Thorn Up To The Job? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
Basically...
Roy Keane's departure raised the question of whether great players make great managers.
there is no guarantee of great players = great managers
you do need to have a ruthless streak.
being a great player is no guarantee of being a great coach.
The personality needed to be a coach or assistant manager is a lot different to that of a manager.
coaches and assistant managers can be a lot more approachable and friendly towards the players - they don't have to distance themselves from the players, as a manager tends to do.
Darren Ferguson is somebody with a hard act to follow!
He instantly lifted the players with his professional manner. He has a very attacking philosophy and encouraged the players to express themselves.
The intensity and quality of the training sessions instantly improved.
It was hard work (as it should be) but we rapidly became a lot fitter and, as a consequence, a lot more confident.
The main aspect of Darren Ferguson's personality that I respected and one that will serve him well in the future is his honesty towards his players. The one thing that every player will tell you that they want from the manager (apart from playing every week) is honesty.
Lots of managers will tell a player what they think he wants to hear or in some cases not speak to a player at all. When I was out of the team at Peterborough.
Roy Keane's departure raised the question of whether great players make great managers.
there is no guarantee of great players = great managers
you do need to have a ruthless streak.
being a great player is no guarantee of being a great coach.
The personality needed to be a coach or assistant manager is a lot different to that of a manager.
coaches and assistant managers can be a lot more approachable and friendly towards the players - they don't have to distance themselves from the players, as a manager tends to do.
Darren Ferguson is somebody with a hard act to follow!
He instantly lifted the players with his professional manner. He has a very attacking philosophy and encouraged the players to express themselves.
The intensity and quality of the training sessions instantly improved.
It was hard work (as it should be) but we rapidly became a lot fitter and, as a consequence, a lot more confident.
The main aspect of Darren Ferguson's personality that I respected and one that will serve him well in the future is his honesty towards his players. The one thing that every player will tell you that they want from the manager (apart from playing every week) is honesty.
Lots of managers will tell a player what they think he wants to hear or in some cases not speak to a player at all. When I was out of the team at Peterborough.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I agree and I have explained both in depth on numerous times. However I can only say why I think he will be a decent manager with the right support. Which he seems to getting now. SISU could not do damage to the team thorn was managing in his first ten games. He was successful then.
skyblueman
New Member
The way I see it a good manager does the absolute very best with whatever resources he has at his disposal whatever the constraints imposed on him - same as any manger when you think about it really - he has to get the best from whatever he has - simple as that - in normal walks of life it's no different really. Forget all the stuff imposed on him.
Can we say in all honesty that AT did the best last season with what he had? Did the players play as well they might, were the preparations as good as it could be? Were the tactics right? Sure the odd mistake now and again is fine - we all do it - but overall did he make the very best of what he had?
Can we say in all honesty that AT did the best last season with what he had? Did the players play as well they might, were the preparations as good as it could be? Were the tactics right? Sure the odd mistake now and again is fine - we all do it - but overall did he make the very best of what he had?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You have an interesting definition of success;
Lower points in first 10 games than Boothroyd
7 games out of the 10 not won
Worse record than Peter Reid
What's your definition of failure? Mine was last season,
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
What was the record if the plummeting team in the 17 games before he stepped in. Somestimes when you take something from a horrendous situation and put it in an acceptable situation that is a success it is all relative.
Like someone achieving success in their first 10 games. Then freefull without any changes to your team
so last season then...success or failure - overall?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Why does it have to me classified as either? Maybe the third option might be... served up a result proportionate with investment and resource. Therefore ambivalent conclusion?
skyblueman
New Member
That's right MMM there is a 3rd option - doing the best with what you have - but DID he? That's what I'm struggling with
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Well it's been widely discussed that our funding of the first team squad was within the lowest two on the league. And we were compelled to play, therefore, more untried under 20's than any other team in the league. Indeed by appearances 50% more than the next closest.
As such, I can't help but think that Thorn served up that which circumstances deserved. Sure, we were exceptionally poor away from home, don't defend corners well and struggled to find the net; which are all valid observations and talking points - but the core debate being that Thorn realised a result consummate with investment. No more, no less.
That's why I'm personally still unsure about the man
Diehard Si
New Member
There are managers out there that could have done better. Can we afford them? .... Nope.
There are managers out there that would have done a lot worse.
We won't really know the answer until this season is underway.
skyblueman
New Member
Fair enough - I just worry about how well the team is motivated and obviously more than a few dubious tactics over the past season - but motivation is the BIG one for me - they just don't seem hungry enough for success
Colonel Mustard
New Member
A somewhat bogus argument. Managers are something of a lottery pick more often than not. The two most successful managers we've had over the past decade - Nilsson and Black - were both internal appointments, i.e. affordable.
Correct.
This has been the case since AT was appointed.
Sisu employ who they like. AT isn't there for footballing reasons but to absorb the flack that should be directed at them.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
To form such a judgement you must know an awful lot about the financial structure of the club.
You clearly know the wage thorn receives from the club and you must also know the compensation package of he is dismissed.
You also must know the wage demands of any potential manager that comes in.
You must also know the budget set aside for football related management staff and if this can be transferable for the playing budget. So if we sell wood say. An those wages be used for compensation to another club?
I assume you also k ow the wages Shaw and Carsley get and if this is less than received by Harrisom.
You need to know all this to arrive at your conclusion. Will you share it with us?
Astute
Well-Known Member
You know the same amount about what goes on at our club Duffy, but know everything is the fault of AT
cloughie
Well-Known Member
But I thought it was Grendell that posted not Kduffy
Oh I am confused surely he couldn't have changed his name............
Why would someone do that?????????????? :thinking about:
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Still impressed only 51% knee jerkers
Marty
Well-Known Member
I still can't believe 3 in 10 still think he might have a clue
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Really the I don't know should be the highest.
As this should be the time to judge. Especially with a couple more signings.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Why is the term "knee-jerk" even being thrown about? The bloke's been in charge for over a year.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I know it's hilarious. I've been convinced he's an idiot since his appointment. His deeds have yet to prove me wrong.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Yes and when we were relegated the majority in a much bigger poll said AT was the right man to take us up.
This poll was set up after a 4 - 1 defeat to Wrexham.
So I was expecting a load of knee jerk reactions to that. However it is only 51% half of which (total) guess would have voted no anyway. The other 25 % probably had enough after that result. So to me they are the knee jerkers.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Most of the polls have been extremely favourable to Thorn since he took the reins, so any change is significant. Or, by your own standards, ask yourself this question: would there have been the same polling numbers after a similar pre-season loss at this point last season?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Did you think it from day one?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes I did. I never wanted him appointed full time.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
No, those who were prepared to give him this season or even just ten games, who would have have reacted no after defeat. Would probably had voted don't know on the basis of the relegation. If that makes sense.
Ie last summer they would not have voted no, this summer it would have been don't no, after that defeat they have changed to no.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The players had clearly fell out with Boothroyd. His departure was always going to provide an improvement. The improvement to 30% win ratio was par for when Boothroyd was performing. Thorn had no pedigree, no previous managerial aspiration and was yet another Ranson chum. In short I never warmed to him and never viewed him as anything other than a stop gap.
the squad had discipline and had been well drilled by Aidy Boothroyd. haven't seen that discipline present at all since last season started.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Would you have prefered boothroyd not to have been sacked.
