
The hard work of proper governance is never sexy or news worthy