tisza
Well-Known Member
IS that not a big "if"? Afghanistan,Iraq, Libya (all worse regimes than Venezuela) haven't become flourishing democracies when leaderships were removed.
IS that not a big "if"? Afghanistan,Iraq, Libya (all worse regimes than Venezuela) haven't become flourishing democracies when leaderships were removed.It’s not just Trump, it’s the entire West. Putin tried and failed to oust Zelensky so this rabbit hole is pretty pointless.
Do you think Maduro won fairly? I’m getting an impression that you think he had.
Let’s try to find common ground here. If Venezuelan democracy flourishes again, would this intervention be righteous? My answer to that is yes.
Dude, read my posts. Of course there’s a lot of geopolitics going on here.Do you genuinely believe this was about removing a dictator because the US can't abide the way Maduro has treated his citizens? And they just want to free Venezuela's citizens from this oppressive regime and give them fair democracy?
I’ll answer it. Maduro is a ‘socialist’ and most staunchest of criticism Trump’s intervention are mostly left wing. It’s convenient to frame the Trump administrations as ‘imperialist’. Ironically, there’s a blindness of China’s actions in South America.For those who strangely dodge the question Maduro lost the election. Even equally corrupt countries like Brazil acknowledge it. Why no one answers this seems a bit odd.
Well your view on all this is might makes right so not sure why you’re even contributingYou confuse the West with Super Powers
None of those countries were democracies. Venezuela was 10 years ago and has a sophisticated opposition ready to take over.IS that not a big "if"? Afghanistan,Iraq, Libya (all worse regimes than Venezuela) haven't become flourishing democracies when leaderships were removed.
Dude, read my posts. Of course there’s a lot of geopolitics going on here.
Might has always been right. International Law is a construct designed to impose Western values globally. Did the USSR, China, Latin America, the Middle East or even Africa subscribe to ‘international law’ at the time? Of course not.Well your view on all this is might makes right so not sure why you’re even contributing
Do you honestly believe that anyone who criticises this kidnapping does so because they sympathise with Maduro and believe he was the legitimate ruler of Venezuela? How far down the list of 2003-era neocon cliches are you going to get?I’ll answer it. Maduro is a ‘socialist’ and most staunchest of criticism Trump’s intervention are mostly left wing. It’s convenient to frame the Trump administrations as ‘imperialist’. Ironically, there’s a blindness of China’s actions in South America.
In truth, Maduro’s regime in Venezuela is indefensible.
There is a precedent in international law to remove dictators, in WW2 we were committed to not only restoring lost territories, but to overthrowing a ‘illegitimate’ and evil Nazi regime. Just because we teamed up with the USSR does not make that war wrong.
Finally!Might has always been right.
The Venezuelan politics is organised like US politics.
No, you, and Grendel are totally wrong, Venezuela is a more democratic than the UK
May I add, Hugo Chavez was a great leader who profoundly changed Venezuela for the better and I don't feel he got the credit he deserves and I sincerely hope there is a left movement in the UK with a similar, or even more radical ideology and policy than him, a true political hero for the workers
Hugo Chavez was elected in 1998, died in office 2013, he was elected to stay in office, in fact, Maduro, his successor, has just won the election called because of Chavez's death before he was sworn in!
Mr Hugo Chavez ran a dictatorship? What evidence? He was elected, he had a mandate to rule unlike this coalition (if the Liberals voted who to partner with, their followers would've went with Labour), the people also did not vote for a coalition. Here's a quick comparison with Venezuela:
-UK has unelected Head of State, Venezuela does not.
- UK has an unelected second chamber, Venezuela does not.
Long live the Bolivarian Revolution!
This was in MMB’s Corbynista days I thinkSeeing as he apparently can't/won't produce them himself, here's a little walk down memory lane for Mucca Mad Boys and his posting history on Venezuela:
It's not really clear why someone who's posted more pro-Maduro and pro-Chavez stuff than anyone on this website, and hasn't posted about Venezuela at all in more than a decade, is suddenly castigating people for not more loudly condemning the regime before weighing in on this.This was in MMB’s Corbynista days I think
That’s a blast from the past when I was a young and naive socialist. Hugo Chavez, for his faults, did actually have legitimacy. Maduro did for his term because he was a continuation of Chavez.Seeing as he apparently can't/won't produce them himself, here's a little walk down memory lane for Mucca Mad Boys and his posting history on Venezuela:
You keep going back to Maduro being a bad guy, which nobody disputes.
It's a convenient excuse for this intervention which has absolutely nothing to do with restoring democracy in Venezuela or freeing the Venezuelan people.
I’ve never hidden the fact that I was socialist at school and university. Which is why I understand where a lot of you are coming from.This was in MMB’s Corbynista days I think
Nice try. There was no pro-Maduro stuff. All the quoted posts pre-date Maduro.It's not really clear why someone who's posted more pro-Maduro and pro-Chavez stuff than anyone on this website, and hasn't posted about Venezuela at all in more than a decade, is suddenly castigating people for not more loudly condemning the regime before weighing in on this.
I’m not and never have been a socialist so with respect you can drop the condescension.I’ve never hidden the fact that I was socialist at school and university. Which is why I understand where a lot of you are coming from.
There's probably only one poster on here who'd I'd say is actually a socialist.I’m not and never have been a socialist so with respect you can drop the condescension.
Seeing as he apparently can't/won't produce them himself, here's a little walk down memory lane for Mucca Mad Boys and his posting history on Venezuela:
All but one of the quotes are from after Maduro took power in April 2013, and one even references his election victory? Are you quite OK?Nice try. There was no pro-Maduro stuff. All the quoted posts pre-date Maduro.
Dude, read my posts. Of course there’s a lot of geopolitics going on here.
@Captain Dart shared a noteworthy Twitter thread.
I’ll answer it. Maduro is a ‘socialist’ and most staunchest of criticism Trump’s intervention are mostly left wing. It’s convenient to frame the Trump administrations as ‘imperialist’. Ironically, there’s a blindness of China’s actions in South America.
In truth, Maduro’s regime in Venezuela is indefensible.
There is a precedent in international law to remove dictators, in WW2 we were committed to not only restoring lost territories, but to overthrowing a ‘illegitimate’ and evil Nazi regime. Just because we teamed up with the USSR does not make that war wrong.
It’s not condescension, it’s a recognition that even if we disagree, I have a vague understanding of the guiding principles of your (and once my own) viewpoints.I’m not and never have been a socialist so with respect you can drop the condescension.
It referenced he won an election. A lot changed from 2013 to 2018 which is when this whole crisis started. Actually, that time period in Venezuela was quite an important in my own political journey.All but one of the quotes are from after Maduro took power in April 2013, and one even references his election victory? Are you quite OK?
So given that you haven't posted about Venezuela since then, why are you running around dismissing people's opinions because they haven't weighed in on the Maduro regime's corruption?Besides, the posts were nearly 13 years ago. I’m sure most of you had v different feelings to Trump in 2013 when he was just a celebrity.
You went on to describe it as ‘student union’ politics and come across as seeing the other side as the naive child’s view. At least that’s how it looks to me whether you mean it or not.It’s not condescension, it’s a recognition that even if we disagree, I have a vague understanding of the guiding principles of your (and once my own) viewpoints.
I don’t get why you took that as hostile to be honest.
It referenced he won an election. A lot changed from 2013 to 2018 which is when this whole crisis started. Actually, that time period in Venezuela was quite an important in my own political journey.
Besides, the posts were nearly 13 years ago. I’m sure most of you had v different feelings to Trump in 2013 when he was just a celebrity.
You’re projecting that onto me. I was referencing myself when talking about student union politics. As previously mentioned, in 2013 I hadn’t even started uni.You went on to describe it as ‘student union’ politics and come across as seeing the other side as the naive child’s view. At least that’s how it looks to me whether you mean it or not.
Wow you are a lot younger than I thought!You’re projecting that onto me. I was referencing myself when talking about student union politics. As previously mentioned, in 2013 I hadn’t even started uni.
his read books sinceWow you are a lot younger than I thought!
Might has always been right. International Law is a construct designed to impose Western values globally. Did the USSR, China, Latin America, the Middle East or even Africa subscribe to ‘international law’ at the time? Of course not.
It’s an irony that you and others haven’t actually grasped this.
There’s one post that @SBT quoted made me laugh because it brought me back to some exams I was studying for. A proper wave of nostalgia!Wow you are a lot younger than I thought!
Could Don fly into the UK and kidnap Starmer and Khan next please!
Russia accused the US of committing "an act of armed aggression" that was "deeply concerning and condemnable".
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