Time for Lampard to go? (3 Viewers)

[covcity4life]

Yes, a lot of players have contributed less, and there will be different reasons why for each player.
Lampard clearly doesn't fancy Simms and he'll be gone, hes alluded to issues with a couple of the new lads, not sure what is going on with Torp but I cannot think of any logical reason other than fitness with Hamer.

I think lampard would have alluded to it like he has the french lads in terms of application

Just a line like "gus is working hard in training to get him to where we want him to be" would have been very easy to drop

 

[Wyken Sky Blue]

Lampard was the best thing since sliced bread last season when we stormed the league!

However, how many players have actually performed that are his signings:

Championship:
Rushworth
Grimes
Onyeka

Premier League:
Pinnock
Amenda early doors
Mfuni when he's come on
Cherif has shown some signs

Everyone else that played well in the championship or this season he has inherited

That's not a great hit rate to be honest

He has been backed this summer so no excuse there, questions need to be aimed at the signings as to why they aren't playing and if they are playing why aren't they performing at the level they need to be

 

[clint van damme]

I think lampard would have alluded to it like he has the french lads in terms of application

Just a line like "gus is working hard in training to get him to where we want him to be" would have been very easy to drop

He is working hard in training, I had that from an impeccable source on Saturday. But he doesnt seem to be seeing the benefits, (Ive no idea what his current lifestyle is away from the club).

Sometimes players can try and do things right later in their career but its too late to stop the rot.
Wenger managed to extend the careers of several older players by changing their lifestyle and diet. Kieron Dyer started to live like an athlete later on in his career but he said the damage had already been done.

Let's see what category Hamer falls in to.

 

[Sick Boy]

Lampard was the best thing since sliced bread last season when we stormed the league!

However, how many players have actually performed that are his signings:

Championship:
Rushworth
Grimes
Onyeka

Premier League:
Pinnock
Amenda early doors
Mfuni when he's come on
Cherif has shown some signs

Everyone else that played well in the championship or this season he has inherited

That's not a great hit rate to be honest

He has been backed this summer so no excuse there, questions need to be aimed at the signings as to why they aren't playing and if they are playing why aren't they performing at the level they need to be

Yeah because he’s wholly responsible for scouting and the signings.

 

[covcity4life]

He is working hard in training, I had that from an impeccable source on Saturday. But he doesnt seem to be seeing the benefits, (Ive no idea what his current lifestyle is away from the club).

Sometimes players can try and do things right later in their career but its too late to stop the rot.
Wenger managed to extend the careers of several older players by changing their lifestyle and diet. Kieron Dyer started to live like an athlete later on in his career but he said the damage had already been done.

Let's see what category Hamer falls in to.

Let's see but we won't know unless he gets some game time. At this point not sure we have anything to lose by giving him a shot(not of alcohol)

The worry is if lampard sees grimes as u touchable as the maestro and then hamer can only play in rudonis spot properly and rudoni is our MVP and can't drop him.

 

[Wyken Sky Blue]

Yeah because he’s wholly responsible for scouting and the signings.

I never said he was wholly responsible but he is part of the equation with Austin and co and he will be judged on that

 

[clint van damme]

Let's see but we won't know unless he gets some game time. At this point not sure we have anything to lose by giving him a shot(not of alcohol)

The worry is if lampard sees grimes as u touchable as the maestro and then hamer can only play in rudonis spot properly and rudoni is our MVP and can't drop him.

The fact hes not really giving him minutes when we're chasing games tells me somethings amiss.
He should have been.on as soon as they scored Saturday, only another 5 minutes but with AT would have given him 15

 

[Captain Dart]

Knee jerk reaction.

 

[Diehard Si]

Jesus wept. Talk about being a victim of your own success.

I think people need to think before they post.

 

[Sick Boy]

I never said he was wholly responsible but he is part of the equation with Austin and co and he will be judged on that

The 3 signings in the Championship were pivotal to us getting out of the league. The club has been clear though about moving away from a model where the manager is responsible for every aspect like in the past.

 

[Username Required]

I honestly think that the majority of the issue is with Frank’s selection and the way he’s been setting us up. It’s very clear that he feels we’re inferior to everyone and that is rubbing off on the players. He’s setting us up to sit behind the ball with the primary focus on plugging gaps and defending the box. Then hoping we either nick something à la DaSilva, from a set piece/long throw or a Rudi “moment”.

Of course we are going to create very little. He’s not playing any midfielders with any “craft” that’s why Grimes plays, it’s nothing to do with dictating play or his passing ability. Frank trusts him the most to essentially occupy threatening areas and block passing lanes. If he wanted goal threat and creativity at the expensive of some defensive work rate. He would play Torp/Hamer/Gboho/Tchaouna etc.

This isn’t intended as a post to dig out Grimes either. He was fantastic last season but he needs time to operate which is a luxury in the PL and he doesn’t have the physicality or ability to give himself that yard. It was very apparent in matches like Spurs. He was a boy chasing around a man in Tonali.

IMO, Frank needs to trust Onyeka in the 6 and rotate between Torp, Hamer and Rudi for the other 2 positions to give us craft. I’d also play Yirenkyi at RB (Milan is terrified). Give Gboho/EMC and Tats/Tchaouna freedom to express/get forward and actually give the opposition something to think about because at the moment BTA and Tats primary job is to help out the fullback and sit behind the ball, not provide attacking width.

Sorry for the essay.

I particularly agree wih the part about the inferiority complex in the first paragraph. Whilst everyone knows it is a big step up, psychologically, there is a tipping point where it transforms from a realistic caution to motivate the players - into a repeated mantra that someone starts to subconciously believe.
Seeing them come out of the tunnel at The Emirates they all looked like rabbits in the headlights and now even 8 games on some of the players still do (you mention MVE and I'd also add Grimes EMC and Rushworth to that).
Perhaps the management have gone a bit overboard in creating the 'bogeyman', Hull haven't seemed to have the same problem.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Lampard was the best thing since sliced bread last season when we stormed the league!

However, how many players have actually performed that are his signings:

Championship:
Rushworth
Grimes
Onyeka

Premier League:
Pinnock
Amenda early doors
Mfuni when he's come on
Cherif has shown some signs

Everyone else that played well in the championship or this season he has inherited

That's not a great hit rate to be honest

He has been backed this summer so no excuse there, questions need to be aimed at the signings as to why they aren't playing and if they are playing why aren't they performing at the level they need to be

Id argue that him and his coaching team have also overseen improvements in Dasilva, Simms, Torp, BTA and Thomas

 

[Skybluecov1]

Id argue that him and his coaching team have also overseen improvements in Dasilva, Simms, Torp, BTA and Thomas

And Rudoni!

 

[robin.starling]

Just seen Claudio Ranieri in the Nandos.

 

[Skyblue Bangkok]

Just seen Claudio Ranieri in the Nandos.

What did he order.

 

[CCFCSteve]

And Rudoni!

Definitely !

 

[robin.starling]

What did he order.

Pasta

 

[David O'Day]

Hull play 5ATB and look more dangerous than us going forward and Ipswich are pressing hard and trying to play.

We’re doing…neither?

This the same Hull that also lost to Fulham and had 22% of possession and 4 shots

 

[fernandopartridge]

He has to be braver simple as that Newcastle game all out attack.Nonone expects us to win so just give it full throttle.

How was that Newcastle game "all out attack", absolutely clueless

 

[Cov. Kids. Never. Quit]

I like Lampard, I think he’s done amazing things getting us to the prem. but his stubbornness not to try other players, to bring Awoniyi on instead of having Simms who has scored I feel is costing us and it’s time for him to go!

I trust Frank Lampard's judgement, Simms was at Everton at the same time as Frank, it's not like he doesn't know him.

As for players like Grimes, he's just being loyal but that will only last for a short period of time.

 

[Cally Fedora]

Of course he’s not just being loyal. He’s picking what he considers is his strongest 11. He’s not a madman.

 

[coop]

How was that Newcastle game "all out attack", absolutely clueless

I was watching in Turkey and the game was back and forth,but it was 100 times more attacking that Saturday.We just need to be braver with the ball we never seem to hold onto it very long so lose momentum very easily.

 

[Grendel]

I was watching in Turkey and the game was back and forth,but it was 100 times more attacking that Saturday.We just need to be braver with the ball we never seem to hold onto it very long so lose momentum very easily.

We had 30% possession and 9 shots - Newcastle had 19 shots in the game

 

[wingy]

Who else was trying to pick up Gnobo when we came along and nabbed him,think he was in contract running down territory?

 

[shmmeee]

We finished 15 points ahead of Boro and 22 ponts ahead of Hull, unkess you've got some metric that you think is a better indicator than the league table.

Just because I said in case FP says it doesn’t mean you can say it

 

[shmmeee]

Ultimately plenty of managers have done well in the Championship and failed in the Prem just as plenty of players have. “Give him credit” makes as much sense for a manager as a player. It’s a big step up and you have to reckon with the possibility some people won’t make it however good they looked a level below. To just stick “we won the league” on repeat as an answer to all criticism and a reason to keep with someone player or manager is just silly.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Hes contributed 50 minutes in the league. Thats a fact.
You can try and spin that how you like.

Ive consistently said he has in his locker what we're missing, Lampard knows it. If hes match fit he should be playing more, even from the bench.

Hamer is the only player in our squad with any sort of track record of scoring and creating in the PL.
Give us a rational explanation as to why he's only played 50 minutes in the league given we are lacking creativity.

It may only be 50 minutes but what has he 'contributed' in that time?

So far when he's come on the opposition player seen to be passing around him with ease as he huffs and puffs his way around. He looks more knackered than the players that started. Take Fulham - he came on as a sub and his attempts to close down seemed to consist of light jogs towards players with the ball. Not what I'd call a press. If he'd made an impact in any of his appearances he'd have been given more time on the pitch than 50 mins.

So there's your rational explanation. He hasn't had an impact in the time he has had, And if you play him then you know you're going to have a tired player very quickly. If you started him he'd need subbing before half time. We're not an American sport where you can bring on players specially for set pieces and corners.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I particularly agree wih the part about the inferiority complex in the first paragraph. Whilst everyone knows it is a big step up, psychologically, there is a tipping point where it transforms from a realistic caution to motivate the players - into a repeated mantra that someone starts to subconciously believe.
Seeing them come out of the tunnel at The Emirates they all looked like rabbits in the headlights and now even 8 games on some of the players still do (you mention MVE and I'd also add Grimes EMC and Rushworth to that).
Perhaps the management have gone a bit overboard in creating the 'bogeyman', Hull haven't seemed to have the same problem.

I agree. I think the big thing is that they've got in the player's heads and now they think they're not good enough.

Somewhere where we needed Dr Roberts input.

 

[Skyblueabo1111]

Yeah because he’s wholly responsible for scouting and the signings.

Sure he played a major part. No?

 

[Sick Boy]

Ultimately plenty of managers have done well in the Championship and failed in the Prem just as plenty of players have. “Give him credit” makes as much sense for a manager as a player. It’s a big step up and you have to reckon with the possibility some people won’t make it however good they looked a level below. To just stick “we won the league” on repeat as an answer to all criticism and a reason to keep with someone player or manager is just silly.

To be fair, you’ve consistently got it wrong on Lampard since he came to the club - if it had been up to you, he’d have been sacked after a couple of months.

 

[Cally Fedora]

Ultimately plenty of managers have done well in the Championship and failed in the Prem just as plenty of players have. “Give him credit” makes as much sense for a manager as a player. It’s a big step up and you have to reckon with the possibility some people won’t make it however good they looked a level below. To just stick “we won the league” on repeat as an answer to all criticism and a reason to keep with someone player or manager is just silly.

Is it silly? Did Robins, Coleman, Boothroyd, Dowie, Thorn, Heath, Adams etc manage to get us promoted? What is silly us even thinking about getting rid of someone who has a proven record - at the club - because they are trying to pull off something very difficult.

 

[shmmeee]

Is it silly? Did Robins, Coleman, Boothroyd, Dowie, Thorn, Heath, Adams etc manage to get us promoted? What is silly us even thinking about getting rid of someone who has a proven record - at the club - because they are trying to pull off something very difficult.

Robins got us promoted twice?

 

[standupforcity]

His reluctance to start Torp worries me. He seems to have a blind spot. Torp produces every time he plays and you can feel the anticipation in the crowd.

 

[Skyblueabo1111]

His reluctance to start Torp worries me. He seems to have a blind spot. Torp produces every time he plays and you can feel the anticipation in the crowd.

Not just Torp.

 

[quinn1971]

His reluctance to start Torp worries me. He seems to have a blind spot. Torp produces every time he plays and you can feel the anticipation in the crowd.

I’m not sure torp coming in would solve our problems…we’d be saying the same about torp after a couple of games…it’s not surprising we are where we are the step up was massive and we’re starting 8 from last season .crying out for some help in January but not holding my breath based on our summer signings…need a huge improvement Saturday to at least show we’ve got a chance