Thorn Up To The Job? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Yep, I have said they should be done often so that we can see which way people are swaying. I am personally happy in 3 months time when we are hammering the league to say I think he is up to the job and I am wrong
Apologies read this after my last post. Can't argue with that.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
call me cynical nick, but the timing of the poll is questionable. After the result that also counts for nothing against Hinckley there was no poll.
Come off it I've never seen so much anti thorn stuff on here looks like supporters have woken up to reality at last.
Nick
Administrator
call me cynical nick, but the timing of the poll is questionable. After the result that also counts for nothing against Hinckley there was no poll.
I only made it because somebody asked if more people were Anti Thorn now. Feel free to make one 2 months into the season?
Dan Griffin
New Member
For now, willing to give his side 10 games, everyone should tbh
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
And if we win 4 nil next week, I take it you expect similar poll results.
People are rightly shocked and angry that we were spanked by Wrexham.
If he has lost the dressing room and that is the reason then fair enough.
However I am more if the thinking that it is due to a linesman flagging for the first. Then a penalty for the second.
Edge not been up to scratch and not a left back.
Players getting used to each other and match fit.
Hopefully wood and hussey are going nowhere and this result will soon be forgotten
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Way too late if anything
SkyBlueUkeman
New Member
I'm not making any real judgements till the league.
But still... 4-1 IN A FRIENDLY AGAINST WREXHAM!? WHAT THE FUCKITY FUCK THORN!?
But still... 4-1 IN A FRIENDLY AGAINST WREXHAM!? WHAT THE FUCKITY FUCK THORN!?
skyblueman
New Member
I only made it because somebody asked if more people were Anti Thorn now. Feel free to make one 2 months into the season?
Nick can we have another poll for realistic alternative managers? Plenty of Anti Thorners on here but not seeing much in the way of constructive alternatives
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Nick when people say. I only post under one name, nick can verify this. Is that correct.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Only 54 % of people think at is not the man for the job. This immediately after we were spanked 4 - 1 by Wrexham.
Must say my faith in common sense has been restored, thought there would be a massive knee jerk reaction and this would be about 80 %.
Personaly I think the I don't know camp are right.
This us the time to judge him. Now he has been free to make some signings.
Must say my faith in common sense has been restored, thought there would be a massive knee jerk reaction and this would be about 80 %.
Personaly I think the I don't know camp are right.
This us the time to judge him. Now he has been free to make some signings.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Let's see what it is we we start losing a league game or two. Seems the majority want The Clueless One out. Yet I am a lone voice apparantly. Even I haven't got 60 identities.
skyblueman
New Member
Look in the other thread then where there are a few listed
Only a few people made any sensible suggestions though - it's interesting that for all the Thorn out talk there is little in the way of constructive alternative offered
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
70 identities.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
If I could qualifty your statement for accuracy, dear chap, a marginal majority of people who could be motivated to vote on a particular forum with regards a poll that was timed just after a poor run of form voted so.
If the same poll had taken place just after the Hinckley game, I suggest a different result would have manifested itself. But we didn't have one then, did we. Wonder why?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Just a coincidence I am sure
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Ha ha, politics
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Indeed so. Motivated by tidal ebbs and flows, lunar phases, etc and not the product of skewed Machiavellianism, I'm sure
Nick
Administrator
It is still interesting that for the Thorn In talk only Nonleague has explained why he thinks Thorn is a decent manager...
skybluedaze
New Member
I think he'll just about survive in League 1. I do like him but think he's had his time. For the future of Coventry City Football Club he needs to go, mainly because he'll forever be linked to the clubs relegation from the Championship. A new manager will give the club a much needed lift.
This is interesting.. The Yes/No/DK question is nice and simple, and as another member(s) points out, to examine it longitudinally would help us to appreciate how opinion shifts over time. I wonder if you can capture regular snapshots then compare the data.
Is it possible to develop a more complex poll or survey, that clarifies the basis behind people's answers? my reason for asking is that many people's true answers would be "no, but" or "yes, but". I think it would be worthwhile mapping out peoples overall satisfaction towards the club, and model this relationship against a number of independent variables (everything from ticket price down to the managerial staff).
Since there are probably hundreds of users on this site (many whom understand the workings of the club and its history) it could provide a reliable source on information on fans opinions. I'm not saying that anyone involved with the club would read the forum - but many posts on here are aimed at lobbying an issue, or rallying support around a particular cause. Imagine if a survey of 200 users showed that there was dwindling satisfaction in the club, and that some analysis of these variables showed that Thorn was the primary contributing factor to this. Or imagine if there was no statistically significant relationship between Thorn and overall feeling to the club.
Sorry to bang on...I'm a research/statistician and the poll made me think there might be opportunity to investigate this. My feeling towards the club after 20 years are lower than ever but my personal reasons for this are down to several things, am sure this is the case for many.
Anyway just a thought. PUSB
Is it possible to develop a more complex poll or survey, that clarifies the basis behind people's answers? my reason for asking is that many people's true answers would be "no, but" or "yes, but". I think it would be worthwhile mapping out peoples overall satisfaction towards the club, and model this relationship against a number of independent variables (everything from ticket price down to the managerial staff).
Since there are probably hundreds of users on this site (many whom understand the workings of the club and its history) it could provide a reliable source on information on fans opinions. I'm not saying that anyone involved with the club would read the forum - but many posts on here are aimed at lobbying an issue, or rallying support around a particular cause. Imagine if a survey of 200 users showed that there was dwindling satisfaction in the club, and that some analysis of these variables showed that Thorn was the primary contributing factor to this. Or imagine if there was no statistically significant relationship between Thorn and overall feeling to the club.
Sorry to bang on...I'm a research/statistician and the poll made me think there might be opportunity to investigate this. My feeling towards the club after 20 years are lower than ever but my personal reasons for this are down to several things, am sure this is the case for many.
Anyway just a thought. PUSB
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
People are bored generally with my posts. However they must be particularly bored with how many times I have explained why I think he must be given a chance.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
Why he should be given a chance and why he is a good football manager are different though...
We've been under a poor run of form since he started - we've never seen much else
skyblueman
New Member
Wish we didn't have the 'don't know option' - bit of a get out that one- would have liked to have seen a straight yes/no poll here
That's a fair point.
For those who don't know...this article makes interesting reading and could help you decide...
What makes a good manager by Gavin Strachan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/gavinstrachan/2008/12/what_makes_a_good_manager.html
What makes a good manager by Gavin Strachan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/gavinstrachan/2008/12/what_makes_a_good_manager.html
Roy Keane's departure from Sunderland has again raised the question of whether great players make great managers.
I think it is safe to say that there is no guarantee of anyone who has played the game to the highest standards being successful as managers and, indeed, there have been plenty of examples of such figures being overshadowed in the job by men whose own professional playing careers were more modest, if not virtually non-existent.
For someone like me, who has certainly not been a great player, that is quite a comforting thought!
Having said that, I am uncertain about whether I would like to pursue a career in management. Even though I am taking my coaching badges and genuinely enjoy coaching, I am not convinced that I have the personality needed to be a manager.
As someone who has gone through the experiences of being dropped (on a regular basis), told he is no longer part of the manager's plans and been in a crowded changing room with other players waiting anxiously to see if they are going to get offered a new contract or not, I appreciate the extent to which a manager is in control of people's livelihoods and needs to make decisions that are going to make him unpopular. I am not saying that you have to be heartless because as many managers have told me, these types of decisions are the hardest part of the job, but you do need to have a ruthless streak.
I think it is important to make the distinction between a good coach and a good manager. Much in the same way that being a great player is no guarantee of being a great manager, the same can be said of being a great coach. There have been many examples over the years of very good assistant managers stepping into the role of manager and not quite making the grade.
The personality needed to be a coach or assistant manager is a lot different to that of a manager. For example in my experiences, coaches and assistant managers can be a lot more approachable and friendly towards the players - they don't have to distance themselves from the players, as a manager tends to do. They join in with a lot of the "banter" that takes place in the dressing room. The big advantage for them is that although they have some input into the footballing decisions, they are not the ones who have to make them .Leaving them free to involve themselves in all the enjoyable aspects of team management.
At the moment, the coaching aspect is the side of the game that I feel my personality is most suited to but never say never!
If one day I do take the plunge into management, I would have no shortage of managers who have given me some guidelines. Of the 13 I have played for, I suppose the one who surprised me the most has to be Darren Ferguson. Now there is somebody with a hard act to follow!
When he first arrived at Peterborough United it was a bit of a shock to all of the players and I am quite certain, the fans as well. Darren was still playing at Wrexham. In fact I had played against him just a few months previously.
Like most players in this situation, my initial reaction was: How was this going to affect me? It could be argued that it was particularly pertinent for me to ask myself that question, given the perceived difficult periods in the relationship between our dads when they worked together at Aberdeen and Manchester United. I say perceived because I honestly don't know if there was a problem because it is not something me and my old man have ever spoken about.
The fact is that Darren was great for me, not to mention the other players.
He instantly lifted the players with his professional manner. He has a very attacking philosophy and encouraged the players to express themselves. The intensity and quality of the training sessions instantly improved. It was hard work (as it should be) but we rapidly became a lot fitter and, as a consequence, a lot more confident.
It sounds obvious but when you know you are fitter than the opposing team, it gives you great confidence. If I ever do manage a team, my players would do well to prepare themselves for being pushed to the limit in training. I will be the one with the stopwatch telling them that if they don't do the run in a certain time, they will be doing it again! I have had that said to me enough times!
The main aspect of Darren Ferguson's personality that I respected and one that will serve him well in the future is his honesty. By that I mean the honesty towards his players. The one thing that every player will tell you that they want from the manager (apart from playing every week) is honesty.
For example, lots of managers will tell a player what they think he wants to hear or in some cases not speak to a player at all. When I was out of the team at Peterborough, Darren always had the decency to explain the reasons to me and did not try to pull any wool over my eyes. Even if I did not agree, I respected him for taking the time to talk to me and encourage me to keep going.
I suppose it says much for Darren that I can speak so highly of him even though he got rid of me after a year! I genuinely hope Peterborough can achieve their ambitions with Darren at the helm, but they will do well to hang on to his services as he is destined for the top.
Finally, I cannot sign off this week without a comment about Notts County having returned to winning ways thanks to a 1-0 victory against Morecambe. We have been far from our best in recent weeks and have gone back to the basics in terms of what is needed to win football matches. By basics, I mean aspects of the game such as turning the opposition back four, winning tackles and working harder than the other team. We know we can still pass the ball better but it was imperative that we stopped the rot and got some points on the board.
I think it is safe to say that there is no guarantee of anyone who has played the game to the highest standards being successful as managers and, indeed, there have been plenty of examples of such figures being overshadowed in the job by men whose own professional playing careers were more modest, if not virtually non-existent.
For someone like me, who has certainly not been a great player, that is quite a comforting thought!
Having said that, I am uncertain about whether I would like to pursue a career in management. Even though I am taking my coaching badges and genuinely enjoy coaching, I am not convinced that I have the personality needed to be a manager.
As someone who has gone through the experiences of being dropped (on a regular basis), told he is no longer part of the manager's plans and been in a crowded changing room with other players waiting anxiously to see if they are going to get offered a new contract or not, I appreciate the extent to which a manager is in control of people's livelihoods and needs to make decisions that are going to make him unpopular. I am not saying that you have to be heartless because as many managers have told me, these types of decisions are the hardest part of the job, but you do need to have a ruthless streak.
I think it is important to make the distinction between a good coach and a good manager. Much in the same way that being a great player is no guarantee of being a great manager, the same can be said of being a great coach. There have been many examples over the years of very good assistant managers stepping into the role of manager and not quite making the grade.
The personality needed to be a coach or assistant manager is a lot different to that of a manager. For example in my experiences, coaches and assistant managers can be a lot more approachable and friendly towards the players - they don't have to distance themselves from the players, as a manager tends to do. They join in with a lot of the "banter" that takes place in the dressing room. The big advantage for them is that although they have some input into the footballing decisions, they are not the ones who have to make them .Leaving them free to involve themselves in all the enjoyable aspects of team management.
At the moment, the coaching aspect is the side of the game that I feel my personality is most suited to but never say never!
If one day I do take the plunge into management, I would have no shortage of managers who have given me some guidelines. Of the 13 I have played for, I suppose the one who surprised me the most has to be Darren Ferguson. Now there is somebody with a hard act to follow!
When he first arrived at Peterborough United it was a bit of a shock to all of the players and I am quite certain, the fans as well. Darren was still playing at Wrexham. In fact I had played against him just a few months previously.
Like most players in this situation, my initial reaction was: How was this going to affect me? It could be argued that it was particularly pertinent for me to ask myself that question, given the perceived difficult periods in the relationship between our dads when they worked together at Aberdeen and Manchester United. I say perceived because I honestly don't know if there was a problem because it is not something me and my old man have ever spoken about.
The fact is that Darren was great for me, not to mention the other players.
He instantly lifted the players with his professional manner. He has a very attacking philosophy and encouraged the players to express themselves. The intensity and quality of the training sessions instantly improved. It was hard work (as it should be) but we rapidly became a lot fitter and, as a consequence, a lot more confident.
It sounds obvious but when you know you are fitter than the opposing team, it gives you great confidence. If I ever do manage a team, my players would do well to prepare themselves for being pushed to the limit in training. I will be the one with the stopwatch telling them that if they don't do the run in a certain time, they will be doing it again! I have had that said to me enough times!
The main aspect of Darren Ferguson's personality that I respected and one that will serve him well in the future is his honesty. By that I mean the honesty towards his players. The one thing that every player will tell you that they want from the manager (apart from playing every week) is honesty.
For example, lots of managers will tell a player what they think he wants to hear or in some cases not speak to a player at all. When I was out of the team at Peterborough, Darren always had the decency to explain the reasons to me and did not try to pull any wool over my eyes. Even if I did not agree, I respected him for taking the time to talk to me and encourage me to keep going.
I suppose it says much for Darren that I can speak so highly of him even though he got rid of me after a year! I genuinely hope Peterborough can achieve their ambitions with Darren at the helm, but they will do well to hang on to his services as he is destined for the top.
Finally, I cannot sign off this week without a comment about Notts County having returned to winning ways thanks to a 1-0 victory against Morecambe. We have been far from our best in recent weeks and have gone back to the basics in terms of what is needed to win football matches. By basics, I mean aspects of the game such as turning the opposition back four, winning tackles and working harder than the other team. We know we can still pass the ball better but it was imperative that we stopped the rot and got some points on the board.
