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Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (14 Viewers)

  • Thread starter tisza
  • Start date Jan 10, 2020
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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 9:44 PM
  • #14,911
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
No, they haven't been targeting brown people specifically and dragging them off the street based on that.

You can dislike some of their tactics, and you can certainly find some examples of power abuse and mistakes, but overall they're doing something, certain methods aside, which badly needs to be done in the UK.
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They pick people who look foreign and don’t give them the right to prove their status. The Trump administration doesn’t believe in due process, which is a huge red flag.

That opens the gates for anyone to be apprehended without right of reply.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:01 PM
  • #14,912
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You can dislike some of their tactics, and you can certainly find some examples of power abuse and mistakes, but overall they're doing something, certain methods aside, which badly needs to be done in the UK.
Click to expand...
“Certain methods aside” is doing some heavy lifting here!

I’ve said elsewhere, I don’t think the public appetite for an ICE-style mass deportation scheme is very strong, and that’s before we get into whether it’s logistically feasible or cost-effective.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:03 PM
  • #14,913
Brighton Sky Blue said:
They pick people who look foreign and don’t give them the right to prove their status. The Trump administration doesn’t believe in due process, which is a huge red flag.

That opens the gates for anyone to be apprehended without right of reply.
Click to expand...

Well yes, not all their process is correct. They've taken a hard line but I don't really blame them. Like I said, a similair approach is needed in the UK. Far too many wrong'uns have been let in and not enough is being done about it.

Many people have no idea about America and their borders anyway to be honest. There is some seriously hysterical behaviour from people on places like Reddit telling those with valid visas not to go on work trips etc, but it has always been strict. 'Deporter in Chief' was the nickname Obama had as well, which seems to get forgotten.

Funny story, but I was actually held in detention at the Tijuana border coming back in from Mexico in 2013. Was quite a surreal experience.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:05 PM
  • #14,914
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Well yes, not all their process is correct. They've taken a hard line but I don't really blame them. Like I said, a similair approach is needed in the UK. Far too many wrong'uns have been let in and not enough is being done about it.

Many people have no idea about America and their borders anyway to be honest. There is some seriously hysterical behaviour from people on places like Reddit telling those with valid visas not to go on work trips etc, but it has always been strict. 'Deporter in Chief' was the nickname Obama had as well, which seems to get forgotten.

Funny story, but I was actually held in detention at the Tijuana border coming back in from Mexico in 2013. Was quite a surreal experience.
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The nickname seems to have been forgotten by the MAGA right actually.

Look, you have to do these things by the book. Not letting people prove who they are is dangerous territory.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:11 PM
  • #14,915
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The nickname seems to have been forgotten by the MAGA right actually.

Look, you have to do these things by the book. Not letting people prove who they are is dangerous territory.
Click to expand...

Yes, people should be able to prove who they are. This is a tiny fraction of what we are talking about though.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:14 PM
  • #14,916
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The nickname seems to have been forgotten by the MAGA right actually.

Look, you have to do these things by the book. Not letting people prove who they are is dangerous territory.
Click to expand...
It is for sure. There will, without any doubt, be innocents swept up in all this.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:14 PM
  • #14,917
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Yes, people should be able to prove who they are. This is a tiny fraction of what we are talking about though.
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The irony has been Trump voters acting shocked when their ‘illegal’ family members get dragged off. More than one recorded as saying ‘but I thought he just wanted to get rid of the bad ones’.
 
Reactions: Otis

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:16 PM
  • #14,918
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The irony has been Trump voters acting shocked when their ‘illegal’ family members get dragged off. More than one recorded as saying ‘but I thought he just wanted to get rid of the bad ones’.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with all the processes here either, but that doesn't mean just knock it all on the head and open the borders up.

A few cases aren't going to make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:24 PM
  • #14,919
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I don't agree with all the processes here either, but that doesn't mean just knock it all on the head and open the borders up.

A few cases aren't going to make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...
Nobody says ‘let’s open all the borders up’ in a UK or US context. The Democrats are pretty strict on it despite the caricatures claiming otherwise.

There is this tendency of people to keep ascribing positions to the other side that they don’t actually hold, like the claim that Kamala Harris was obsessed with transgenderism despite not mentioning it once in the campaign. It was said that they lost for being ‘too woke’ when they went on stage with Dick Cheney and celebrated his support.

More to the point, Trump should be in prison, never mind the White House.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and wingy

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:28 PM
  • #14,920
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Nobody says ‘let’s open all the borders up’ in a UK or US context. The Democrats are pretty strict on it despite the caricatures claiming otherwise.

There is this tendency of people to keep ascribing positions to the other side that they don’t actually hold, like the claim that Kamala Harris was obsessed with transgenderism despite not mentioning it once in the campaign. It was said that they lost for being ‘too woke’ when they went on stage with Dick Cheney and celebrated his support.

More to the point, Trump should be in prison, never mind the White House.
Click to expand...

Do you agree with the deportation of illegall immigrants, or would you just leave it as it is?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 10:30 PM
  • #14,921
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Nobody says ‘let’s open all the borders up’ in a UK or US context. The Democrats are pretty strict on it despite the caricatures claiming otherwise.

There is this tendency of people to keep ascribing positions to the other side that they don’t actually hold, like the claim that Kamala Harris was obsessed with transgenderism despite not mentioning it once in the campaign. It was said that they lost for being ‘too woke’ when they went on stage with Dick Cheney and celebrated his support.

More to the point, Trump should be in prison, never mind the White House.
Click to expand...
Here's a serious question. If this was Trump here in the UK, as a British politician, same/similar scenarios, would he be in prison, you think?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 11:34 PM
  • #14,922
Otis said:
Here's a serious question. If this was Trump here in the UK, as a British politician, same/similar scenarios, would he be in prison, you think?
Click to expand...
The cases against him were civil, not criminal, so no. We also don’t have elected DAs which, in this context, stood on platforms to prosecute him.

Our judiciary is not outwardly politicised as it is in the USA.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Yesterday at 11:58 PM
  • #14,923
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
No, they haven't been targeting brown people specifically and dragging them off the street based on that.

You can dislike some of their tactics, and you can certainly find some examples of power abuse and mistakes, but overall they're doing something, certain methods aside, which badly needs to be done in the UK.
Click to expand...
In certain cases that's very much what they're doing.

People with valid right to stay in America have been picked up off the street and deported because they're Hispanic and being treated as drug cartel and gang members.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:00 AM
  • #14,924
Otis said:
It is for sure. There will, without any doubt, be innocents swept up in all this.
Click to expand...
And so therefore why do we want to copy that here?

There is a middle ground between racially profiling people on the street for deportation and open borders you know.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, Brighton Sky Blue and Otis

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 12:03 AM
  • #14,925
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Do you agree with the deportation of illegall immigrants, or would you just leave it as it is?
Click to expand...
Do you agree with the deportation of legal immigrants and even US citizens without them being given the right to prove their status?

Because if the answer to that question is no, then you don't want a ICE style system in the UK. If the answer is yes, then I suggest you seriously need to review your stance on how the law and due process works. Because if you let them start doing that what other areas of judicial process will they just decide to ignore next for expediency?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 3:58 AM
  • #14,926
 
Reactions: mmttww

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 6:40 AM
  • #14,927
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Do you agree with the deportation of illegall immigrants, or would you just leave it as it is?
Click to expand...
The problem the US has is the number of undocumented people they have working there, paying into the system but not receiving benefits from it. So actually, you’d find an awkward number of people asking for their ‘illegals’ to stay and the taxman would almost certainly prefer it if they did.

Our situations aren’t comparable but I’d offer pathways to citizenship for those already here and who have committed no serious crimes.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 6:44 AM
  • #14,928
Mucca Mad Boys said:
The cases against him were civil, not criminal, so no. We also don’t have elected DAs which, in this context, stood on platforms to prosecute him.

Our judiciary is not outwardly politicised as it is in the USA.
Click to expand...
MMB, when the sitting president incites riots and interferes with the processing of election results to prevent the transfer of power, he should be in prison. Instead he has been rewarded handsomely and freed all of the rioters.

Take off the blinkers, he’s a disgrace to his office.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, rondog1973, mmttww and 4 others

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 7:50 AM
  • #14,929
Brighton Sky Blue said:
MMB, when the sitting president incites riots and interferes with the processing of election results to prevent the transfer of power, he should be in prison. Instead he has been rewarded handsomely and freed all of the rioters.

Take off the blinkers, he’s a disgrace to his office.
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He has been trampling all over democracy. Some obviously think that's a good thing, because they think it WILL make America great again.

Even if he does prove to be incredibly successful, it sets a very dangerous precedent for the future.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Sky Blue Pete

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 7:54 AM
  • #14,930
Otis said:
He has been trampling all over democracy. Some obviously think that's a good thing, because they think it WILL make America great again.

Even if he does prove to be incredibly successful, it sets a very dangerous precedent for the future.
Click to expand...
I notice @CovValleyBoy finds it funny but doesn’t really have an argument. I guess when it’s someone you like all crime is above board?

Add in Trump using his position to cover up his long association with Epstein and protect Ghislaine Maxwell in the process. Not just saying it, he’s the worst president in the country’s history. Richard Nixon was forced to resign for much, much less.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 7:59 AM
  • #14,931
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The problem the US has is the number of undocumented people they have working there, paying into the system but not receiving benefits from it. So actually, you’d find an awkward number of people asking for their ‘illegals’ to stay and the taxman would almost certainly prefer it if they did.

Our situations aren’t comparable but I’d offer pathways to citizenship for those already here and who have committed no serious crimes.
Click to expand...

You didn't answer the question.

Essentially it looks like you would pick holes in it regardless of hell well formed it is, so it seems like a pointless discussion.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 8:00 AM
  • #14,932
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You didn't answer the question.

Essentially it looks like you would pick holes in it regardless of hell well formed it is, so it seems like a pointless discussion.
Click to expand...
I did: I said deport the criminals and put the rest on a path to citizenship.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 8:04 AM
  • #14,933
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Do you agree with the deportation of legal immigrants and even US citizens without them being given the right to prove their status?

Because if the answer to that question is no, then you don't want a ICE style system in the UK. If the answer is yes, then I suggest you seriously need to review your stance on how the law and due process works. Because if you let them start doing that what other areas of judicial process will they just decide to ignore next for expediency?
Click to expand...

Again, what you are saying here is that we can't have any such process as they might get it wrong occassionally and therefore we can't enforce it for risk of that.

I am not particularly in favour of kicking out a grandmother who has raised a family and paid into the system fairly, but a line needs be drawn at some point otherwise it is chaos. If you don't think it does then you are literally saying that nothing can or should be done. We then end up with what has been going on in the UK, which is frankly a disgrace.

There are too many people that have come into the country illegally, and of whom have commited abhorrent crimes. Something needs to be done unfortunately.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 8:07 AM
  • #14,934
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I did: I said deport the criminals and put the rest on a path to citizenship.
Click to expand...

It looks like you are saying keep anyone that hasn't commited a crime?

Even if you wanted to play it that way, how do you round up those people? You do realise there needs to be ICE style raids, otherwise the end up being left to get on with it.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 8:11 AM
  • #14,935
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Again, what you are saying here is that we can't have any such process as they might get it wrong occassionally and therefore we can't enforce it for risk of that.

I am not particularly in favour of kicking out a grandmother who has raised a family and paid into the system fairly, but a line needs be drawn at some point otherwise it is chaos. If you don't think it does then you are literally saying that nothing can or should be done. We then end up with what has been going on in the UK, which is frankly a disgrace.

There are too many people that have come into the country illegally, and of whom have commited abhorrent crimes. Something needs to be done unfortunately.
Click to expand...
All he’s saying is to do it by the book and allow someone the legal rights to prove who they are. ICE go into courts and snatch people cleared by a judge.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 8:14 AM
  • #14,936
Brighton Sky Blue said:
All he’s saying is to do it by the book and allow someone the legal rights to prove who they are. ICE go into courts and snatch people cleared by a judge.
Click to expand...

As I said, I don't agree with all the processes either, but that doesn't mean I would scrap it entirely. That's essentially the angle you are both going down.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 8:18 AM
  • #14,937
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
As I said, I don't agree with all the processes either, but that doesn't mean I would scrap it entirely. That's essentially the angle you are both going down.
Click to expand...
They break the law while wearing masks to anonymise themselves while breaking the law. They’re no more than hired thugs.

To be clear I’m pretty sure we do conduct ‘raids’ here as well, we just go about it with more respect for the legal process.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 8:23 AM
  • #14,938
Brighton Sky Blue said:
They break the law while wearing masks to anonymise themselves while breaking the law. They’re no more than hired thugs.

To be clear I’m pretty sure we do conduct ‘raids’ here as well, we just go about it with more respect for the legal process.
Click to expand...

Ok, so we both agree the raids should continue, they should just change their approach and some of the processes involved. Fair enough.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 8:51 AM
  • #14,939
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Ok, so we both agree the raids should continue, they should just change their approach and some of the processes involved. Fair enough.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. To be clear, ICE are guilty of racially profiling the people they grab, it’s happened too often to claim otherwise. This in turn happens because they have been told to deport a given number of people per day, but quickly ran out of violent criminals. So it has led them to engage in pretty abhorrent practices.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 8:52 AM
  • #14,940
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Again, what you are saying here is that we can't have any such process as they might get it wrong occassionally and therefore we can't enforce it for risk of that.

I am not particularly in favour of kicking out a grandmother who has raised a family and paid into the system fairly, but a line needs be drawn at some point otherwise it is chaos. If you don't think it does then you are literally saying that nothing can or should be done. We then end up with what has been going on in the UK, which is frankly a disgrace.

There are too many people that have come into the country illegally, and of whom have commited abhorrent crimes. Something needs to be done unfortunately.
Click to expand...
How many?
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 8:54 AM
  • #14,941
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
A few cases aren't going to make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...
Pretty astonishing line to take on people getting deported without due process imo.

Everyone agrees that arrival numbers and enforcement need fixing, but if the solution involves blatant miscarriages of justice then it’s not for me.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Otis, mmttww and 2 others

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 9:07 AM
  • #14,942
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Pretty much. To be clear, ICE are guilty of racially profiling the people they grab, it’s happened too often to claim otherwise. This in turn happens because they have been told to deport a given number of people per day, but quickly ran out of violent criminals. So it has led them to engage in pretty abhorrent practices.
Click to expand...

You see it with police forces in this part of the world as well. Often thuggish in nature. Watch any bodycam video on YouTube about what happens in the US though, and you'll see that there is a strange mentality when it comes to law enforcement. Again, another story from my travel book, but I had a gun pulled on me in a car park by officers after someone was trashing cars of the place I was working at and we called them. Then you have people like this on a power trip who think they can do whatever they want.

Guard hired to protect Portland businesses wasn’t firearm certified when he killed man

Nelson's death serves as a case study for another notable law enforcement problem the city is grappling with: powerful business interests turning to private security to do the work of police officers, enabling them to wield force against vulnerable Portlanders with a fraction of the oversight.
www.opb.org


They need to reform the way they are doing it, but given the task at hand and how many people that need to be dealt with there needs to be a serious level of operation as well. I agree it can be handled better, but they can't just do nothing either.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 9:12 AM
  • #14,943
SBT said:
Pretty astonishing line to take on people getting deported without due process imo.

Everyone agrees that arrival numbers and enforcement need fixing, but if the solution involves blatant miscarriages of justice then it’s not for me.
Click to expand...
Yep windrush
When you treat people like numbers or profile by race or colour you have big problems
Needs an answer but look at the issues this Labour Party are having being smashed from the right and the left for being too draconian and letting too many people in
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 9:18 AM
  • #14,944
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You see it with police forces in this part of the world as well. Often thuggish in nature. Watch any bodycam video on YouTube about what happens in the US though, and you'll see that there is a strange mentality when it comes to law enforcement. Again, another story from my travel book, but I had a gun pulled on me in a car park by officers after someone was trashing cars of the place I was working at and we called them. Then you have people like this on a power trip who think they can do whatever they want.

Guard hired to protect Portland businesses wasn’t firearm certified when he killed man

Nelson's death serves as a case study for another notable law enforcement problem the city is grappling with: powerful business interests turning to private security to do the work of police officers, enabling them to wield force against vulnerable Portlanders with a fraction of the oversight.
www.opb.org


They need to reform the way they are doing it, but given the task at hand and how many people that need to be dealt with there needs to be a serious level of operation as well. I agree it can be handled better, but they can't just do nothing either.
Click to expand...
The Oriental Palace was once our nearest Chinese, we went there sometimes to eat and it was clearly a bit dodgy with an ongoing ‘card machine failure’. We went one time and there were several Home Office vehicles parked outside and they were busy detaining people.

But no masked officers, no intimidation. Just matter of fact ‘yeah this isn’t legal sorry’. I don’t like how Americanised our politics is becoming in general and Reform’s imitation of it is pretty worrying given they will likely form the next government.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Today at 9:20 AM
  • #14,945
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The Oriental Palace was once our nearest Chinese, we went there sometimes to eat and it was clearly a bit dodgy with an ongoing ‘card machine failure’. We went one time and there were several Home Office vehicles parked outside and they were busy detaining people.

But no masked officers, no intimidation. Just matter of fact ‘yeah this isn’t legal sorry’. I don’t like how Americanised our politics is becoming in general and Reform’s imitation of it is pretty worrying given they will likely form the next government.
Click to expand...
Same with the car wash on binley Road
£80k fine per illegal worker
The hard work of proper governance is never sexy or news worthy
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue
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