Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (5 Viewers)

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The Oriental Palace was once our nearest Chinese, we went there sometimes to eat and it was clearly a bit dodgy with an ongoing ‘card machine failure’. We went one time and there were several Home Office vehicles parked outside and they were busy detaining people.

But no masked officers, no intimidation. Just matter of fact ‘yeah this isn’t legal sorry’. I don’t like how Americanised our politics is becoming in general and Reform’s imitation of it is pretty worrying given they will likely form the next government.

Regardless of the Oriental Palace story, what the operations in the UK are doing are not effective or wide spread enough. There's too many people here that shouldn't be, and there's stories posted in these threads on a frequent basis of crimes being committed by them.

Reform are winning the polls because people have had enough of the soft approach to this sort of thing. What happens next is largely irrelevant to the average voter as a lot will be doing it out of protest. If there is a more middle ground then that's fine, but we aren't seeing it unfortunately.

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

How many are you talking about?
one?
tens of thousands?
I’ve seen figures of 20m spouted over the last 2 decades that strike me as utter bollox
What is the figure in your head?
I can’t believe an intelligent guy like you is ok with an end justifying the means and fuck the consequences

can’t you see how this fundamentally changes who you or we or this country is?

Regardless of the Oriental Palace story, what the operations in the UK are doing are not effective or wide spread enough. There's too many people here that shouldn't be, and there's stories posted in these threads on a frequent basis of crimes being committed by them.

Reform are winning the polls because people have had enough of the soft approach to this sort of thing. What happens next is largely irrelevant to the average voter as a lot will be doing it out of protest. If there is a more middle ground then that's fine, but we aren't seeing it unfortunately.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Regardless of the Oriental Palace story, what the operations in the UK are doing are not effective or wide spread enough. There's too many people here that shouldn't be, and there's stories posted in these threads on a frequent basis of crimes being committed by them.

Reform are winning the polls because people have had enough of the soft approach to this sort of thing. What happens next is largely irrelevant to the average voter as a lot will be doing it out of protest. If there is a more middle ground then that's fine, but we aren't seeing it unfortunately.

The issue I see is people saying x asylum seeker who committed a crime was ‘let in’. If they were still in a hotel, their claim was still being processed-they hadn’t actually been given permission to live here.

What this leads to is people in effect arguing for us to withdraw from the refugee convention which prevents us from just turfing people out on arrival or rejecting their claims based on how they arrived.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

End justifies the means bsb
Any action becomes ok
I genuinely fear for the future
What gives me hope is that youngsters are leaping towards a green future rather than a reform one so at least there’s a competing narrative
Oh for competent governance with a vision of a future that is sustainable that we can get behind
It’s as if all crime is committed by someone non British or all problems are caused by someone non British. Whatever non British means
When you make that statement people say well one crime committed by someone that didn’t need to be here is one too many and how can anyone argue with that - it is!!
The answer though is not to forget what makes us the country we are kindness sense of fair play resilience peaceful supportive collaborative
We need a sustainable vision to rally behind

The issue I see is people saying x asylum seeker who committed a crime was ‘let in’. If they were still in a hotel, their claim was still being processed-they hadn’t actually been given permission to live here.

What this leads to is people in effect arguing for us to withdraw from the refugee convention which prevents us from just turfing people out on arrival or rejecting their claims based on how they arrived.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

End justifies the means bsb
Any action becomes ok
I genuinely fear for the future
What gives me hope is that youngsters are leaping towards a green future rather than a reform one so at least there’s a competing narrative
Oh for competent governance with a vision of a future that is sustainable that we can get behind
It’s as if all crime is committed by someone non British or all problems are caused by someone non British. Whatever non British means
When you make that statement people say well one crime committed by someone that didn’t need to be here is one too many and how can anyone argue with that - it is!!
The answer though is not to forget what makes us the country we are kindness sense of fair play resilience peaceful supportive collaborative
We need a sustainable vision to rally behind

I might be working in Parliament for a few months next year. Will be very interesting time to be there if so

 

[chiefdave]

Pretty much. To be clear, ICE are guilty of racially profiling the people they grab, it’s happened too often to claim otherwise. This in turn happens because they have been told to deport a given number of people per day, but quickly ran out of violent criminals. So it has led them to engage in pretty abhorrent practices.

Wasn't there a case that went to court there recently that was to allow ICE to racially profile people and detain them on that basis?

The big problem with ICE for me is both the methods they use and what happens after they've taken someone. You've got masked people, not in uniform, pulling up in unmarked vehicles and literally taking people off the streets. In a country with gun laws like the US it seems like only a matter of time before someone being taken acts in 'self defense'.

But the bigger problem is what happens once they have been taken. Family and friends are then unable to get any confirmation on where they have been taken and indeed if they are even still in the country. They are also denied access to any legal representation.

The defenders of ICE seem quite happy that people being wrongly taken and removed from the country is an acceptable consequence of the policy.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I might be working in Parliament for a few months next year. Will be very interesting time to be there if so

It will
The institutions can’t change quickly enough and are being left behind
Look how Farage claims to love Britain but doesn’t want to play by the rules he doesn’t agree with

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It will
The institutions can’t change quickly enough and are being left behind
Look how Farage claims to love Britain but doesn’t want to play by the rules he doesn’t agree with

The US and this country are now at the point where people ascribe personal characteristics to different voter sets and don’t even accept good intentions from the other side. The difference over there is that one side really is guilty of serious election interference and refusing to respect democratic norms.

 

[Grendel]

End justifies the means bsb
Any action becomes ok
I genuinely fear for the future
What gives me hope is that youngsters are leaping towards a green future rather than a reform one so at least there’s a competing narrative
Oh for competent governance with a vision of a future that is sustainable that we can get behind
It’s as if all crime is committed by someone non British or all problems are caused by someone non British. Whatever non British means
When you make that statement people say well one crime committed by someone that didn’t need to be here is one too many and how can anyone argue with that - it is!!
The answer though is not to forget what makes us the country we are kindness sense of fair play resilience peaceful supportive collaborative
We need a sustainable vision to rally behind

Young people are ideological as they have zero responsibility - most migrate to the right as they become more successful

Capitalism brings rewards for those who want it - and in the end most want it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Young people are ideological as they have zero responsibility - most migrate to the right as they become more successful

Capitalism brings rewards for those who want it - and in the end most want it

People can want it and not get it

 

[Grendel]

People can want it and not get it

Also many want it without doing anything to achieve it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Also many want it without doing anything to achieve it.

Yep. But social democrats simply want a mix of capitalism and socialism in society. The question isn’t really a binary choice, it’s a matter of where you want the balance to lie.

 

[Grendel]

Yep. But social democrats simply want a mix of capitalism and socialism in society. The question isn’t really a binary choice, it’s a matter of where you want the balance to lie.

Let’s be honest here - you do give the impression of someone who would very happily have more money, live in a bigger property and enjoy a better lifestyle even though what you have already is far more than a lot in the world could ever even dream of.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Wasn't there a case that went to court there recently that was to allow ICE to racially profile people and detain them on that basis?

The big problem with ICE for me is both the methods they use and what happens after they've taken someone. You've got masked people, not in uniform, pulling up in unmarked vehicles and literally taking people off the streets. In a country with gun laws like the US it seems like only a matter of time before someone being taken acts in 'self defense'.

But the bigger problem is what happens once they have been taken. Family and friends are then unable to get any confirmation on where they have been taken and indeed if they are even still in the country. They are also denied access to any legal representation.

The defenders of ICE seem quite happy that people being wrongly taken and removed from the country is an acceptable consequence of the policy.

What's your solution then?

 

[SBT]

Let’s be honest here - you do give the impression of someone who would very happily have more money, live in a bigger property and enjoy a better lifestyle even though what you have already is far more than a lot in the world could ever even dream of.

For shame!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Let’s be honest here - you do give the impression of someone who would very happily have more money, live in a bigger property and enjoy a better lifestyle even though what you have already is far more than a lot in the world could ever even dream of.

I’m working hard to better myself, yes.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Young people are ideological as they have zero responsibility - most migrate to the right as they become more successful

Capitalism brings rewards for those who want it - and in the end most want it

And yet the first people crying for public funds to pay for their projects are rich capitalists and business owners under the guise of job creation and growth. Should they not just work harder or smarter so they can pay for it themselves rather than relying on public funding?

Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Again, what you are saying here is that we can't have any such process as they might get it wrong occassionally and therefore we can't enforce it for risk of that.

I am not particularly in favour of kicking out a grandmother who has raised a family and paid into the system fairly, but a line needs be drawn at some point otherwise it is chaos. If you don't think it does then you are literally saying that nothing can or should be done. We then end up with what has been going on in the UK, which is frankly a disgrace.

There are too many people that have come into the country illegally, and of whom have commited abhorrent crimes. Something needs to be done unfortunately.

No, you're saying that. I'm saying no such thing.

I'm saying that people should have the right to prove their identity, access to legal help and at the very least they and their families should know where the hell they've been taken.

If you've got government officials on official business hiding their own identities with facemasks then what they're doing isn't right and they know it.